Could this all be part of Harper's plan?

[jdobbin]

He'll roll out the budget in the throne speech. He'll keep away from the house until the 26th of January. If he can get an election out of this, he's in good shape.

You can't roll out the budget in a Throne Speech. Where did you hear that?

The Throne Speech has to be approved before the budget is presented.

Bill C-1 about respecting the oaths of office has to be passed before any further business.

Edited December 2, 2008 by jdobbin

[blueblood]

You can't roll out the budget in a Throne Speech. Where did you hear that?

On CTV, he won't officially roll it out. He'll probably make it an incredibly long and boring throne speech with lots of dollars being allocated to various places. For all intents and purposes it will be a budget.

[jdobbin]

On CTV, he won't officially roll it out. He'll probably make it an incredibly long and boring throne speech with lots of dollars being allocated to various places. For all intents and purposes it will be a budget.

No, it won't. It won't since it won't have the force of law such as economic statement or an actual budget bill.

C-1 is not a budget. It is a confidence motion though.

They can detail all they want but it is not a budget.

In any event, it will still be a defeat. I think the government would be hard pressed to go to the polls.

Edited December 2, 2008 by jdobbin

[blueblood]

No, it won't. It won't since it won't have the force of law such as economic statement or an actual budget bill.

C-1 is not a budget. It is a confidence motion though.

They can detail all they want but it is not a budget.

In any event, it will still be a defeat. I think the government would be hard pressed to go to the polls.

The idea is that it isn't supposed to pass, they will include all the details of the budget, but the gov't will be defeated on the throne speech. It will be like the SSM bill.

Why would they be hard pressed? An election they have a chance at returning to government, without one they are done for sure. There are a lot of pissed off people and the tories will use that to their advantage. The tories have nothing to lose by wanting to go to the polls.

[Vancouver King]

Here's an idea, you go to the same board of psychiatrists and have your pathalogical hatred of Conservatives examined, come away with a cleam bill of health, and you will be taken seriously.

What a stupid comment.

Lighten up - lol - there is a definite loss of humour among this forum's Tories.

[jdobbin]

The tories have nothing to lose by wanting to go to the polls.

They don't but it is not likely to happen two or three months after the last election if an alternative exists.

As some analysts are saying, if the Tories look like they are clinging to power or try to discredit the Governor General or to attack the BQ and Quebecers who support that party, they might not wear it well.

If we go to an election, Harper had better hope he gets a majority because if he does, the coalition is back again.

[Bryan]

I suppose. I can't see Harper's hand so I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. I just know he's a better poker player than I am.

Exactly. In politics as in poker, the best way to get your opponent to do something stupid is to appear weak when you're actually in a position of strength. The worse this looks for Harper, the more damage the Liberals will inflict on themselves.

[Smallc]

Exactly. In politics as in poker, the best way to get your opponent to do something stupid is to appear weak when you're actually in a position of strength. The worse this looks for Harper, the more damage the Liberals will inflict on themselves.

If Harper really is playing this game (I doubt it, I think he made a huge mistake) he's worse than I thought. I was behind him until last week. Now all I want is for him to be taken down a peg for playing games when he should have been working.

[blueblood]

If Harper really is playing this game (I doubt it, I think he made a huge mistake) he's worse than I thought. I was behind him until last week. Now all I want is for him to be taken down a peg for playing games when he should have been working.

He's made the opposition look like power hungry sellouts. He's made the opposition look like they only care about power. The Candian voters are seething at this coalition.

Harper is most likely going to hold a press conference and release a barrage of attack ads.

If this was poker and the opposition has went all in with a full house. One would wonder if Harper has the four of a kind.

[BC_chick]

He's made the opposition look like power hungry sellouts. He's made the opposition look like they only care about power. The Candian voters are seething at this coalition.

Harper is most likely going to hold a press conference and release a barrage of attack ads.

If this was poker and the opposition has went all in with a full house. One would wonder if Harper has the four of a kind.

I understand your anger blue, in all honesty, I do. But Harper pushed too far. If the LPC ever pulled off a stunt like this while in power, I would fully support the opposition for reacting the same way.

I know it's hard to see it when it's your team, but try and imagine how you would feel about a coalition government had the shoe been on the other foot.

[Bryan]

I understand your anger blue, in all honesty, I do. But Harper pushed too far. If the LPC ever pulled off a stunt like this while in power, I would fully support the opposition for reacting the same way.

What did he push too far? Cutting political welfare? They were the ones giving up the most by proposing it.

[mjp]

What did he push too far? Cutting political welfare? They were the ones giving up the most by proposing it.

this whole reason to cut that political welfare was to remove funding from the green party....lol

he does not like elizabeth may at all, and after the way she came at him in the debates making him look uninformed on many points, this is his way to trying to squash the greens

after all the money for the greens is about 80% of their funding..

it would effectively eliminate them from federal politics.

[Shakeyhands]

What did he push too far? Cutting political welfare? They were the ones giving up the most by proposing it.

I find it funny that all you CPC types keep talking about the funding issue. The other parties have made it very clear that this is about the economy and the CPC's lack of anything resembling anysort of a plan.

If Harper had said " We're waiting to see what the US does" as the tail can't wag the dog, I would jhave said that makes sense. But he'd rather play games and petty little partisan stunts such as making supporters agree that it is about the $1.95.

Talk about disingenious.

[blueblood]

I understand your anger blue, in all honesty, I do. But Harper pushed too far. If the LPC ever pulled off a stunt like this while in power, I would fully support the opposition for reacting the same way.

I know it's hard to see it when it's your team, but try and imagine how you would feel about a coalition government had the shoe been on the other foot.

I'm not as mad as some posters not on here. I'm calling it like I see it. I'd rather the tories not hold the bag for what happens to the economy during a recession. THis also makes the next election campaign a lot easier.

I would be really po'd if the tories made a coalition gov't with the BQ, the last time something like that happened the reform party got created.

[blueblood]

I find it funny that all you CPC types keep talking about the funding issue. The other parties have made it very clear that this is about the economy and the CPC's lack of anything resembling anysort of a plan.

If Harper had said " We're waiting to see what the US does" as the tail can't wag the dog, I would jhave said that makes sense. But he'd rather play games and petty little partisan stunts such as making supporters agree that it is about the $1.95.

Talk about disingenious.

We're in tough economic times, why should our tax dollars go to funding parties when they can be spent on something else? Parties know how to raise money, let them do it themselves.

[Argus]

Harper has lost Québec. Too much like Duplessis. Can he win a majority without Québec?

The Liberals are about to lose everything west of Ontario. Can they ever win a majority without them?

[Argus]

If they prorogue Parliament, it is they that will look rather bad given the concerns going on in the country. By ending the session, they will have to do a Throne Speech where they will be defeated.

The country did not seem terribly concerned, knowing that incentives were coming in the budget. And those incentives would have been carefully crafted, while you guys are simply going to spray money around with a firehose (mostly directed at Quebec).

[Argus]

You can't roll out the budget in a Throne Speech. Where did you hear that?

The Throne Speech has to be approved before the budget is presented.

Bill C-1 about respecting the oaths of office has to be passed before any further business.

Doesn't really matter. If they make announcements in January about all their incentives, then you guys do your putsch thing regardless, it makes it all the more clear that it was solely about you grabbing power. I mean, that is pretty clear now, but it will be even harder to lie about it in January.

[Argus]

this whole reason to cut that political welfare was to remove funding from the green party....lol

he does not like elizabeth may at all, and after the way she came at him in the debates making him look uninformed on many points, this is his way to trying to squash the greens

after all the money for the greens is about 80% of their funding..

it would effectively eliminate them from federal politics.

May looked like a shrill, ill-mannered harpy in the debate, and probably did her party a huge disservice. The only people who like that sort of attitude are the young and ignorant, most of whom don't vote anyway, and none of whom, apparently, care enough to contribute anything to a political party.

[White Doors]

If Harper really is playing this game (I doubt it, I think he made a huge mistake) he's worse than I thought. I was behind him until last week. Now all I want is for him to be taken down a peg for playing games when he should have been working.

BS you were 'behind him' last week.

[Argus]

I find it funny that all you CPC types keep talking about the funding issue. The other parties have made it very clear that this is about the economy and the CPC's lack of anything resembling anysort of a plan.

You mean they stand in front of the cameras and lie through their teeth? And you believe that drivel?

I have not read or heard one single commentator from anywhere who believes this is about the economy. Can you find me one? Maybe the Star has one.

[jdobbin]

The country did not seem terribly concerned, knowing that incentives were coming in the budget. And those incentives would have been carefully crafted, while you guys are simply going to spray money around with a firehose (mostly directed at Quebec).

Harper intended another $300 million election after this budget so we know what their priorities are.

[jdobbin]

Doesn't really matter. If they make announcements in January about all their incentives, then you guys do your putsch thing regardless, it makes it all the more clear that it was solely about you grabbing power. I mean, that is pretty clear now, but it will be even harder to lie about it in January.

Yup. It is about taking away power from Harper because he doesn't retain the confidence of the Opposition.

[IMASINNER]

Harper intended another $300 million election after this budget so we know what their priorities are.

And I think he is going to get it.

Isn't a 300 million dollar election better than 30 billion. at least then you know what Canadians want.

[johhny]

Will Harper turtle? Will we see Harper hide with his tail between his legs for 8 weeks?

c'mon Harper - be a man, not a turtle!