SHOULD Canada break up?

[Fortunata]

That should be great for the economy!

http://thechronicleherald.ca/cponline/stories/n68138031.html

Cannon says: "This, Mr. Speaker, is not a scenario that is easy to explain to our allies and our partners who are striving mightily to achieve economic prosperity through political stability."

Whose fault exactly is that? I am still waiting for the CPC to take responsibility for our little crisis here. But no, it seems to be the fault of the Libs, NDP and Bloc because they didn't want to just lean over and take it any more.

If Harper resigned (and took Flaherty with him) there is an opportunity to avert this mess. What's the chances of that happening? Harper would rather take Canada down than admit he was wrong and stepped down to make amends.

[bluegreen]

Then you must be too young to remember the Quebec referendums, FLQ crisis, the formation of the bloc. NEP.....

Now you're making me feel old, as I remember, and lived through all those as an anglo quebecker. ( Actually, when the Conservative Party splintered into the Bloc, I was happily ensconced in Toronto)

The article is CPC Spin. Most foreigners are either used to far more macchiavellian Parliamentary splits, or if they're Americans politely (dis)interested in their neighbours strange political system. I'd cite sources in the US press, but frankly they're all pretty banal, and not worth pursuing.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Can someone please tell me why Alberta or BC should stay in confederation?

Really. Why should they?

Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged thread; old OP title: "ALberta BC Sask"

[jdobbin]

Can someone please tell me why Alberta or BC should stay in confederation?

Really. Why should they?

Because the people there want to?

[mjp]

because it would take a referendum in each province, and that is only put forth by the gov't of the day.

and the current gov'ts of the day would not do it.

each province would need their own separatist party for it to work. and the separatist parties would need to become the governing parties in each province.

that takes years, not weeks.

[kimmy]

Well, if Alberta went it alone, it would be a land-locked country dependent on its neighbors for all of its transportation and export needs.

And if Alberta joined with BC, then they'd have to put up Greater Vancouver having near majority share of voting power, and I don't think anybody in Alberta wants that to happen. Vancouver politics is just loco.

-k

[blueblood]

Well, if Alberta went it alone, it would be a land-locked country dependent on its neighbors for all of its transportation and export needs.

And if Alberta joined with BC, then they'd have to put up Greater Vancouver having near majority share of voting power, and I don't think anybody in Alberta wants that to happen. Vancouver politics is just loco.

-k

For arguments sake, you can always go east to MB and get the bay that comes with it...

[mjp]

http://www.westernblockparty.com/

been around for a while...

[fellowtraveller]

For arguments sake, you can always go east to MB and get the bay that comes with it...

Right, just what Alberta needs, a couple of million people depending on welfare, as they do now.

Maybe it wouldn';t be much of a change....

[blueblood]

Right, just what Alberta needs, a couple of million people depending on welfare, as they do now.

Maybe it wouldn';t be much of a change....

Western MB is rich, Southern MB is rich, Northern MB is about to be rich, Central Manitoba is still a basket case, Eastern Manitoba is a gong show, Winnipeg is split. For this exercise, you only get 1 million and a good portion would already play ball. BC is a whole other can of worms.

[Wilber]

Well, if Alberta went it alone, it would be a land-locked country dependent on its neighbors for all of its transportation and export needs.

And if Alberta joined with BC, then they'd have to put up Greater Vancouver having near majority share of voting power, and I don't think anybody in Alberta wants that to happen. Vancouver politics is just loco.

-k

Don't fret kimmy, Greater Vancouver doesn't even have a majority in BC. BC rarely elects socialist governments and when they do, they don't last long. The CPC still got 22 out of 36 seats in the last election.

[Smallc]

All I can say is that if you're contemplating leaving Canada, you never really cared about it in the first place and you don't understand how great Canada is.

[Smallc]

Right, just what Alberta needs, a couple of million people depending on welfare, as they do now.

Maybe it wouldn';t be much of a change....

So what then, if BC falls below the line (as they do from time to time) and they need help, you throw them out? What if Saskatchewan falls below the line again (as it very well may). Do you toss them out? What if oil goes to $20 a barrel (as the talk is right now. What do you do then?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Well, if Alberta went it alone, it would be a land-locked country dependent on its neighbors for all of its transportation and export needs.

And if Alberta joined with BC, then they'd have to put up Greater Vancouver having near majority share of voting power, and I don't think anybody in Alberta wants that to happen. Vancouver politics is just loco.

-k

I think greater vancouver makes up about the same population as edmonton and clagary combined, so no it wouldn't be controlled by vancouver.

plus, central van isquite liberal or NDP, but the suburbs are all pretty conservative. combine that with the conservative okanagan and alberta and you've got a pretty good balance.

Someone wrote as a reply "because people there want to stay in Canada"

Let me be clear on the question: what are the benefits to the BC alberta sask block to staying?

[Smallc]

Let me be clear on the question: what are the benefits to the BC alberta sask block to staying?

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

Read more about this place than that even.

Canada is simply amazing. There are too many things that are so good about this country for me to be able to put them into words. I know the west is mad because it has to support other places, but you have to understand that this is how the country works and this is how it has worked for a long time. just because region is down or just because a region doesn't have s much, we don't leave them behind. We help them to make ends meet. We make sure that as few as possible go without in this country.

For the west, being part of this...place...the amazing idea that is this country should be more than enough of a reward. This country is more than money or politics. Its more than a collection of regions. All you have to do is realize how great this country is and it should become clear.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

Read more about this place than that even.

Canada is simply amazing. There are too many things that are so good about this country for me to be able to put them into words. I know the west is mad because it has to support other places, but you have to understand that this is how the country works and this is how it has worked for a long time. just because region is down or just because a region doesn't have s much, we don't leave them behind. We help them to make ends meet. We make sure that as few as possible go without in this country.

For the west, being part of this...place...the amazing idea that is this country should be more than enough of a reward. This country is more than money or politics. Its more than a collection of regions. All you have to do is realize how great this country is and it should become clear.

? huh ?

No. You didn't say anything. You just tried to pull out a bunch of nonsensical emotional heartstring hogwash - which by the way is the relied upon and predictable answer most people use when they don't have an answer to a direct question.

So I ask it again, in plain english.

What are the benefits (from a western perspective) to staying in Canada. We all know the benefits to Ontario: you control it the purse strings and the power.

We all know the benefits to the maritimes and quebec (and soon Ontario): you get handouts.

But what is are the benefits to the west?

[Alberta_Blue]

So what then, if BC falls below the line (as they do from time to time) and they need help, you throw them out? What if Saskatchewan falls below the line again (as it very well may). Do you toss them out? What if oil goes to $20 a barrel (as the talk is right now. What do you do then?

the only thing that can truly hurt us out here is if oil went to $20/bbl... now having said that, if oil gets that low, ALL of North America suffers, let alone Canada, let alone if the west separates

and a separation wouldn't happen right away, it would take time, and hopefully with the time it takes to separate, the world economy will be a bit more stable.

having said all that, SK has 10billion estimated barrels of oil they are sitting on, top that up with alberta, and you're talking 2 of the richest provinces in all of Canada, SK is just not tapped into their economic boom yet, ...having said that, they have elected a new gov't, and got rid of the old gov't, which was an NDP by the way of the last 34 years, and now with a CONSERVATIVE gov't in place, they have struck a deal with the Natives to explore and prosper SK and make them a viable province to live in... so having said all that, within 10 years SK is going to be a very high potential wealth province, if it doesn't achieve it sooner... so AB, SK alone will be 2 dominant forces on the canadian economic landscape, if the west doesn't separate...

and BC brings is a retirement ground for rich albertans, a place to vacation close to home, and they got the ocean, oh ya, and forestry, if that ever takes off again.. but i love BC, and so does everyone out west, and pretty sure BC loves Alberta, because most of their employment out in BC stimulates from Alberta with their ports and head offices, plus they do contribute different types of mining up north..

basically, when its all said and done, the only thing all BC, SK, AB would need is manufacturing, which we could invest that into manitoba, and make manitoba the new ONT, but at least they'd be happy

[Smallc]

? huh ?

There's no talking to you then. Its obvious that you don't care for Canada and have no sense of patriotism. You don't understand what it is to love a country so much that you would die to keep it together. I really don't care to argue with you.

Oh, and Ontario isn't getting handouts. They're getting back a very small percentage of what thy contribute every year.

[JerrySeinfeld]

basically, when its all said and done, the only thing all BC, SK, AB would need is manufacturing, which we could invest that into manitoba, and make manitoba the new ONT, but at least they'd be happy

We've got CHINA to do the manufacturing - on the cheap! No more protectionist union friendly tariffs designed to "create" (ie. prop up) obsolete, overpaid CAW jobs in the 905!!! can you say "FREAKING AWESOME'!!!!!?

Instead, a true trade environment - our abundand natural resources without artificial poseur-style enviro restrictions - again imposed by elitist slef-important quebec style politicians - in exchange for china's cheap manufactured goods.

Sianara overpriced union made Ontarian goods and their comensurate trade tariffs! Hello wealthy western republic of wealth, liberty and self-detrmination.

Heck - if a bunch of republics can self-establish in nasty parts of the world like the former USSR and e4astern europe, surely we could do it here in peacful benign old Canada.

Self-determination of small nation states is a fad - a trend around the world. It's EASY.

There is only one embarassingly UNsuccessful secession movement these days around the world: Quebec. Why? They certainly could separate if they meant it. But they don't. It's all bullshit., They benefit from this perverse dominion. WE, on the other hand, DO NOT.

Nobody, not one person, has yet to answer the question. WHat are the benefits?

Edited December 4, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[JerrySeinfeld]

There's no talking to you then. Its obvious that you don't care for Canada and have no sense of patriotism. You don't understand what it is to love a country so much that you would die to keep it together. I really don't care to argue with you.

No. I don't. That's the point. That's what happens when you're on the losing end of abuse decade after decade my friend. Get it? I don't love this country, I hate it. It's a disgusting, despicable trough of power and greed in which the central and eastern Canadian provinces feed at our expense. That's become obvious. Clear enough for ya?

Oh, and Ontario isn't getting handouts. They're getting back a very small percentage of what thy contribute every year.

Good for ontario. As reagan famously said: "this should be a country that has a government, not a government that has a country."

For far too long it's been the latter in THIS country.

Ontario is a PROVINCE that has GOVERNMENT that has a country.

Despicable.

Edited December 4, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[Smallc]

No. I don't. That's the point. That's what happens when you're on the losing end of abuse decade after decade my friend. Get it? I don't love this country, I hate it.

Well too bad for you.

Despicable.

The country and Ontario aren't the ones that are despicable.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Well too bad for you.

The country and Ontario aren't the ones that are despicable.

Look. Let's take emotion out of this. I just think it would be best for all if we split things up.

There is no viable, economic, political reason for the West to stay in confederation that outweighs the benefits of leaving. Period.

That should be enough. Simply saying "we're staying because we're already here" isn't an argument,.

[Alberta_Blue]

Well too bad for you.

The country and Ontario aren't the ones that are despicable.

its not the country, its the liberals, and more so, the french liberals

[guyser]

No. I don't. That's the point. That's what happens when you're on the losing end of abuse decade after decade my friend. Get it? I don't love this country, I hate it.

You are too stupid to know how good this country is.

So you dont like it, and like a family it means you move,not the family.

[mjp]

fact is people dont understand how much work it is to seperate from the country.

why do you think quebec never left?

There are over 1000 functions that would have to be taken over by the seperated federal gov't. and leaving would also mean that those provinces would have to take part of the national debt. Although, I'm sure we could pay it off without a problem.

its just setting up all those new agencies and hiring employees.