Coalition Government

[August1991]

The NDP and Bloc have long talked about a coalition. The Bloc won't be part of this coalition but it doesn't mean they won't take this time to throw Harper off the cliff.

The NDP and Bloc talk about a coalition? What planet are you living on?

The Bloc has a very specific agenda and I'm betting that the Bloc will side with the devil it knows rather than the devil it doesn't.

I'm also betting that Harper understands all these various calculations well.

----

Dobbin, I don't have access to polls anymore than you do, and my own insights can be wrong too.

Most Canadians do not follow politics on a day to day basis. For these people, this talk of a coalition government has the feel of student politics. For those in the thick of it, the perception is different. That's why I think some people are going to realize that they have made utter fools of themselves these past few days.

[madmax]

Looks like the NDP and the Bloc were cooking up a deal even before the economic statement was released.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

If this report is true, what despicable behaviour by Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe.

This whole coalition business is playing into the hands of the separatists. Are we in good hands or what.

Parties talk shop all the time. Interesting to know that the CPC participated in the conference call. That is an act of desperation. Why should any of this surprise you?

[punked]

So Bob will be the go to guy of the Conservative backroom this week. I am shocked. Incredibly, we learn from Bob that the NDP and the Bloc speak on the telephone thingys up there in Ottawa. Shocking stuff, this: "NDP, Bloc in coalition talks before fiscal update: tape." I'm partly sarcastic here, partly greatly ticked at the methods used here by the Conservatives. Barging in on an NDP conference call and taping it? This appears to be what the Conservatives did. So welcome to Harper's Canada where apparently hatchet thingys invade other party telephone calls, tape them and distribute to the media. Doesn't feel like my Canada. Feels like Nixon's or Rove's U.S.

Secondly...and? It's news that the NDP and Bloc have been speaking? In a minority parliament? How scandalous. The other parties outnumber the Conservatives and if the Conservatives aren't acting in a manner that the other parties agree with...then such discussions are entirely appropriate. It's appropriate to explore at any moment and lay the groundwork for alternatives in an inherently fragile parliament, which, contrary to Conservative spinning, it is.

Thirdly, desperate times apparently call for desperate measures. The Conservatives are spending their time plotting dirty tricks against opposition parties, not governing. Attempting to inflame Canadians. Very telling. Let them keep showing how they operate. The opposition should keep talking issues, deal with the distractions but keep this sideshow stuff in its proper place.

Fourthly, I wonder what a Conservative conference call sounds like? Oh to be a fly on the wall listening in on those discussions at the moment...something to keep in mind if you hear any tapes of party phone calls today.

From http://impolitical.blogspot.com/2008/11/br...ourtesy-of.html

[madmax]

Thirdly, desperate times apparently call for desperate measures. The Conservatives are spending their time plotting dirty tricks against opposition parties,

Well, I would say listening to a conference call is dirty. But publicly telling people that you did just that, is rather.... I dunno.... stupid?

Here is how it looks.

CTV News is reporting that NDP Leader Jack Layton can be heard on the tapes boasting to his caucus that he had prepared scenarios to bring down the government with the help of the Bloc Quebecois well before the Conservatives issued their recent economic statement.

A spokesman for the New Democrats says there is no difference between the latest NDP-Bloc discussions and similar talks aimed at bringing down the Liberal minority government in 2004.

Stephen Harper, who was leader of the Opposition at that time, held lengthy discussions with Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe aimed at supplanting Paul Martin's Liberal government without an election in the fall of 2004.

Yeah think?

quick edit, the votes keep on coming. The anti coalition forces made huge gains today, closing up the gap the coalition forces made yesterday. While I think the news of today should inspire more anti coalition votes, so far, the coalition numbers have just started upwards again.

This is no where near over. Still 8 days to go

53 votes, $1.95 per vote is not being paid to any political party or party hack on these forums

Edited November 30, 2008 by madmax

[Argus]

Looks like the NDP and the Bloc were cooking up a deal even before the economic statement was released.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

If this report is true, what despicable behaviour by Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe.

This whole coalition business is playing into the hands of the separatists. Are we in good hands or what.

Edit to add. Harper warned something like this would happen. I'll see if I can find the link.

Layton has never had a problem with separatists. He had candidates in Quebec last election who were openly separatist, and some noted NDP types were advising Quebecers to vote for the BQ in order to keep Harper out.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Argus

[punked]

Layton has never had a no problem with separatists. He had candidates in Quebec last election who were openly separatist, and some noted NDP types were advising Quebecers to vote for the BQ in order to keep Harper out.

Yah doesn't he look stuipd now. You know that Harper is caving to his every demand. What a terrible politician.

[capricorn]

Parties talk shop all the time.

madmax, I know what you're saying. But planning a coalition to replace the ruling government is more than talking shop in my books.

Interesting to know that the CPC participated in the conference call.

The article says "Conservative member". I don't know that this means a representative of the Conservative Party or something else. I'd like more information on this. Who taped this conference call and who leaked it?

That is an act of desperation. Why should any of this surprise you?

Hey, like others on this thread, I'm just having fun in this tempest in a teacup.

[capricorn]

Well, I would say listening to a conference call is dirty. But publicly telling people that you did just that, is rather.... I dunno.... stupid?

Wouldn't it be a hoot if it was revealed the one taping the call wasn't even a Conservative? Stranger things have happened.

[scribblet]

Layton has proven himself to be scum, and the others. This is an undemocratic coup, nothing else.

[punked]

Layton has proven himself to be scum, and the others. This is an undemocratic coup, nothing else.

Thanks for adding..............nothing.

[Oleg Bach]

The tempest in the tea cup can have the effect of splashing all the tea on the floor. We may lose the tea and cup. This situation shows the weakness and vulnerablity of our system as it now stands. It's internationally embarassing. Power for powers sake is disgraceful and ignoble.

[johhny]

Did someone say tape? The one Harper claimed to be doctor'd, stupid is can't even remember what he said. He would not Lie to us would he?

[johhny]

Harper's Conservatives wanted Canada to join the war in Iraq

[August1991]

Eh bien...

«Il se passera des choses à Ottawa le 8, on va renverser Harper le 8!» Le chef du Bloc québécois, Gilles Duceppe, n'a laissé aucun doute hier sur son intention d'appuyer une éventuelle coalition entre le Parti libéral du Canada et le Nouveau Parti démocratique afin de faire tomber le gouvernement conservateur minoritaire.

De passage à Québec afin de donner son appui à la candidate péquiste Françoise Mercure dans Louis-Hébert, Duceppe ne pouvait pas passer à côté des discussions qui se déroulent présentement à Ottawa.

«Il y a présentement des discussions entre les équipes libérale et néo-démocrate et je suis confiant qu'on en arrive à un terrain d'entente avec un gouvernement de coalition», a déclaré le chef bloquiste, qui assure que son parti n'a pas l'intention de changer d'idée, car le lien de confiance est brisé avec le gouvernement Harper.

«Le fait que le gouvernement ait annoncé qu'il revenait sur sa décision de couper les subventions aux partis politiques n'y change rien. M. Harper n'agit pas comme ça car la lumière lui est venue, c'est plutôt la peur qui s'approche», a-t-il poursuivi, signalant que les partis d'opposition représentaient le vote de 67 % des Canadiens.

Le Soleil

I would never have predicted this.

I suppose that Duceppe has made the calculation that he would rather see Dion or some other Liberal in 24 Sussex than Harper.

Duceppe is the key player here and this may be an opening gambit but his statement seems categorical.

[Oleg Bach]

Did someone say tape? The one Harper claimed to be doctor'd, stupid is can't even remember what he said. He would not Lie to us would he?

There job is to lie - ALL political power hides in the santuary of deception. That's how an unfaithful wife or husband attempt to control - by consistant and relentless lieing. In the end all is forgiven and we will forgive the liars one more time. Who cares if Harper lies - would you rather have Layton running about telling the truth to our detriment?

[madmax]

Hey, like others on this thread, I'm just having fun in this tempest in a teacup.

It just keeps building intrigue.

How was this described earlier this weekend? "Hurricane on a spoon". It doesn't get any better. And I think those closer to the action, may not be feeling as glib as you or my while the ball goes up and downfield.

I will give the CPC 10 yards for the conference call. 1st Down.

Ah, crap...edited.... (If there turns out to be something illegal about listening into the call, or it was done by an MP, there may be a foul called.) Not yet though.

Edited November 30, 2008 by madmax

[johhny]

That's how an unfaithful wife or husband attempt to control - by consistant and relentless lieing. In the end all is forgiven and we will forgive the liars one more time.

Not me I would take the house and all teh assets, an never have nothing do to with em again

[madmax]

Layton has proven himself to be scum, and the others. This is an undemocratic coup, nothing else.

You do know there is an entire script and talking points available for you. You have to do better then this, the only words I can attribute to you are "Scum". The entire list of CPC talking points is rather long. We deserve better

Here are some of the talking points to help you through this thread courtesy of your party

Quote:

* We're not even two months removed from the last election, and a group of backroom politicians are going to pick who the Prime Minister is. Canadians didn't vote for this person. We don't even know who this person will be.

* Not a single voter voted for a Liberal-NDP coalition. Certainly not a single voter voted for the Liberals to form a coalition with the separatists in the Bloc.

* This is what bothers me the most. The Conservatives won the election. The Opposition keeps saying that the Conservatives have to respect the will of the voters that this is a minority and so on.

* ...how about Liberals, NDP and Bloc respecting the will of the voters when they said "YOU LOSE".

* And what's this going to do to the economy. I'm sorry, I don't care how desperate the Liberals are - giving socialists (Jack Layton) and separatists (Gilles Duceppe) a veto over every decision in government - that is a recipe for total economic disaster.

* But how more phony could these guys be?

* I mean, I follow the news, virtually every single day you have Harper or Flaherty out there telegraphing exactly what they plan to do with the economy. And not once did you hear the Liberals, NDP or separatists talking about toppling the government in response.

* No - do you know what set this off. When Flaherty said he was going to take taxpayer-funded subsidies away from the opposition. Now there is a reason to try and overturn an election- because the Conservatives the audacity to say "Hey, it's a recession, maybe you should take your nose out of the trough."

* And I wish the media would be more clear on this point - the opposition aren't being singled out by this fact the Conservatives stand to lose the most money of all. The only difference is that Canadians are voluntarily giving money the Conservatives, so they don't need taxpayer handouts. The only reason the opposition would be hurt more is because nobody wants to donate to them. They should be putting their efforts towards fixing that problem.

* I don't want another election. But what I want even less is a surprise backroom Prime Minister whom I never even had the opportunity to vote for or against. What an insult to democracy.

Edited November 30, 2008 by madmax

[Oleg Bach]

Not me I would take the house and all teh assets, an never have nothing do to with em again

It's pretty difficult to find an honest and loyal partner in this world let alone an honest government. Times have changed and you may take the assets and leave only to find yourself sleeping with the retired stripper..who is actually a fine woman...who is tried of spending a life of lies. Perhaps you and I may find fraud distasteful - to most it's exceptable...welcome to the new world.

[madmax]

Layton has never had a problem with separatists. He had candidates in Quebec last election who were openly separatist, and some noted NDP types were advising Quebecers to vote for the BQ in order to keep Harper out.

How is the cushy government job? Was that you listening in on the NDP conference call? Is that how you got all this juicy government insider knowledge of the NDP

[johhny]

It's pretty difficult to find an honest and loyal partner in this world let alone an honest government. Times have changed and you may take the assets and leave only to find yourself sleeping with the retired stripper..who is actually a fine woman...who is tried of spending a life of lies. Perhaps you and I may find fraud distasteful - to most it's exceptable...welcome to the new world.

I would think the underlying problem is they are not held accountable, I have been proposed before but I think about the wife and what I have to lose so have never carried through. Like most employers if the emoloyee lies or cheats they are fired on the spot, maybe we should adopt those policy's to instill honesty in our leadership after all they work for us.

if you lie, cheat or are dishonest you do not deserve your position and should be FIRED!

Edited November 30, 2008 by johhny

[Oleg Bach]

How is the cushy government job? Was that you listening in on the NDP conference call? Is that how you got all this juicy government insider knowledge of the NDP

Impossible to find knowledge in the NDP let alone insider knowledge. Can't we just fire them all and tell the block to block off and die? Layton can get a job as a social worker in Toronto and run the harm reduction dope addict program...so compassionate those lefties with incrimental destruction of people - a little at a time...and Harper - what a chicken - He should be willing to lose his job doing what is right - but now it seems he likes his job more that doing the right thing --------------------big disappointment - I thought he had guts.

[johhny]

Harper Income trust scandle $35billion

Harper fixed election $300,000,000

A PM who keeps his word Priceless

[Oleg Bach]

Harper Income trust scandle $35billion

Harper fixed election $300,000,000

A PM who keeps his word Priceless

Don't forget when they sucked in Frank of Magna who dumped a huge bundle on buying the post of head of the Conservative Party - and the back room boys took the money...and laughed behind Mr. Magnas back...is that also a Harper sin? Harper is big buisness - untill you can supply something better than Harper - there will be no support from Bay Street - so watchya got?

[madmax]

Back to the coalition.

Here is the transcript....

NDP Conference call

Now, will there be an independent NDP caucus, yes. BQ stability issues, worry about BQ potentially being off-side, we're taking that very much into account. We have numerous strategies designed to deal with it, I actually believe they're the least of our problems, but in case I'm wrong, let's just say we have strategies, this whole thing would not have happened if the moves hadn't have been made with the Bloc to lock them in early, because you couldn't put three people together in one, in three hours. The first part was done a long time ago, I won't go into details, and the managing expectations, lists from groups, actually, the wisest people in the groups are already coming to the conclusion, some of them are in direct contact, saying probably wouldn't be too helpful if we had long lists of stuff, right? What we really want is just to get Harper out and get the new group in because it's going to be a hell of a lot better for everything we believe in, correct? Correct. So let's stay on that track, and not start debating whether or not it's twenty five percent change or fifteen percent change over here, let's get them out, on the basis of unity not the basis of division.

There you go again

I have to add this from Canada Press

A spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office said there was nothing unethical about covertly listening in to the private NDP deliberations, taping those discussions and releasing them to the media.

Edited November 30, 2008 by madmax