New laws for young drivers?

[blueblood]

I can see how those in the rural areas are affected. The fact remains that one person that dies or become incapacitated because of carelessness of teen driving is one too much.

Obviously the results of teens on the road are overwhelming when we have to change laws every 10 years or so and with more penalties. Says teens have undesirable behavior on the road.

Adults drive careless too, in fact probably more adults drink and drive than kids do, that's how it is in my town. Should we put everybody on restrictions to even the playing field.

I've also seen 40 year old men have even childish behavior in rush hour traffic, road rage anyone.

Yes lets have inexperienced 22 year olds driving, jeez. Then they'll want to pass laws dealing with it.

Here's a novel idea, drive properly or end up road pizza.

[Trax]

My cousin was killed at age 17 in a crash caused by the 18 year old that was driving.

There were 4 teens in the car and the 18 yr old male was showing off & driving aggressively down a steep winding hill.

He tried to pass a car on a sharp turn when an on coming vehicle came from around the bend.

He tried to avoid the oncoming car and spun out, slamming the passenger side into a concrete barricade.

My cousin- Caitlin- was on life support for a day when the decision was made to allow her to donate organs.

I have yet to hear anything about this legislation that would have altered the events that day.

True, it would have been illegal to have 4 passengers, but it was already illegal to drive erratically, without seatbelts etc. The driver was ok with breaking those laws, why would he follow these new ones?

My cousin is dead because an 18 year old male was irresponsible and immature.

How do these changes make a young person responsible & mature?

I say unplug the play station & toss the 10 year olds on to riding lawnmowers, go-karts, snowmobiles, dirt bikes and any other motorized vehicle that will force them to think, react, judge distance & speed and most of all, respect the power of the vehicle. They will learn their limits, gain experience, build character & common sense.

Then, develop a driver’s training program that actually prepares them for the road and back it up with recommendations from experienced drivers that have spent significant time as passengers with the youth at the wheel. It would be a much better indicator of whether or not a teen has the necessary maturity required to hold a driver’s license.

Yeah, I guess its better to dream up new laws...

Edited November 21, 2008 by Trax

[capricorn]

My cousin was killed at age 17 in a crash caused by the 18 year old that was driving.

What a tragedy. Sorry for your loss, Trax.

Then, develop a driver’s training program that actually prepares them for the road and back it up with recommendations from experienced drivers that have spent significant time as passengers with the youth at the wheel. It would be a much better indicator of whether or not a teen has the necessary maturity required to hold a driver’s license.

I like this idea.

When my 16 year old son told me he was going for his learner's permit, I panicked. I have always been concerned about the poor driving habits of people on the road and I dreaded to see my son face this menace. I wanted my son to be a defensive driver and not develop poor driving habits. Friends recommended Young Drivers of Canada. That's one of the best investment I ever made.

I never hesitated letting him drive my car and I was never fearful of driving with him at the wheel. One of the things they stressed in the course was to walk around the vehicle to check for flat tires and for any objects which would not be visible from inside the vehicle. After 20 years driving, he still does it. Case in point...today, my spouse and I left home to drive to an appointment. Four blocks into our trip, he realized one of the tires was flat. Had he walked around the vehicle before we left home he would have spotted the flat tire and fixed it before we left. As it turned out he had to fix the flat in sub-zero weather on a side street instead of the warmth of our indoor garage.

About McGuinty's proposal. I don't agree with regulating the number of passengers in a vehicle, regardless of age. I agree with posters who say that education is preferable to more legislation/regulation. I want cops to serve and protect, not count passengers in vehicles or stop vehicles because the driver looks young. This brings up the question of profiling, doesn't it?

[Wilber]

I was considering getting a horse at the way things are going.

Don't do that, cars are a lot cheaper.

[madmax]

Don't do that, cars are a lot cheaper.

There is only one way to know that. I hope you like or liked horses.

[Oleg Bach]

There is only one way to know that. I hope you like or liked horses.

Got kicked by a mule once. Anything remotely horsey frightens me. They are bigger than me and can bite - but I do like them - Let me tell you about Dusty the mule. My childhood home was on a lake. Across the way was a green area, a little public part of sorts. A carpet bagger type was selling mule rides to the local kids. I took a walk early one morning and approached Dusty the mule from behind to get a good look - to see if there was actaully any dust on the critter. Then like a massive hinged baseball bat, one of his rear legs came flying out and hit me in the thigh...I knew at that moment when what the term "kicked like a mule" came from - a lot of power.

But I eventually got over this incident and got a summer job leading a pony about. The kind carpet baggers have who take pictures of your kids mounted like cowboys - yep - we had hats for the kids. When lunch time rolled around me and Joe - would sit in the horse trailer and he would ask me if I wanted a "bun" - Bun was code for beer- I said sure - being a rascal and 13 years of age feeling manly..so I had a bun - then - four more...then it was back to work...It was a bright day and I was drunk...you know what I mean...sunshine squinting loaded. Being curious I decided to put my eye up to the pony's eye and have an intimate moment with the beast..then it happened. The animal with a nose and scull made out of steel jerked his head sky ward and I got wacked square in the face by his huge shnooze.

I woke up on my back with the pony gone - Joe the carpet bagger was gone - and so was my weeks pay....excuse me for being long winded - now did I ever tell you the story about being trapped in a darkened field by a huge herd of real big horses ? Maybe some other time.

[Wilber]

There is only one way to know that. I hope you like or liked horses.

Yup and I still like em but I enjoy other people's now. My wife could have given Imelda Marcos a run if she could have spent as much on shoes as those critters got. Could have bought a pretty nice car for what I paid in vet bills alone over the years.

[noahbody]

2. Zero speeding tolerance if under 22 - 30 day suspension of license if caught.

I think the key words here are "if caught." I can see this resulting in some young drivers trying to outrun the cops in order to avoid the suspension.

[GostHacked]

Then, develop a driver’s training program that actually prepares them for the road and back it up with recommendations from experienced drivers that have spent significant time as passengers with the youth at the wheel. It would be a much better indicator of whether or not a teen has the necessary maturity required to hold a driver’s license.

Indeed. More driver's ed is the key.

[eyeball]

I'm kind of surprised at how little enthusiasm there seems to be for any kind of technological 'fix' for the problem of speed and drunk driving.

Automated highways aside, is it still too much to ask that young drivers not be allowed to drive cars over a certain horse-power, hence speed? People don't usually let children drive mountain bikes until they've mastered tricycles after all. How much of a stretch is it to take the same approach with cars? To tell you the truth I honestly don't see why anyone should be allowed to drive vehicles above a set speed limit. It should be fairly simple to have an onboard GPS-based control system that governs the engine speed according to whatever speed zone it happens to be in. Building these into cars should be no more expensive than installing a radio, the savings from reduced premiums and health costs related to high-speed accidents would more than offset the cost. You could also kiss most of the traffic cops, radar traps, photo-cams and all the perennial political horseshit that goes with them goodbye.

As for driving drunk, breathalyzer ignition interlocks for cars that kids drive seem like less of an imposition than what McGuinty has proposed and they'd probably be even cheaper than the speed govenors, not to mention the premium/health cost savings.

[guyser]

I'm kind of surprised at how little enthusiasm there seems to be for any kind of technological 'fix' for the problem of speed and drunk driving.

Free choice.

Automated highways aside, is it still too much to ask that young drivers not be allowed to drive cars over a certain horse-power, hence speed? People don't usually let children drive mountain bikes until they've mastered tricycles after all. How much of a stretch is it to take the same approach with cars? To tell you the truth I honestly don't see why anyone should be allowed to drive vehicles above a set speed limit. It should be fairly simple to have an onboard GPS-based control system that governs the engine speed according to whatever speed zone it happens to be in. Building these into cars should be no more expensive than installing a radio, the savings from reduced premiums and health costs related to high-speed accidents would more than offset the cost. You could also kiss most of the traffic cops, radar traps, photo-cams and all the perennial political horseshit that goes with them goodbye.

Free choice.

As for driving drunk, breathalyzer ignition interlocks for cars that kids drive seem like less of an imposition than what McGuinty has proposed and they'd probably be even cheaper than the speed govenors, not to mention the premium/health cost savings.

Very easy to get around.

I hope you dont think web based filters work for teens .

[eyeball]

Public safety trumps free choice, that's why stuff like marijuana is outlawed. In ze meantime ze glorius state has other vays of controlink you comrade.

Get used to it.

This too.

As for automated roads...here is how we should begin.

The McCrary Personal Transport System (PTS) is a simple, inexpensive step beyond present transportation methods.

I think this would make a dandy homegrown economic rescue package for Canada by the way. It would revitalize our auto sector and infrastructure building contractors not to mention boost our information technology sector. This would also put us so far ahead of other countries in terms of reducing CO2 emissions even the deniers would be crowing about it.

Operating at a single constant speed of 100 feet/second (68 mph) and bumper­to-bumper vehicle spacing, a single lane on the PTS can move as many as 20,000 vehicles per hour. A single lane of a conventional freeway is stated by traffic experts to accommodate a maximum of 2,000 vehicles per hour.

I think this is what they mean by efficiency isn't it?

Hey look at the guy on the horse, I think that's Morris isn't it or was that Oleg? Shit, I blinked and missed it.

Edited November 22, 2008 by eyeball

[blueblood]

Public safety trumps free choice, that's why stuff like marijuana is outlawed. In ze meantime ze glorius state has other vays of controlink you comrade.

Get used to it.

This too.

As for automated roads...here is how we should begin.

I think this would make a dandy homegrown economic rescue package for Canada by the way. It would revitalize our auto sector and infrastructure building contractors not to mention boost our information technology sector. This would also put us so far ahead of other countries in terms of reducing CO2 emissions even the deniers would be crowing about it.

I think this is what they mean by efficiency isn't it?

Hey look at the guy on the horse, I think that's Morris isn't it or was that Oleg? Shit, I blinked and missed it.

Or we could have people smarten up and save a boatload of money!!!

As for GPS, I am far more familiar with it's applications than you are. My machinery is all on GPS autosteer, that means after I make a line they can drive themselves and the operator carries out the other machine functions. However it is not as accurate enough to be utilized for on road autosteer applications at those speeds. Then there is weather conditions. For GPS autosteer in cars, the accuracy needed would have to be more accurate than current sub inch accuracy.

That other idea with cars above the roads already exists, its called a train.

Edited November 22, 2008 by blueblood

[Trax]

Anyone that drives a car, sled, atv, motorcycle, machine or plane after drinking too much is a TOOL! Even if a friend insists in getting behind the wheel when they are not fit, I would call the cops without hesitation. I would rather protect them & others than turn the cheek & live the rest of my life knowing that I could have prevented a tragedy.

If we expect toddlers to listen to us when we say "no, don't touch that!" because it is dangerous to them or others, why is it so hard to expect adults or young adults to respect the law (and reasons behind it) to not drink & drive? I don't get it.

[eyeball]

I told every one of my toddlers not to touch the woodstove because they would burn their fingers. Every one of them touched it nonetheless and burned their fingers.

It was only then that they started to listen.

I think the toughest uphill challenge the government will aways face with regards to being taken seriously about how dangerous booze is that it also sells the God damned stuff.

[Wilber]

The problem with too much automation is it changes people from operators to monitors when it should be the other way around. Machines excel at monitoring because they never get distracted or fall asleep. Humans suck at monitoring but are much better at operating because it requires them to pay attention. Too much automation will just make drivers more brain dead than they are already.

[GostHacked]

Anyone that drives a car, sled, atv, motorcycle, machine or plane after drinking too much is a TOOL! Even if a friend insists in getting behind the wheel when they are not fit, I would call the cops without hesitation. I would rather protect them & others than turn the cheek & live the rest of my life knowing that I could have prevented a tragedy.

Better solution. Instead of calling the cops, call for a cab.

[Community Advocate]

If you haven't heard about it, I think the suggestions are:

1. Zero alcohol tolerance if under 22.

2. Zero speeding tolerance if under 22 - 30 day suspension of license if caught.

3. No more than 1 passenger allowed in the car (who are not siblings).

1. No problem with that, should be in effect for everyone, regardless of age, or driving experience. ZERO alcohol tolerance when driving for everyone.

2. No problem with that, should be in effect for everyone, regardless of age, or driving experience. FOLLOW the speed limits as posted, everyone.

(as an option to 22-30 day syspension of license - a few weeks doing speedwatch in school zones.

3. Ridiculous, and another example of a few spoiling it for everyone. Correction though, no more than 1 passenger ADD: UNDER THE AGE OF 25.

[Community Advocate]

Here's a novel idea, drive properly or end up road pizza.

or make someone else that disgusting metaphor.

[Wilber]

or make someone else that disgusting metaphor.

There's the rub.

[eyeball]

Or we could have people smarten up and save a boatload of money!!!

As for GPS, I am far more familiar with it's applications than you are. My machinery is all on GPS autosteer, that means after I make a line they can drive themselves and the operator carries out the other machine functions. However it is not as accurate enough to be utilized for on road autosteer applications at those speeds. Then there is weather conditions. For GPS autosteer in cars, the accuracy needed would have to be more accurate than current sub inch accuracy.

I'm familiar enough with auto-pilots and GPS plotters. Operating a modern commercial fishing vessel isn't a whole lot different than driving a combine harvester. I bet you don't have to take a fleet of other 'harvesters' not to mention and fog and freighters and such into account.

In any case...

the McCrary personal transport system all system and subsystem technology, production methods and management techniques are mature and available.

Did you check out the video McCrary produced? It looks to me like they've put some thought into this thing.

That other idea with cars above the roads already exists, its called a train.

This thing is about as far beyond a train as trains were beyond chariots or buggys.

Edited November 23, 2008 by eyeball

[eyeball]

The problem with too much automation is it changes people from operators to monitors when it should be the other way around. Machines excel at monitoring because they never get distracted or fall asleep. Humans suck at monitoring but are much better at operating because it requires them to pay attention. Too much automation will just make drivers more brain dead than they are already.

I'm betting you think ergonomics is immoral.

[Wilber]

I'm betting you think ergonomics is immoral.

Ergonomics have to do with human interaction with machinery, not the machine doing everything for the human. It has to do with making the human more a part of the loop, not excluding them from it.

This is a fact and one the aviation industry has understood for some time. They came to a realization years ago that too much or the wrong kind of automation actually makes people more complacent. You then have to come up with more automation to monitor the existing automation because humans suck at monitoring but are actually quite good at doing. The present level of automation in vehicles may have made for safer cars but it most certainly has not produced more capable drivers.

[eyeball]

The present level of automation in vehicles may have made for safer cars but it most certainly has not produced more capable drivers.

Ergonomics has resulted in nicer cushier seats in our vehicles and produced more sleepy drivers.

Edited November 23, 2008 by eyeball

[madmax]

I hope you dont think web based filters work for teens .

They sure mess me up though