Harper needs to step down

[blueblood]

Holy Batman, a dumbass to the extreme. Dummy is what Dummy says and does. It is funny how the inability of people to pay to their mortgages, car loans, and credit cards has crippled the US economy, plunged the stock markets, and has set in motion the tanking of the world economies. This economic death spiral started because the left hand of corporate greed didn't think of the right hand. In the corporate drive to maximize profits at any costs they buckled the economies of the world creating the very crisis that has actually been the knife that slit their own throats. Many hedge funds and Investment Banks have been crushed and it will not be long before the world figures out to fuk u up real good with ur greed azz attitudes. It is not in the US interest for Alberta to enjoy High Oil prices as such there will be a move from oil dependency. So enjoy your plunging oil, because natural gas fuel cells and bio-diesel will be the quick fix to u fakers. When oil is plunged to 11 dolllars a barrel Ontario and the rest of Canada will remember Alberta's your attitude. Enjoy your party it's not going to last

Oil is 71.80 some are talking $50. We will see. I suspect you are someone who "works" in the Oil industry and when u say we, u suffer from dementia into believing you will not feel the corporate knife. Your investment money has dried up, Oil revenues are plunging, Corporations are greedy. When the ship is sinking they will move to preserve their bottom line. What that means is layoffs and and a cut back on the workforce. Not to worry you are in Good Hands with the Harper Conservatives because they will move to Cut Corporate Taxes creating an incentive for Companies to move swiflty to cut you (the dead weight) off their payroll to maximize their profits at reduced Corporate taxes.

Alberta is going to get what it deserves.

You give Ontarians a bad name, there are other posters from Ontario who know how the game works and are smart enough to cash in on it. It's people like you that elect people like Trudeau who only serve their own self interests.

Simple economics dictates that devaluing our exports is economic lunacy. I give it two years max and then the party gets started again!!!

In case you haven't noticed I'm a grain producer, bio-diesel is far more beneficial to me than high oil prices. What you also don't realize is that grain prices will shoot up and you'll be complaining about how expensive food is and how you think your entitled to my grain at less than cost of production.

[Smallc]

Alberta doesn't owe Ontario a dime.

I never said it did, but I would hope that Alberta would be willing to help Ontario since they need it right now. The carbon tax wasn't the way to do it, but equalization is. Some think Alberta should do nothing for Ontario right now and even equalization should be cut off. I think those voices are about to get louder considering Ontario may soon become have not. I hope the federal government never give in to that.

Alberta has now put itself to be in a much better financial situation than Ontario permanently.

I don't have a way to determine that, and I doubt you do either. Nothing is permanent.

Those Oil sands last a long time, by then Alberta will have diversified.

Again, we have no way of knowig whether or not they will have diversified. I hope your right, but we really don't know.

You have a very naive view of how Canada works.

Why, because I think that regions should help each other instead of constantly squabbling? I want whats best for Canada above all else. Canada includes all 10 provinces and 3 territories. I want them all to do well. Its kind of ironic that Ontario did well through the NEP, and not long ago, when oil prices were quite high and were driving up the dollar, Alberta was hurting Ontario. I guess sometimes too much of a good thing really isn't a good thing, no matter which way its going. A way needs to be found to balance the two types of economies. To say manufacturing is dead is stupid, as much of Canada is still very dependent on it. You want to screw the east as it were, and that is no smarter than what you think the Liberals want to do to the west. To say that Alberta should be able to go full speed ahead with no considerations is also stupid. It needs to be balanced.

Where was Ontario when our grain industry was in the tank? Where was Ontario when oil prices crashed in the late 80's?

They were right there providing money so that the feds could run equalization to make sure that the provinces that were negatives affected were able to meet their fiscal responsibilities. You seem to have a pretty naive view on the way Canada works.

Alberta should be able to be rich (which they are), but that doesn't mean that they don't have obligations to the rest of the country (they do, and they pretty much meet them right now I would say) and that doesn't mean they should have a license to pollute (and I'm not talking about carbon). It all needs to be done responsibly and in a way that allows the entire country to prosper.

[noahbody]

Not to worry you are in Good Hands with the Harper Conservatives because they will move to Cut Corporate Taxes creating an incentive for Companies to move swiflty to cut you (the dead weight) off their payroll to maximize their profits at reduced Corporate taxes.

That's some good logic.

[Mr.Canada]

Are you saying you think Harper will go for another election in 6 months?

Usually jdobbin has useful things to say but not on this. The PM cannot possibly call another election that Canadians don't want, he would lose seats. He is to blame for this election if he calls another in 6 months he is done as leader of the CPC. Maybe that's why jdobbin wants him top call one. He won't.

Calling another election so soon would tell the Canadian people that he doesn't trust them. No politician can afford that. If the RH Stephan Harper wants an election he will force the opposition to vote against a bill.

Right now the PM does have a majority and push any legislation he wants through as no party wants to be on the hook for triggering an election so soon after this one. That party will be labeled as one that doesn't or cannot make this government work. That would haunt this party throughout an entire campaign and would be devastating in the polls.

If jdobbin really thinks that the RH Stephan Harper will call the next election he/she is not based in reality I'm afraid. Ask him what advantage it would be for the PM to call the next election.

There is none. According to the pundits here, the PM is a control freak. Now why would a control freak call an election that would anger the electorate and cause the CPC to lose seats?

It doesn't make any sense.

[jdobbin]

Are you saying you think Harper will go for another election in 6 months?

I'm saying it is probably to the advantage of the Tories to do it if looks like the economy will be an issue for quite some time. The Liberals will be at their weakest with no leader and finances directed to the leadership. If Harper can somehow blame the Liberals or Opposition for some sort of dysfunction, I think he will call the election himself.

[jdobbin]

There is none. According to the pundits here, the PM is a control freak. Now why would a control freak call an election that would anger the electorate and cause the CPC to lose seats?

It doesn't make any sense.

If Harper feels his prospects may entail a defeat on no confidence by a re-energized Liberals within the year and if bad news on the economy looks to make a surplus a deficit, it makes sense for him to go before.

[blueblood]

I never said it did, but I would hope that Alberta would be willing to help Ontario since they need it right now. The carbon tax wasn't the way to do it, but equalization is. Some think Alberta should do nothing for Ontario right now and even equalization should be cut off. I think those voices are about to get louder considering Ontario may soon become have not. I hope the federal government never give in to that.

I don't have a way to determine that, and I doubt you do either. Nothing is permanent.

Again, we have no way of knowig whether or not they will have diversified. I hope your right, but we really don't know.

Why, because I think that regions should help each other instead of constantly squabbling? I want whats best for Canada above all else. Canada includes all 10 provinces and 3 territories. I want them all to do well. Its kind of ironic that Ontario did well through the NEP, and not long ago, when oil prices were quite high and were driving up the dollar, Alberta was hurting Ontario. I guess sometimes too much of a good thing really isn't a good thing, no matter which way its going. A way needs to be found to balance the two types of economies. To say manufacturing is dead is stupid, as much of Canada is still very dependent on it. You want to screw the east as it were, and that is no smarter than what you think the Liberals want to do to the west. To say that Alberta should be able to go full speed ahead with no considerations is also stupid. It needs to be balanced.

They were right there providing money so that the feds could run equalization to make sure that the provinces that were negatives affected were able to meet their fiscal responsibilities. You seem to have a pretty naive view on the way Canada works.

Alberta should be able to be rich (which they are), but that doesn't mean that they don't have obligations to the rest of the country (they do, and they pretty much meet them right now I would say) and that doesn't mean they should have a license to pollute (and I'm not talking about carbon). It all needs to be done responsibly and in a way that allows the entire country to prosper.

Equalization was around for ever. The National Energy program shot our economy in the foot. How come there is no national manufacturing program that ensures all areas of Canada get cheap Ontario goods? You seem to think that we are all in the same boat when we are not. I would have no problem if Ontario and Alberta turned our equalization dollars off. Alberta is not entitled to anything Ontario has and the same the other way around. Punishing regions for getting ahead is not the way to go. Western Canada shouldn't have to pay the price because Ontario's dinosaur manufacturing industry won't modernize. I say leave everybody alone, you want to spread the wealth by punishing those who succeed, that's what makes me a tory and you a Liberal.

Give me a break about the high dollar, I am involved in exporting yet I still had high prices with a high dollar. Lots of Canadians did good shopping for cheap american machinery and consumer goods. Manufacturing in Canada is on its way out, we are players in a global market and Canada is just too expensive to run factories in. Ontario either has to make goods we want, or take a pay cut.

[Smallc]

Ontario either has to make goods we want, or take a pay cut.

I thought you just said manufacturing was dead? I would have a problem with turning equalization off. We should all share in the wealth as we are all Canadians. Just because Alberta happens to be sitting on the more easily accessible oil doesn't mean that its all for them and none for us. I would feel the same no matter what.

Alberta is certainly not suffering despite the fact that they have to send more money to Ottawa than they get back. They aren't being punished for making money. Because of their generosity and the generosity of Ontario, the rest of us don't have to suffer either. Now, after all these years of giving, if it turns out that Ontario needs some help, then they should get it. Exactly the way it should be.

[cybercoma]

I thought you just said manufacturing was dead? I would have a problem with turning equalization off. We should all share in the wealth as we are all Canadians. Just because Alberta happens to be sitting on the more easily accessible oil doesn't mean that its all for them and none for us. I would feel the same no matter what.

Alberta is certainly not suffering despite the fact that they have to send more money to Ottawa than they get back. They aren't being punished for making money. Because of their generosity and the generosity of Ontario, the rest of us don't have to suffer either. Now, after all these years of giving, if it turns out that Ontario needs some help, then they should get it. Exactly the way it should be.

Can that thinking be transferred to personal wealth as well? If it's acceptable to say the province of Alberta should fork over cash to the rest of us because we're all Canadians, isn't it then ok to say that the rich should fork over cash to the poor because we're all Canadians?

[Smallc]

Can that thinking be transferred to personal wealth as well? If it's acceptable to say the province of Alberta should fork over cash to the rest of us because we're all Canadians, isn't it then ok to say that the rich should fork over cash to the poor because we're all Canadians?

We already do what your talking about. The child tax benefit, welfare, GST rebates, so yes, etc. it is ok. We should all be able to live.

[Who's Doing What?]

He voted for a gun registry with a price tag of $2 million.

Just like he supported a 6 month war in Iraq?

Bottom line is he felt that having gun owners register their guns was a good idea. Which it is. The police use the database thousands of times a year. I believe jdobbin posted the actual number several months ago.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Who's Doing What?

[blueblood]

I thought you just said manufacturing was dead? I would have a problem with turning equalization off. We should all share in the wealth as we are all Canadians. Just because Alberta happens to be sitting on the more easily accessible oil doesn't mean that its all for them and none for us. I would feel the same no matter what.

Alberta is certainly not suffering despite the fact that they have to send more money to Ottawa than they get back. They aren't being punished for making money. Because of their generosity and the generosity of Ontario, the rest of us don't have to suffer either. Now, after all these years of giving, if it turns out that Ontario needs some help, then they should get it. Exactly the way it should be.

I would have no problem if our equalization payments were cut, it would mean less needless social programs. We don't need social programs to live. A large part of the farm income crisis years ago was the high taxes we were having to pay.

Spin it any way you want, taking money away from someone who is rich and giving it to someone who is poor by force is punishing someone for being rich. If Ontario didn't have to give it's money away, they would be in much better financial shape and could diversify from their dinosaur dying manufacturing industry that is more and more being outsourced to poor countries. Shouldn't poor countries be allowed to manufacture goods, or is that Ontario's God given right? Let Ontario help themselves, lowering their sky high taxes is a start.

Taking money from the rich to give to the poor is how to tank an economy, it takes away incentive. How about leaving everyone alone and letting the poor work themselves up? This is why the world economy is in the tank right now is quite simply forcing the rich to give to the poor.

[Smallc]

I would have no problem if our equalization payments were cut, it would mean less needless social programs. We don't need social programs to live. A large part of the farm income crisis years ago was the high taxes we were having to pay.

Spin it any way you want, taking money away from someone who is rich and giving it to someone who is poor by force is punishing someone for being rich. If Ontario didn't have to give it's money away, they would be in much better financial shape and could diversify from their dinosaur dying manufacturing industry that is more and more being outsourced to poor countries. Shouldn't poor countries be allowed to manufacture goods, or is that Ontario's God given right? Let Ontario help themselves, lowering their sky high taxes is a start.

Taking money from the rich to give to the poor is how to tank an economy, it takes away incentive. How about leaving everyone alone and letting the poor work themselves up? This is why the world economy is in the tank right now is quite simply forcing the rich to give to the poor.

All I can say is, thank goodness your not in power. The country would fall apart.

[pfezziwig]

I guess the poster only supports Democracy when it only supports their point of view. When people vote Harper in he should step down?

The Left are far more intolerant than the Right.

Edited October 20, 2008 by pfezziwig

[Mr.Canada]

I guess the poster only supports Democracy when it only supports their point of view. When people vote Harper in he should step down?

The Left are far more intolerant than the Right.

I akin this type of behavior to pouting. Since this bb is dominated by Left wingers, the outing gets bad when conservatives win once in a while.

Sore losers if you ask me.

[Who's Doing What?]

I guess the poster only supports Democracy when it only supports their point of view. When people vote Harper in he should step down?

The Left are far more intolerant than the Right.

Just intolerant of different things. UNfortunatly some of the social views of the right are among them.

[noahbody]

Just like he supported a 6 month war in Iraq?

Yes, his (and Ignatieff's) position was based on false information.

Bottom line is he felt that having gun owners register their guns was a good idea.

His position is that it is a waste of money. If the price tag was known, he surely wouldn't have supported it.

The police use the database thousands of times a year. I believe jdobbin posted the actual number several months ago.

The number is 5,000 time a day or 1,825,000 times a year. This is the most misleading stat ever. The gun registry is accessed automatically when a CPIC inquiry is made. The police are not making 5,000 gun registry inquiries per day. You'd really have to be a sucker to believe that one. Police associations have spoken out against the gun registry too, you know, calling it useless because as an officer you can never assume someone doesn't have a firearm. Because if you do, you're putting your life at risk. That should speak volumes, if you're listening. There are plenty of statements against the gun registry found on old threads.

At $25 million per year, the gun registry breaks down to over $200,000 per registered long gun homicide. Homicides prevented: 0. Is that worth it in your opinion?

[marksman]

I guess the poster only supports Democracy when it only supports their point of view. When people vote Harper in he should step down?

The Left are far more intolerant than the Right.

How sad that you're attempting to generalize about so many people in an attempt to avoid a legitimate question. People in the conservative party would be idiots to not ask themselves why Harper hasn't been able to get a majority when his main opponents were so weak in the last 2 elections. They'd also be idiots to have him step down right now but the question should be quietly asked.

Intolerance isn't limited to any 1 political philosophy. Your attempt to dismiss a legitimate question by saying the poster doesn't like democracy shows your own intolerance.

[BC_chick]

How sad that you're attempting to generalize about so many people in an attempt to avoid a legitimate question. People in the conservative party would be idiots to not ask themselves why Harper hasn't been able to get a majority when his main opponents were so weak in the last 2 elections. They'd also be idiots to have him step down right now but the question should be quietly asked.

Intolerance isn't limited to any 1 political philosophy. Your attempt to dismiss a legitimate question by saying the poster doesn't like democracy shows your own intolerance.

Thanks. Personally I gave up clarifying my post. Maybe it was my own fault, "needs to" was probably too definitive for what I was trying to say. "Ought to" would have been better choice of words.

Either way, judging by some of the responses, I don't think they're reading past the subject-line of the thread anyway.

Edited October 20, 2008 by BC_chick

[Mr.Canada]

Mr. Martin won about the same amount of support as Mr. Harper did. Did you call for him to step down right after the election?

Mr. Dion barely got 2 in 10 of the votes. Our PM got double the votes of Mr. Dion.

Mr. Layton got 1 in 10 of the votes. Should he step down as well?

[Smallc]

Mr. Dion barely got 2 in 10 of the votes. Our PM got double the votes of Mr. Dion.

Mr. Layton got 1 in 10 of the votes. Should he step down as well?

Ummmmm.....no

[Mr.Canada]

Ummmmm.....no

Uhhh...yes.

26% support for Mr. Dion and 18% for Layton.

Ah sorry, they both 2 out of 10 Canadians to vote for each of them respectively.

Our PM got double that.

[Smallc]

Uhhh...yes.

26% support for Mr. Dion and 18% for Layton.

Ah sorry, they both 2 out of 10 Canadians to vote for each of them respectively.

Our PM got double that.

38 isn't double 26. Note even close.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Smallc

[guyser]

Our PM got double that.

Hmmm.....

[Mr.Canada]

38 isn't double 26. Note even close.

Our PM got support for a massive majority from every province except Quebec. The Tories even beat the Liberals in Ontario getting 51% of the vote. The Tories are Canada s new truly National Party.