Unite the Left?

[Mad_Michael]

Certainly there may be undesirable consequences in a "pure" PR system (i.e. proportion of seats = part of popular vote by the party). That's why it would make sense to start with some kind of a mixed system, e.g. half of the House by majoritary vote, the other - by party's take of the popular vote.

Everybody must understand that majoritary system may provide strong government and consistency, but it just isn't made to give us the variety of choice. The only choice it gives is binary: Conservate/Liberal, everything else is pretty much a throw away.

If in this time we want more variety in our choices than #1 or #2, the electoral system simply has to be reformed.

Australia's experience could be illustrative here. They use a 'bastardized' mixed system. I personally haven't researched this Australian system lately, but it seems like the kind of thing that a "mixed" system would look like. And yes, they do have a half-dozen tiny parties.

[cybercoma]

Democracy does not mean every should expect to have every one of their policy desires catered to. People should be looking at the issues and setting priorities. Big tent political parties ecourage people to do that. PR systems filled with small parties give people the illusion that the don't have to compromise but will end up being disappointed when these small parties are forced to compromise or accept meaningless face saving gesters in order to participate in a coalition.

We could also go the Alternative Vote route where the votes are transferred during the election. This would force the parties to move more towards the center to try and garner those second preference votes. I think this could be beneficial for Canadians; however, if voters can't be bothered learning about the candidates or supporting their party now... how the hell are the going to make 2 or more choices on a ballot?

Also, this may only serve to solidfy the Liberals power in parliament. When the NDP candidates drop out of the running in various ridings, those votes would likely be transferred to the Liberals (or the Greens, then eventually the Liberals). So, this may not help Canada in any meaningful way. In fact, it could lead to the Chretien years as our permanent structure of parliament.

Edited October 15, 2008 by cybercoma

[independent]

His premiership in Quebec is intentionally underwhelming. Jean Chretien put him there to try and thwart the separatists and that is exactly what his premiership has done. He has been a stabilizing force in Quebec, so by his very purpose he is meant to be underwhelming until you realize why he is there.

Although it may seem as though being affiliated with Mulroney may not be a benefit, Mulroney was the only conservative in the 20th century to be elected to two majorities. Charest could sway current Conservative voters that identify more with the more central Progressive Conservative Party of old and hold onto those PC voters that went Liberal during the merger but may have voted for Harper in this election. I think Jean Charest has the potential to be one of the best leaders the Liberals have had and he could be an incredible unifying force for all of Canada, as he already is in his current position.

Jean Charest would make an outstanding leader for the Liberals. I thought he was destined to lead the PCs. He is one of those rare leaders that can relate too almost everybody.

[Mad_Michael]

His premiership in Quebec is intentionally underwhelming. Jean Chretien put him there to try and thwart the separatists and that is exactly what his premiership has done. He has been a stabilizing force in Quebec, so by his very purpose he is meant to be underwhelming until you realize why he is there.

Agreed. Charest has a done a decent job in Quebec. The point is that this will not translate into a national reputation that is needed to run for PM.

Although it may seem as though being affiliated with Mulroney may not be a benefit, Mulroney was the only conservative in the 20th century to be elected to two majorities.

That the party was utterly wiped off the map in the next election seems like a relevant fact to keep in mind here.

Charest could sway current Conservative voters that identify more with the more central Progressive Conservative Party of old and hold onto those PC voters that went Liberal during the merger but may have voted for Harper in this election. I think Jean Charest has the potential to be one of the best leaders the Liberals have had and he could be an incredible unifying force for all of Canada, as he already is in his current position.

Charest will not excite Ontario at all. Ontario appears to be rebelling against too many Quebec leaders of the Liberal party lately.

Besides, Quebec is tough electoral ground for all parties (except the BQ) no matter what. But Ontario is the bastion of the Liberal party. This has to be the number one priority. If the Liberals can't hold a majority of Ontario seats, they are toast no matter what happens in the rest of the country. Ontario is the base.

[Who's Doing What?]

I don't see the left ever uniting.

I think the only people the die hard Liberals and Dippers hate more than the Cons is each other.

[M.Dancer]

I don't care if the left unite or not as long as it doesn't include the Liberals.

Rather the task at hand for the liberals is to regain the centre where the votes are.

[jdobbin]

Also, do you think there is a leader out there that could accomplish this, our lead such a party?

I think Layton, like Harper, wants the Liberals to disappear.

The initiative won't be coming from him to merge.

The Liberals want to be a centrist party while some NDP seem more comfortable at the federal level a lot farther to the left.

Edited October 15, 2008 by jdobbin

[Mad_Michael]

I don't see the left ever uniting.

I think the only people the die hard Liberals and Dippers hate more than the Cons is each other.

Few things telegraph one's hard-core rightwing partisanship more clearly than the use of the expression "dippers".

[Who's Doing What?]

Few things telegraph one's hard-core rightwing partisanship more clearly than the use of the expression "dippers".

LMAO

YOu're calling me "hard-core rightwing"??? LMFAO

You might want to talk to Argus and a few other True Blue posters around here.

Absolutly hilarious.

I must be doing something right. The Right says I'm a Leftwing nut job and the Left says I'm hard-core Rightwing.

[Smallc]

Few things telegraph one's hard-core rightwing partisanship more clearly than the use of the expression "dippers".

I've heard many New Democrats call themselves that. Are they hard core right wingers?

[independent]

Agreed. Charest has a done a decent job in Quebec. The point is that this will not translate into a national reputation that is needed to run for PM.

That the party was utterly wiped off the map in the next election seems like a relevant fact to keep in mind here.

Charest will not excite Ontario at all. Ontario appears to be rebelling against too many Quebec leaders of the Liberal party lately.

Besides, Quebec is tough electoral ground for all parties (except the BQ) no matter what. But Ontario is the bastion of the Liberal party. This has to be the number one priority. If the Liberals can't hold a majority of Ontario seats, they are toast no matter what happens in the rest of the country. Ontario is the base.

Charest may be a exception too the rule.

[cybercoma]

I think the system suggested here in Ontario, an MMP system that keeps riding based candidates and "tops" up seats from a party list is the best way. It keeps riding based accountability while ensuring parliamentary makeup matches the popular vote

It's also a good opportunity to use the "filler seats" as an opportunity to put under-represented groups into parliament.

[cybercoma]

Charest may be a exception too the rule.

That's what I think, but as I was typing it, it occurred to me that the idea might be too crazy to even be considered. Jean Charest, Liberal Leader. It's just so crazy that it might work.

[White Doors]

I just can't see the Liberals wanting to join with the NDP and vice versa. The center of the NDP is far left of the center of the Liberals. A joining would bleed off a lot of the more right leaning Liberals essentially negating any benefit from the increased support from NDP'ers

If anybody is going to unite, they will have to meet in the center, ie red tories, liberals & some of the greens, because Canada for all intents and purposes is a centrist nation.

Fiscally they've moved away from the center, which has cost them dearly, and the center is where the Liberals have to get back to if they want to win.

what he said

[Bryan]

Ontario appears to be rebelling against too many Quebec leaders of the Liberal party lately.

I think practically the whole country outside of Quebec appears to be rebelling against too many Quebec leaders of any federal party.

[Moonlight Graham]

IMO the Greens and NDP should unite, or the Greens just go away all together. They have proven a rather useless party thanks to Ms May, unfortunately.

[madmax]

I understand that the NDP never split from the Liberals, however, they are basically a protest party on the left side of the spectrum. In it's infancy, the Reform Party was in essence, a protest party.

Erm NO regarding the NDP/CCF, and NO again regarding Reform/or its Social Credit roots.

While I agree that the Green, and the Liberals, are centrist parties, before the merger, the PC was also centrist.

Let the GP and LP merge.

The PC is a merger of the Conservatives and the Progressives.

Todays Conservatives are a merger of the Reform and the Progressive Conservatives.

So they must be Centrist too?

Maybe all the parties should merge......

Except the NDP

[Alta4ever]

Erm NO regarding the NDP/CCF, and NO again regarding Reform/or its Social Credit roots.

Let the GP and LP merge.

The PC is a merger of the Conservatives and the Progressives.

Todays Conservatives are a merger of the Reform and the Progressive Conservatives.

So they must be Centrist too?

Maybe all the parties should merge......

Except the NDP

Their are one or two in the liberal party I would love to see cross the floor to the conservatives.