Will Dion Resign Tonight?

Smallc · October 15, 2008

I personally don't like any of the contenders in the last leadership race and would like to see one of the none non-contenders, ie McKenna or Tobin, come back.

That's exactly how I felt and I would have really liked it if someone like McKenna or Manley had given it another shot last time. Then we would have had two real choices.

drewski · October 15, 2008

That's exactly how I felt and I would have really liked it if someone like McKenna or Manley had given it another shot last time. Then we would have had two real choices.

can't really blame them. back then the chances of the Liberal's winning the next (expected probably soon) election was slim to none. With the right leader now, I think they'd have a better shot at the PM'ship and might consider a run

capricorn · October 15, 2008

I'm sure the people whose seats have changed hands don't feel the same way. This really shows a slow rise in support for PM Harper. He went From the opposition, to a small minority to a larger minority.

This is consistent with the way Harper foresees conservatism evolving in Canada. No huge gains in support to frighten Canadians just incremental support. This gives the Conservatives the opportunity to show Canadians through the manner they govern, that they are not the extreme right wing party the opposition has painted them. It's a painstaking process.

Sir Bandelot · October 15, 2008

Bob Rae was despised in Ontario after he became premier briefly in the 90's. i was working on health care and still remember his "Social Contract" days, also known as "Rae Days". Health care workers were forced to take 12 unpaid days of leave, and this directly affected critical operations like cancer care. We all felt betrayed by him and I for one would not give him any support after that.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

munsinger · October 15, 2008

Harper has set out to broaden the Con base....and has been going about it, long before the election was called.. in an incremental and methodical manner. If you look closly at the polls, Harper has steadly increased his support among women, ethnic groups, new immigrants, and suburbanites....some of the exact areas where it used to be assumed.... that he had little chance for growth.

The Ontario and BC results, this time around.... bear this out. The irony... is that now the Cons are (in terms of presence in most provinces) now the most broadly based political party. It is the Liberals that are now in danger of becoming a Reform-like rump (couple of big cities)- unless they seriously get back to a big-tent approach, with more competent leadership....

Dion is simply a dead man walking. The Liberals cannot afford to drift untill May, in order to offically perform the execution. Rae is probably the most "ready" candidate in terms of profile, experience, and speaking ability. Never could understand this Iggymania" stuff - the guy is a smarmy, ivory-tower like, concending, intellectual wonk with no real track record of service...in the country....and is close to being to the right of Harper, politically. Manley would have to mend some fences (re. Afganistan Report) and is right of centre, as well....

Above all, the Liberals have to simply drop this "natural ruling party" and "entitlement to rule" mentality that has them always looking for the "quick fix" back into power...and rebuild their grassroots..

Edited October 15, 2008 by munsinger

scribblet · October 15, 2008

Bob Rae was despised in Ontario after he became premier briefly in the 90's. i was working on health care and still remember his "Social Contract" days, also known as "Rae Days". Health care workers were forced to take 12 unpaid days of leave, and this directly affected critical operations like cancer care. We all felt betrayed by him and I for one would not give him any support after that.

It wasn`t just health care workers, all workers had to. I kinda felt sorry for Bob Rae, he did inherit a deficit which also ballooned under him, he really had no choice but to make cut backs. IMO he just went about it the wrong way.

drewski · October 15, 2008

I think the next leader of the Liberals needs to be from out east.

If somebody from Ontario, ESPECIALLY from Toronto, was picked, a lot of Canadians will stay away because see it as an Ontario focused party

If somebody from Quebec is picked, a lot of people, especially Ontarian will stay away because they are sick of Quebec based leaders.

As for out west, there isnt' much to pick from. Ralph Goodale is all I can come up with

That leaves Atlantic Canada, and I believe there are some good contenders out there. Tobin, McKenna, hell, I wonder if they could draft Danny Williams. He likes going after Harper and is extremely popular

Topaz · October 15, 2008

That's exactly how I felt and I would have really liked it if someone like McKenna or Manley had given it another shot last time. Then we would have had two real choices.

I don't care for either of them because both were at the fore front of forming and signing the NAU.

Topaz · October 15, 2008

It wasn`t just health care workers, all workers had to. I kinda felt sorry for Bob Rae, he did inherit a deficit which also ballooned under him, he really had no choice but to make cut backs. IMO he just went about it the wrong way.

Rae also came out with Rae days because he didn't wait people to lose their jobs. After Harris came to be, I think alot of people wished they had the Rae days back.

Sir Bandelot · October 15, 2008

It wasn`t just health care workers, all workers had to. I kinda felt sorry for Bob Rae, he did inherit a deficit which also ballooned under him, he really had no choice but to make cut backs. IMO he just went about it the wrong way.

No it wasn't just the health care workers, but thats what I was and that had the most negative impact on the rest of society.

New Liberal leader? There must be some better candidates than the current gang we have to choose from. They need somebody new, not these tired old politicians with too many skeletons in the closet. How about that guy from Newfoundland, maybe he might be interested. Although he's currently a PC but he doesn't seem to like Harper much. Hmm, would make for a new thread perhaps, who would you pick.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

drewski · October 15, 2008

New Liberal leader? There must be some better candidates than the current gang we have to choose from. They need somebody new, not these tired old politicians with too many skeletons in the closet. How about that guy from Newfoundland, maybe he might be interested. Although he's currently a PC but he doesn't seem to like Harper much. Hmm, would make for a new thread perhaps, who would you pick.

well there's definitely a chance. There a bunch of other old PC's so the idea is not totally outrageous

as for your thread, would you restrict it realistic candidates or everybody and anybody who has the remotest chance of running, ie. dalton and danny williams?

Edited October 15, 2008 by drewski

Sir Bandelot · October 15, 2008

Rae also came out with Rae days because he didn't wait people to lose their jobs. After Harris came to be, I think alot of people wished they had the Rae days back.

No one in cancer care would lose their jobs! But the fat cats. we can do without. They were not the ones to pay for it, we had to pay, so they could continue. Thats why he was a traitor.

And his party-hopping, indicates to me that his interests are only self serving, his politics changes by which way the wind blows.

Not to be trusted.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

jdobbin · October 15, 2008

And his party-hopping, indicates to me that his interests are only self serving, his politics changes by which way the wind blows.

Harper was a Liberal, PC, Reform, Alliance and a Conservative.

Whooosh!

capricorn · October 15, 2008

Dion is simply a dead man walking. The Liberals cannot afford to drift untill May, in order to offically perform the execution.

I'm not so sure that top Liberals would want to dump Dion just now. In fact, if Dion wants to remain leader, I think they will encourage him to stay on. This would give them time to raise funds to hold their leadership and policy convention.

IMO Dion has another purpose to serve and that is to be the fall guy on a couple of fronts.

One is the Harper defamation suit against the Liberals regarding the Cadman affair. If the Conservatives win that case (at this point there's no reason to conclude they'll lose) it would cost the Liberals millions to settle. The other is the economy. There's little the Liberals can do other than to keep an eye on Harper as he navigates through the crisis and to oppose any initiatives he takes. With the Liberal record of propping up Harper in the last parliament, they cannot be seen as doing the same all over again. Better to have Dion in place for the foreseeable future than to saddle a newly minted leader with negatives.

Dion is so obstinate to remain leader, he will blindly play into the hands of Liberal manipulators. Unless of course, Jeanine decides that Dion should give it up then my theory is down the toilet.

munsinger · October 15, 2008

Not sure that Iggy and Bobby Rae would be able to cool their wheels....for that long....

capricorn · October 15, 2008

Not sure that Iggy and Bobby Rae would be able to cool their wheels....for that long....

They're not the only Libs pulling the strings in the background.

drewski · October 15, 2008

in one regard, in chance harper calls ANOTHER election (not a great chance, but plausible), the Liberals might wanna have a new leader on board asap.

Hell, if we can have an election in 36 days, why can't they elect a leader in that, or less? (assuming the party constitution allows for it) Hell, they could have a leader in place if they can delay the first sitting on Nov 12

EDIT:

after looking over their Constitution, the only requirements is that upon receipt of resignation, the prez must call a meeting of the national executiove within 27 days and the vote must happen within 6 months

Edited October 15, 2008 by drewski

OddSox · October 15, 2008

If Dion resigns, what happens to the debt he still owes to Elections Canada for the leadership campaign?

jdobbin · October 16, 2008

If Dion resigns, what happens to the debt he still owes to Elections Canada for the leadership campaign?

He still owes it unless he declares bankruptcy.

OddSox · October 16, 2008

He still owes it unless he declares bankruptcy.

That kinda sucks. I hope the party (or somebody) steps up for him, somehow. If he has been having trouble with donations to this point, it's probably all downhill from here.

capricorn · October 16, 2008

If Dion resigns, what happens to the debt he still owes to Elections Canada for the leadership campaign?

It occurs to me there's another reason for Dion clinging to the leader's job. As MP, he'd get a pay cut. Not good when you owe Elections Canada.

I don't believe his debt to Elections Canada can be written off. That said, I feel so sorry for the guy right now I think he should be allowed to take the rest of his life to pay it off, interest free.

jdobbin · October 16, 2008

That kinda sucks. I hope the party (or somebody) steps up for him, somehow. If he has been having trouble with donations to this point, it's probably all downhill from here.

My guess is he will have to declare bankruptcy.

OddSox · October 16, 2008

My guess is he will have to declare bankruptcy.

I don't agree with his politics, but I do think he was doing it for the right reasons. I don't know if I am happy about a system which requires that kind of financial (or otherwise) risk from someone who is just trying to serve his/her country.

Edited October 16, 2008 by OddSox

drewski · October 16, 2008

according to reports he's set to announce his resignation

paging Mr. McKenna!

Topaz · October 16, 2008

according to reports he's set to announce his resignation
paging Mr. McKenna!

I thought McKenna was an ok guy until I read he helped bring the NAU together along with Manning. Along with what is happening economy to the world but especially NA, I still feel both the Cons and the Libs support the NAU and by McKenna getting involve just shows the "powers that be" want more action to get this done. Our military is already harmonizing with the US military. Some of you may think I'm all wrong, and I hope I am but I don't trust any government that won't talk about the NAU. Just look how fast Mulronery and Bush brought in the NAFTA. As far as Dion, he did his best and he has nothing to be ashamed about and he showed Canada he loved his country something I've never heard Harper say.