Will Dion Resign Tonight?

[Smallc]

There really isn't something for everyone. This election was so full of dull, uncharismatic candidates that I can understand why voter turnouts are so low. The average Canadian votes for the leader of the party, not their local MP. And they got to choose between Creepy-Eyes, No-Words, The Hippie, The Separatist, and The Appeaser. Wow. Stellar.

If that is really th depth that people look at politics with, I really am sad. Charisma is rarely a part of Canadian politics. Its supposed to be about ideas. I think the last two campaigns have been cheapened somewhat to smears and attacks. The reality is though, when you get down to the ideas, if you can't find someone with something you like, then you probably aren't looking.

[Smallc]

There's also no excuse for not adopting other reforms that would compliment mandatory voting, like proportional representation.

Oh, I don't know, I think we should leave that up to the people. Thats quite a change.

[Topaz]

There really isn't something for everyone. This election was so full of dull, uncharismatic candidates that I can understand why voter turnouts are so low. The average Canadian votes for the leader of the party, not their local MP. And they got to choose between Creepy-Eyes, No-Words, The Hippie, The Separatist, and The Appeaser. Wow. Stellar.

I don't think that true in all of Canada. I know in my area, people voted for the local guy but they dislike Harper which really doesn't make much sense because the local guy is a backbencher and has no power.

[lukin]

Ah, that's right. All of CTV are Liberals. Gotcha.

CTV has many more liberal supporters than conservative supporters. Despite your petty sarcasm, even you have to realize that Oliver, Robert Fife, Jane Taber, Seamus O'Regan are die hard liberal supporters.

I used to be a strong liberal supporter, and one of the reasons, among others, why I am no longer a liberal supporter is because of the biased media in this country that seems to fool too many Canadians.

[Sir Bandelot]

Last night, for the first time in many years, I also chose not to vote. Let me explain my reasons. Its not because I have no political interest, I always try to stay up on the current issues. I watched both the debates, although I knew already by then that I did not intend to vote. This was a personal choice for me. Quite simply, I did not want to put my name to leaders who I either have no confidence in or do not support. I would not vote for Harper because I disagree with his politics, he's too pro-US and supports the wealthy, the big business and war as an economy. He has no interest in the environment, and his party has ideas to put pressure on the health care system to change it to a more US-style, less universal and less comprehensive. Thats how I look at him and his party, and I would have liked to see them replaced. But Dion and the Liberals aren't really that different in ideology on several of these points. Secondly I have really no confidence in Dion himself as a leader. He failed his party and this country and he should be replaced. In fact he should never have been chosen, in the first place because the man has absolutely no charisma. And charisma is what gets votes. He shot himself in the foot with his carbon tax ideas. Really they could not have picked a worse leader or platform to win. As for Jack Layton or Elizabeth May, they are the wannabees who will say and do anything to get more attention, more seats and they never had a chance. They too are just more of the same. None of them has a truely inspiring vision of Canada for the future. So I will not put my name to this gang of losers.

I know that is politically a bad attitude, not to vote but as I say it was my personal choice. At one point I considered going to vote and ruining my ballot on purpose by writing a protest on it, but decided that would just be a waste of time. So I went out for the evening, played ball hockey with some friends and had a nice night. Canadians elected Harper as I expected them to. I accept the outcome, it was almost a certainty. When I heard that many others did not vote also, I suspect its because they had a similar attitude to mine. In other words, they don't want Harper but they really don't want Dion either.

I believe if the Liberals had a truly charismatic leader the outcome would have been very different.

[Smallc]

I used to be a strong liberal supporter, and one of the reasons, among others, why I am no longer a liberal supporter is because of the biased media in this country that seems to fool too many Canadians.

Oh goodness, not again. The media sells stories. Not bias, but stories. They tell people what they think they're interested in, and being as CTV NEWS is one of the top rated shows in the country, they must be doing something right

Edited October 15, 2008 by Smallc

[Riverwind]

I know that is politically a bad attitude, not to vote but as I say it was my personal choice. At one point I considered going to vote and ruining my ballot on purpose by writing a protest on it, but decided that would just be a waste of time.

Spolied ballots get recorded. If there are enough of them it will get the attention of politicians because people concerned enough to spoil a ballot are potential voters. People who don't vote at all are presumed to be uninterested or lazy. Edited October 15, 2008 by Riverwind

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The next big political story is the future of the Liberal Party. Who will lead, what direction will they take. All leaders alluded to working with others in order to govern effectively. The door is open for radical change on the Canadian political landscape yet the public itself rejects the relevance of politics. Participation in the political process is at an all time low. Leadership in all the partisan factions is lackluster at best. There is no leadership in this country, nobody inspires the voters.

[capricorn]

If we go to another election right away, I think even more Canadians will vote Conservative to keep the opposition from being able to bring down the government.

True. In addition, perhaps there is fear of the formation of a coalition of the left taking over as government. Talk about such a coalition has spread around in this election and the concept might just be too frightening for Canadians. I could see that as a factor in a future election.

[independent]

We don't have the same results.

Harper majority government

Liberals official opposition.

Parliament will not operate any differently. Thus the same results. Exact numbers of seats and who is in them matter little.

[Smallc]

Harper minority government

Liberals official opposition.

Parliament will not operate any differently. Thus the same results. Exact numbers of seats and who is in them matter little.

I'm sure the people whose seats have changed hands don't feel the same way. This really shows a slow rise in support for PM Harper. He went From the opposition, to a small minority to a larger minority. The Liberals will most likely get a new leader and we can see that the Bloc vote is becoming softer (though not at the rate I would like).

I think that these election results are important also in that they give Harper a continued mandate and they show the Liberals that their approach was wrong. There are many things to be learned here and there have been changes even if the order of things is the same and the overall situation may not have changed (though I would argue it has)

[CrazeeEddie]

True. In addition, perhaps there is fear of the formation of a coalition of the left taking over as government. Talk about such a coalition has spread around in this election and the concept might just be too frightening for Canadians. I could see that as a factor in a future election.

??????

Please don't fool yourself.

Over 51% of Canadians still voted for a left leaning party in this election. This leads me to believe that with the right leader, and a united left, Canada would be led by a left leaning government again. I would also say it's a pretty sure bet that Harper's increase in Ontario had more to do with our complete rejection of Dion as Leader, and the 'apparent' fallacy that the NDP could lead the country, than any real belief that we support Harper or his ideals.

I can also almost guarantee that another election caused by Harper or the Libs anytime in the near future would not lead to gains for EITHER party.

[CrazeeEddie]

I'm sure the people whose seats have changed hands don't feel the same way. This really shows a slow rise in support for PM Harper.

While I agree with most of your analogy, I think it would be a large mistake for the Conservative government to think the slight rise in support in Ontario was a sign of true support for Harper. Many in Ontario are simply indiferent to him, or the rest of the leaders, and I would bet a large portion of those who didn't vote are in Ontario. I would say among those around me, maybe 30% of them voted. Another 20-30% who normally vote Liberal, voted NDP simply because the majority do not believe Dion can lead this country.

Should the Liberals elect a leader Ontario, BC, the Prairies, AND Atlantic Canada can get behind, we'd see Harper's government disolve quickly.

[blueblood]

I don't know about resigning yet, but it's certainly embarrassing to have a guy blaming a particular media outlet rather than his own abysmal performance for his loss.

And who was the guy who manhandled the CTV reporter? Was he a cop or private security? If it was a Liberal staffer or privately hired security, then there should be some sort of apology from the Liberals for that. You can say all you want about emotions running high, but that's completely unnecessary regardless of the circumstances surrounding it.

dion gave one shove then told the reporter off. can't say harper is bad with the media anymore. It was the RCMP bodyguard tossing the reporter.

[blueblood]

dp

Edited October 15, 2008 by blueblood

[Mad_Michael]

If Dion hasn't resigned yet, he's a bigger idiot and even worse leader than I figured him for.

Good leaders fall on their own swords in order to A) take responsibility for failure, and to get out of the way of a possible solution.

Fact is, the knives are out for Dion now whether he likes it or not. Those knives are not going away until he does.

(I'll be supporting Bob Rae for the leadership of the Liberal Party)

[CrazeeEddie]

If Dion hasn't resigned yet, he's a bigger idiot and even worse leader than I figured him for.

Good leaders fall on their own swords in order to A) take responsibility for failure, and to get out of the way of a possible solution.

Fact is, the knives are out for Dion now whether he likes it or not. Those knives are not going away until he does.

(I'll be supporting Bob Rae for the leadership of the Liberal Party)

I don't think Rae or Ignatieff would get enough support in Ontario to uproot Harper.

[Mad_Michael]

I don't think Rae or Ignatieff would get enough support in Ontario to uproot Harper.

I agree about Ignatieff. He's as unispiring of a leader as Dion has been. Indeed, Dion only became leader because so many Liberals were underwhelmed by Ignatieff's wooden personality, lack of Canadian connections and strong Bush-Iraq support.

Ignatieff is still as wooden and uninspiring as ever. If the Liberals replace one uninspiring leader lacking charisma with another one, they deserve to sit in the backbenches.

Rae on the other hand does have charisma and has superb French-speaking skills (one of the very best amongst all English politicians). It is also to be noted that during the Liberal leadership contest, Bob Rae had the strongest public opinion support of all the contenders - in every Province in Canada (except Ontario).

As for Rae's popularity in Toronto, check out his winning vote margin in Toronto-Centre (its huge).

And Rae's background of spending years as a party leader and a term as Premier in Ontario gives him a solid base of experience that can be built on. Ignatieff has ZERO experience of running anything at all, let alone being a political leader. He's even more of a political neophyte than Dion was.

I have no worry about Ontario voting hard against Rae. That just doesn't make sense. Only partisan Tories think that way.

Btw, I've already heard a half-dozen 'non-political' types at my workplace comment on how the Liberals would have done way better with Rae as leader. No one ever mentions Ignatieff (except political types on forums).

[Who's Doing What?]

CTV has many more liberal supporters than conservative supporters. Despite your petty sarcasm, even you have to realize that Oliver, Robert Fife, Jane Taber, Seamus O'Regan are die hard liberal supporters.

I used to be a strong liberal supporter, and one of the reasons, among others, why I am no longer a liberal supporter is because of the biased media in this country that seems to fool too many Canadians.

The Bias media line is pure BS.

Just look at how much of the Liberal Media openly supported Harper in this election.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Who's Doing What?

[jdobbin]

If we go to another election right away, I think even more Canadians will vote Conservative to keep the opposition from being able to bring down the government.

I was suggesting that Harper himself might pull the plug again. You think they would reward Harper for that?

[independent]

The Bias media line is pure BS.

Just look at how much of the Liberal Media openly supported Harper in this election.

Media are always bias. That is what sells. Harper did a better job of using that too his advantage.

[jdobbin]

I give Dion one month, maybe two... Then he'll resign and the leadership review becomes a choosing exercise. Finally.

The knives are being honed now.

But who to support? I didn't get actively involved in the last leadership convention because I felt I didn't know enough about the main players. I know more now but will some of these players run again?

[guyser]

You think they would reward Harper for that?

Yeah, they'd reward him alright. Might not like it though.

[drewski]

Rae on the other hand does have charisma and has superb French-speaking skills (one of the very best amongst all English politicians). It is also to be noted that during the Liberal leadership contest, Bob Rae had the strongest public opinion support of all the contenders - in every Province in Canada (except Ontario).

As for Rae's popularity in Toronto, check out his winning vote margin in Toronto-Centre (its huge).

And Rae's background of spending years as a party leader and a term as Premier in Ontario gives him a solid base of experience that can be built on. Ignatieff has ZERO experience of running anything at all, let alone being a political leader. He's even more of a political neophyte than Dion was.

I have no worry about Ontario voting hard against Rae. That just doesn't make sense. Only partisan Tories think that way.

Btw, I've already heard a half-dozen 'non-political' types at my workplace comment on how the Liberals would have done way better with Rae as leader. No one ever mentions Ignatieff (except political types on forums).

I think a lot of people in Ontario are still smarting from the rough times experienced during Rae's premiership, which they associate with his leadership rather then then the tough economic times he inherited

I personally don't like any of the contenders in the last leadership race and would like to see one of the none non-contenders, ie McKenna or Tobin, come back. As mentioned in the other thread, I'd be happye to see Charest run too but I don't think he'd necessarily have the best chance of winning an election as leader.

[jdobbin]

Yeah, they'd reward him alright. Might not like it though.

If that is the case, we are probably looking for an election in early 2009 with Harper being the one to call it.