Election 2008 - CPC - The Way I See There Slide

[TOhasCLASS]

Let's look at the CPC, Harper and their actions and words and compare it to the slide in polling that has occured.

First we have to give us the Canadian electorate public the respect we deserve ... We are not as easy to fool as our leaders would think us to be. While I have more often than not voted Liberal because of my own personal view on how I see our country and where it's heading. That being said I am not against voting another party if I believe that their path fits with my personal expectations of Canada.

Major Blunders always come down to simple human reactions and basic belief systems

1. Being critical of the other parties economics when the CPC had not even bothered to prepare anything the public could compare.

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be critcized by others who bring nothing to the table it always raises the ire of people who have put forth an effort - the voting public can relate and finds this very annoying.

2. People who preach and act in an parental role - Harper comes across as preachy "I know whats best for you and I don't have to explain myself or take your concerns into account about the economy"

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be preached to by others and always like their views and concerns to at least be considered and not summarily dismissed without evaluation.

3. People have no simpathy for arrogant individuals with double standards when they fall flat on their face. Income Trust, Election spending investigation, calling an unecessary Election etc..

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People tend to kick the arrogant when their down especially when they have been wronged and no concessions or appologies have been granted from the arrogant individual.

4. People like to be treated as equals - Harper never has given the voter and their concerns the respect they deserve

u]Basic human reason for impact on polling - [/u]People will punish the people they see as disrepecting them.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I agree with your points.

[Moonbox]

First we have to give us the Canadian electorate public the respect we deserve ... We are not as easy to fool as our leaders would think us to be. While I have more often than not voted Liberal because of my own personal view on how I see our country and where it's heading. That being said I am not against voting another party if I believe that their path fits with my personal expectations of Canada.

I think the electorate gets more respect than it deserves. The electorate is incredibly easy to fool and it has always been that way. The average voter is NOTHING like the average poster on this forum. The very fact that you're posting here means you have 100x more interest in our political system than the average Canadian does. The average Canadian votes blindly based on what:

a ) They see on their chosen TV channel

b ) They read in their chosen newspaper

That's really as far as it goes. Given that newspapers and TV stations are heavily partisan most of the time you're never going to get a clear and objective opinion.

You really have to spend hours and hours researching the issues like we do here and arguing with people from opposite persectives to have an inkling of what's going on. It's a FACT that most Canadians don't do that. Conservatives, Liberals, NDP'ers...it doesn't matter who you're talking about. The average voter doesn't have a clue.

1. Being critical of the other parties economics when the CPC had not even bothered to prepare anything the public could compare.

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be critcized by others who bring nothing to the table it always raises the ire of people who have put forth an effort - the voting public can relate and finds this very annoying.

2. People who preach and act in an parental role - Harper comes across as preachy "I know whats best for you and I don't have to explain myself or take your concerns into account about the economy"

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be preached to by others and always like their views and concerns to at least be considered and not summarily dismissed without evaluation.

The strategy here is he wanted to come across as the candidate with the most 'leadership' qualities. He wanted to show a calm and measured image who would act prudently and responsibly. The other parties' economic plans are, in my educated opinion (I work as an advisor for investments and went to university for it etc), knee-jerk plans that most assuredly WILL hurt the economy. Jack Layton's plan is to raise corporate taxes. That has never helped ANY economy ANYWHERE. Dion's plan has been picked apart by economists and they are ALL saying it will raise prices and cost Canadians more in taxes. Harper's steady hand plan IS a good plan for the economy for the time being.

The problem, however, is that the average voter/investor is infinetly stupid and when they saw the stock market go down 800 points in one day, that all of the sudden meant Harper was wrong about everything, it was all his fault and somehow higher taxes and prices would somehow reverse this. It makes no sense but that's not important to the average voter.

3. People have no simpathy for arrogant individuals with double standards when they fall flat on their face. Income Trust, Election spending investigation, calling an unecessary Election etc..

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People tend to kick the arrogant when their down especially when they have been wronged and no concessions or appologies have been granted from the arrogant individual.

4. People like to be treated as equals - Harper never has given the voter and their concerns the respect they deserve

u]Basic human reason for impact on polling - [/u]People will punish the people they see as disrepecting them.

This one I'll have to agree with. Harper has shown himself as a giant hypocrite and as PM everyone focuses on him more. The opposition is just as bad or worse, but as PM the focus is going to be on him.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Moonbox

[manwithnoname]

How about getting that punishment set to be a public one

Here is what I have set up, lets petition the government and ask them to "Depose" him like all other tyrants should be treated:

http://thebenefactory.ca/

Read my rant there, and see what I think we can do on the options link and pick one or both link to the petition(s), and get it filled by people who wants the same as you.

Fairer Representation and Fire Harper links to page that are printer friendly (no image or color) for you to use by going under file and choosing print, it will create a list of 100 once filled to make it easier to count.

I am just starting online so I am unable in that short time to create a database to collect one on the site so if you are good at this email me we can help the cause for a Better Canada!

A Canadian voice amongst many others!

Let's look at the CPC, Harper and their actions and words and compare it to the slide in polling that has occured.

First we have to give us the Canadian electorate public the respect we deserve ... We are not as easy to fool as our leaders would think us to be. While I have more often than not voted Liberal because of my own personal view on how I see our country and where it's heading. That being said I am not against voting another party if I believe that their path fits with my personal expectations of Canada.

Major Blunders always come down to simple human reactions and basic belief systems

1. Being critical of the other parties economics when the CPC had not even bothered to prepare anything the public could compare.

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be critcized by others who bring nothing to the table it always raises the ire of people who have put forth an effort - the voting public can relate and finds this very annoying.

2. People who preach and act in an parental role - Harper comes across as preachy "I know whats best for you and I don't have to explain myself or take your concerns into account about the economy"

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be preached to by others and always like their views and concerns to at least be considered and not summarily dismissed without evaluation.

3. People have no simpathy for arrogant individuals with double standards when they fall flat on their face. Income Trust, Election spending investigation, calling an unecessary Election etc..

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People tend to kick the arrogant when their down especially when they have been wronged and no concessions or appologies have been granted from the arrogant individual.

4. People like to be treated as equals - Harper never has given the voter and their concerns the respect they deserve

u]Basic human reason for impact on polling - [/u]People will punish the people they see as disrepecting them.

[myata]

It maybe that. Or just that folks finally gave themselves time to sit back and think things over. Or both.

Harper wanted a majortity. He wanted it so badly that he sidestepped his own law introduced with so much pomp ("transparency and responsibility" agenda).

But then you think about it, it does not make any sense. Why exactly would he need that majority for? He hasn't introduced and new groundbreaking ideas. Has not started new longterm projects. Most (all?) he did (other than maybe drops of beans here and there in scattered tax cuts) can be qualified with a prefix "un": undo country's committment to Kyoto; weaken gun control (by undoing long gun registry); turning Canada's independent international position into a weak echo of that of the american administration.

I think Canadians see this quite obvious situation: Harper hasn't made a case for a majority; his record speaks in volumes that he does not deserve, nor need it. They make the only possible conclusion: he wants power not to advance their fortunes, in both short and long term, but his own.

[Argus]

First we have to give us the Canadian electorate public the respect we deserve ... We are not as easy to fool as our leaders would think us to be.

I disagree. I have always disagreed. By and large, the electorate are made up of bleating sheep who who can not only be easily herded, but who want to be herded. Collectively, they know almost nothing about any of the issues that concern them, and are too intellectually lazy to bother actually investigating or reading to find out more.

Major Blunders always come down to simple human reactions and basic belief systems

1. Being critical of the other parties economics when the CPC had not even bothered to prepare anything the public could compare.

Their record is what you compare. Their statements and economic actions over the past two odd years - which, of course, most voters weren't paying attention to because "all that economic stuff" is boring. Were you watching last year when Harper told you this was coming? Of course not. Were you paying attention when he talked about it earlier this month? Of course not. do you have any idea why they cut corporate taxes to stimulate the economy? Of course not.

Basic human reason for impact on polling - People don't like to be critcized by others who bring nothing to the table it always raises the ire of people who have put forth an effort - the voting public can relate and finds this very annoying.

And yet, no one resents Stephan Dion for constantly preaching while having no economic plan of his own beyond "When we are elected, we'll ask people what we should be doing"?

His "Green Shift" is not an economic plan, remember, nor is it presented as one. It's an income redistribution plan which aims to penalize high polluters (read industry and business) and as such will actually have a negative impact on the economy.

2. People who preach and act in an parental role - Harper comes across as preachy "I know whats best for you and I don't have to explain myself or take your concerns into account about the economy"

I don't think I've ever seen anyone more preachy than Jack Layton. Oddly, you don't criticise him.

[Argus]

How about getting that punishment set to be a public one

Here is what I have set up, lets petition the government and ask them to "Depose" him like all other tyrants should be treated:

Apparently your understanding of democracy is as shallow as your understanding of basic economics. The fact an elected leader disagrees with your junior high class on how to run the country doesn't make him a tyrant. And the way to "depose" him is to vote in an election, which, thankfully, you and the rest of your junior high class aren't allowed to do yet.

[Argus]

I think the electorate gets more respect than it deserves. The electorate is incredibly easy to fool and it has always been that way. The average voter is NOTHING like the average poster on this forum. The very fact that you're posting here means you have 100x more interest in our political system than the average Canadian does. The average Canadian votes blindly based on what:

a ) They see on their chosen TV channel

b ) They read in their chosen newspaper

And most of them don't read the newspaper or watch the news on TV. Even most of the posters here are idiots when it comes to basic issues. Most are young and haven't lived much, and others are ideologues who cling to whatever their party says no matter how stupid it is. Whatever their party is for, they're for. Whatever their party is against, they're against.

If Jack Layton came out tomorrow and said Canada should amalgamate with Cuba half the lefty posters would be here the next day saying what a great idea it was.

[TOhasCLASS]

From some of the comments on the board I think some people are too focused on what they want and what their belief system is ....

We have to keep in mind that life is never black and white it is always grey.

The only way anything works is balance, concessions and colaboration and the Harper government just don't see the basic human element that is a very important component of people's decisions. I would not necessarily say that people are all sheep ... there are a contigent that don't have the time to research politics or are swayed by public opinion, tv ads ect. but the general uninformed don't vote period. Each person decision is based on their personal belief system and to say one person's vision of Canada is wrong becasue they want more social programs or they want comfort at a time of need is wrong. The truth of the matter is we can only truly evaluate what governments do by looking at what they have done right and what they have done wrong and determine if the next guy deserves the opportunity to do better.

Armchair critics and so-called professionals in their chosen feild can only be trusted to a certain degree because we are all imperfect in our prognostications.

I personally think Steven Harper and the CPC are far to rigid, distant and oblivious to the average Canadian to lead in this time of change. His lack of human intrest and understanding of the human element is his undoing.

I truly believe his party has done nothing positive for Canada unlike parties of the past who have had failures but also brought something to the table which when built upon has given Canada it's standing in the world.

Pearson

introduced universal health care, student loans, the Canada Pension Plan, the Order of Canada, and the current Canadian flag, convened the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism and groundbreaking work at the United Nations, and in international diplomacy.

Trudeau

national unity, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, showing Canadians that confidence and passion in your country is important

Clark

while histenior was short his considered by many to be a good man who cares deeply about Canada and was respected by his political foes in a very sincere way.

Mulroney

Probably our most vilified prime minister however the NAFTA agreement has provided many opportunities for Canada .... (provided we don't give our water and oil away )

Chreitien / Martin

brought unprecidented economic stability to Canada and managed the finances better than any party in Canadian history ... dug Canada out from financial problems and brought Canada unprecidented prosperity.

[myata]

Agreed. Harper hasn't done anything noticeable (other than in the negative sense, ie "undone"). What in the heck does he need his freaking majority for??

Edited October 9, 2008 by myata

[Argus]

Chreitien / Martin

brought unprecidented economic stability to Canada and managed the finances better than any party in Canadian history ... dug Canada out from financial problems and brought Canada unprecidented prosperity.

He did not bring economic stability to Canada. Or can you point out what he did to accomplish this? No? He was graced by a strong economy which was responding to the world economy - principally our American neighbours and their demand for goods and services.

Managed our finances better? How hard is it to manage your finances when you have a huge surplus every year? I can tell you that as someone who was once poor, it's a lot easier to manage my finances nowadays. Takes far less care and effort, and there's much more room for laziness and mistakes. Dug us out of financial problems? How? By basking in the glow of the American economy and all that money which came in because of it? Brought us unprecedented prosperity? How?

The good times had nothing whatsoever to do with Chretien or Martin, just as this current economic mess has nothing to do with Harper.

[Smallc]

The good times had nothing whatsoever to do with Chretien or Martin, just as this current economic mess has nothing to do with Harper.

Just keep telling yourself that and everything will be OK.

[Argus]

Just keep telling yourself that and everything will be OK.

As Andrew Coyne noted, none of the opposition parties are mentioning one single thing Harper should have done and hasn't, or should be doing and isn't. Nor do either of them have any ideas for what THEY would be doing other than, you know, raising taxes on business.

[independent]

He did not bring economic stability to Canada. Or can you point out what he did to accomplish this? No? He was graced by a strong economy which was responding to the world economy - principally our American neighbours and their demand for goods and services.

Managed our finances better? How hard is it to manage your finances when you have a huge surplus every year? I can tell you that as someone who was once poor, it's a lot easier to manage my finances nowadays. Takes far less care and effort, and there's much more room for laziness and mistakes. Dug us out of financial problems? How? By basking in the glow of the American economy and all that money which came in because of it? Brought us unprecedented prosperity? How?

The good times had nothing whatsoever to do with Chretien or Martin, just as this current economic mess has nothing to do with Harper.

He had a huge surplus every year because he budgeted for a huge surplus(Instead of trying to buy votes). Then they took some of the surplus to pay down the debt. Harper took that cushion away so if there were any unexpected expenditure he would either run a deficit or he would have too look for savings somewhere else. I know I learned that with my own finances that it was a good idea too have a cushion in place.

The economic mess now is a result of Bush economics which has been praised by Harper.

You have to understand that the Harper believes in unregulated business. Let the successful businesses do well and let the poorly run business fail. That in theory will mazimize overall profits. The trouble with that is the workers for the companies tend to pay the price for corporate mismanagement. Things can get quite unstable like it has in the states. Also what happens is there is a very unequal devision of wealth. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

If you believe the rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve too be poor then Harper is your man.

If you believe it the basic premise of free enterprise but want some stabilization then you support the Liberals.

If you believe in the basic pemise of free enterprise but want a lot of government tinkering then you should vote for the NDP.

[Argus]

He had a huge surplus every year because he budgeted for a huge surplus(Instead of trying to buy votes).

Well if he had a large surplus on purpose then he was breaking the law and lying when he came out with false books every year. But I understand where honesty isn't consider of any particular importance to you guys when we're talking Liberal. As for not trying to buy votes - that's correct to an extent. They didn't need to buy votes while the right was in dissaray, so Chretien did nothing at all, even while health care continued to deteriorate.

Then they took some of the surplus to pay down the debt. Harper took that cushion away so if there were any unexpected expenditure he would either run a deficit or he would have too look for savings somewhere else.

Soo, let me get this straight. You are in favour of the government collecting many billions of dollars more from people than it actually needs every year just in case they find an unexpected use for it? Do you voluntarily pay more taxes just in case the government might find a use for it somewhere?

I know I learned that with my own finances that it was a good idea too have a cushion in place.

Yes, and Harper has always maintained one; a cushion, not a mattress.

The economic mess now is a result of Bush economics which has been praised by Harper.

Can you perhaps find me some recent quotes where Harper praises Bush economics?

Edited October 9, 2008 by Argus

[manwithnoname]

No Good Deed goes Unpunished

Basic human reason for impact on polling - [/u]People will punish the people they see as disrepecting them.

Edited October 9, 2008 by manwithnoname

[M.Dancer]

No Good Deed goes Unpunished

Basic human reason for impact on polling - [/u]People will punish the people they see as disrepecting them.

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