capricorn Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 I just can't understand how this bushwa keeps getting spread around! One thing about the left. They have cornered the market on fear mongering. They are apt pupils of Dion and Layton. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Smallc Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 One thing about the left. They have cornered the market on fear mongering. They are apt pupils of Dion and Layton. Yes.....because the right never resorts to fear mongering. Quote
myata Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Really! After watching CPC attack ads about Dion (have one recorded, for future reference) I soooooo believe you. For the reality check though: concervative attack ads and some policies e.g Crime Agenda, are pure and simple fearmongering, having no reflection in reality. Wait, they tried to play the fear card on economy too (see same attack adds), it just didn't turn the way it was planned. Too bad... don't cry now. Unlike which, Harper - Bush connection is based on real confirmed facts, i.e.: - Harper's foreign policies, including Iraq - Afghanistan; - Harper's approach to crime (tough justice - more prisons); - Harper's approach to managing the economy (give tax credit to everybody and whatever happens, happens). Oh wait, you don't make any profit to enjoy your tax cut? Too bad for you ...; - Harper's approach to the environment (kick Kyoto while doing nothing himself); I wonder is there anything that Harper touched where he's done any different from J.W.?? Edited October 8, 2008 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
nothinarian Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Yes.....because the right never resorts to fear mongering. A tax on everything Not worth the risk Oh wait that was not fear mongering Truth be told they all do it and will continue to do so because going negative works according to the experts see Kinsella,Rove, etc... Quote Common sense is not so common. - Voltaire
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 That's not true.I lived in Socialism. We didn't have the latest consumer goods the West did but it was very far from misery. Having said that we all know that pure Socialism cannot survive economically and is lacking development stimuli. It also tends to become increasingly rigid and burocratic. This is why the benefits of Capitalism have to be combined with the benefits of Socialism so that power is shared between Corporations and People. I think Canada has found its place somewhere in between (thanks to the Liberal party) but the existence of NDP signals that there's momentum for further shift to the left. I think we should consider national child care and national universities to give a fairer opportunity to new immigrants and lower classes. So if it was so wonderful why come to Canada, I also see they taught you nothing of Churchill, See the signature below. I can point to two countries that are currently living in Socialism, Cuba and Venezuela. Would you leave Canada to live in either? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Kitch Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 So if it was so wonderful why come to Canada, I also see they taught you nothing of Churchill, See the signature below. I can point to two countries that are currently living in Socialism, Cuba and Venezuela. Would you leave Canada to live in either? Again, you fucking try to tell somebody else what they think!!! Are you really that fucking thick skulled and ignorant??? You'd probably argue with a person eating a hamburger about whether or not they like beef, wouldn't you? Quote
gc1765 Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 No need for insults, or that kind of language. That will get you banned very quickly. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Kitch Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 No need for insults, or that kind of language.That will get you banned very quickly. My apologies to the forum, I don't want to be banned. Quote
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) Again, you fucking try to tell somebody else what they think!!! You'd probably argue with a person eating a hamburger about whether or not they like beef, wouldn't you? What in that post is telling PC what to think? I am tring to find out how far they will follow the socialist ideology. I am not telling anyone what to think just tying to quantify what they are looking for in a socialist state. Are you really that fucking thick skulled and ignorant??? WOW you have anger problems my friend! Edited October 9, 2008 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 So if it was so wonderful why come to Canada, I also see they taught you nothing of Churchill, See the signature below. I can point to two countries that are currently living in Socialism, Cuba and Venezuela. Would you leave Canada to live in either? Did I say the extremes are good? Quote You are what you do.
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I just can't understand how this bushwa keeps getting spread around!No one has said anything about locking up violent young offenders with adult criminals. I'm not even sure if that would be legal! Separate facilities SUCH AS ARE ALREADY IN USE are obvious! It's just an unfair debating trick. Those using it simply want to attack the Conservatives and are attaching an unproven assumption onto the main issue of getting tougher on youth crime. I realize that politics is a blood sport but to me, the use of such tactics by any side goes to character... Bill, I think one of us may have missed something. My understanding was that Conservatives ARE talking about locking up violent young offenders in adult prisons for (up to) LIFE. Quote You are what you do.
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Did I say the extremes are good? No but I was curious to what degree you would like to have socialism in this country taken. Under Trudeau we weren't that far from where Venezuela is now. Trudeau idolized Castro and Kruschev, he nationalized many industries and even declared a police state in quebec. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
jbg Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I wrote about the social/political perspectives, not the parties. I don't give a rats ass about the stupid, childish quasi-debate about the parties. Response to the merits of my posts, without an attack? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 And your analysis of education in Canada is ridiculous. Are you a teacher? Involved with schools? Perhaps you have kids that are in schools? Well, none of that matters because what you said doesn't actually have anything to do with what I said about CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT! (Which is a nice way of saying dealing with and preventing misbehaviour). Teachers are members of a union and can't not be... which isn't true... only if they want to work in a publicly funded school, and there's a reason for it and it has to do with parents. The ministry dictates the curriculum... which is only partly true. I forget what else you said, but do either of these points have ANYTHING to do with how teachers manage their classroom? I AM one of the teachers who dislikes the limited freedom I have in terms of what I teach... which is not all THAT limited. Teachers in public schools need unions to back them when parents bring ridiculous lawsuits against them, and it does happen. There are other reasons, but that's a big one. Does that mean that we feel so restricted that we turn around and police our students? Why would that make sense? And how about you pick a course and pick up a curriculum document from the ministry... if you want I can send you a pdf of any one you want. I don't like them, but they don't restrict me as much as you seem to think they do. You must be one of the two teachers I met from Peterborough, ON to whom I had to explain who Montcalm & Wolfe were and what the Plains of Abraham was. And I'm a Yank who knows nothing about Canada. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 No but I was curious to what degree you would like to have socialism in this country taken. Under Trudeau we weren't that far from where Venezuela is now. Trudeau idolized Castro and Kruschev, he nationalized many industries and even declared a police state in quebec. Hahaha! Even Hu Jintao knows better But apparently Bush does not Quote You are what you do.
independent Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) No but I was curious to what degree you would like to have socialism in this country taken. Under Trudeau we weren't that far from where Venezuela is now. Trudeau idolized Castro and Kruschev, he nationalized many industries and even declared a police state in quebec. You could have a good career as a history revisionist. Trudeau studied politics including socialism. He declared the war measures act to deal with the FLQ. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...s=A1ARTA0008141 Edited October 9, 2008 by independent Quote
Wild Bill Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Bill, I think one of us may have missed something.My understanding was that Conservatives ARE talking about locking up violent young offenders in adult prisons for (up to) LIFE. We need a lawyer! That would settle this once and for all. As for "locking up violent young offenders in adult prisons for (up to) LIFE." - we don't keep ADULTS in adult prisons for up to life! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Argus Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Again, you fucking try to tell somebody else what they think!!! Are you really that fucking thick skulled and ignorant???You'd probably argue with a person eating a hamburger about whether or not they like beef, wouldn't you? Is this how you deal with disruptive students? I'm not seeing that careful management of distractions and that liberal philosophy of embracing different motivatiosn and goals here, guy. I'm seeing an intollerance of disagreement which is pretty much what you implied were the markings of a conservative. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) Yes.....because the right never resorts to fear mongering. Saying Stephan Dion is not a leader is not fearmongering. Saying that putting in whopping new taxes on business now would harm the economy is not fearmongering either. Fearmongering is running around like Layton and Dion claiming the economy is tanking and it's all Harper's fault - although they know it's not and they're being very careful to only imply things, not to say them directly. Hypocrisy is constantly deriding Harper for not having a plan when he has been carrying one our for months an dthey have none. Dishonesty is constantly using the term "revenue neutral" to imply this mean there would be no tax increase to individuals or business when they know it means nothing of the sort. Most business, especially manufacturing, would be hit hard by a carbon tax, as would most of the middle class. Stupidity is believing anything Dion or Layton say on economic issues. Edited October 9, 2008 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Bill, I think one of us may have missed something.My understanding was that Conservatives ARE talking about locking up violent young offenders in adult prisons for (up to) LIFE. The plan is to give the option to judges when dealing with the most serious, violent offenders who, in the judge's opinion, are already hardened criminals who knew what they were doing, to impose more serious sentences than the current Young Offender's Act allows for - including life sentences for murder. The sentence would be served in a juvenile facility until they reach their 18th birthday, then they would be transferred to an adult facility to serve the remainder of the sentence. This would more easily allow, for example, a judge to sentence a 16 year old gang member who had murdered someone in a drive-by shooting, to say, 10 or 20 years in prison, instead of the maximum of 5. You "can" move 16 and 17 year olds now into adult court, but it's very difficult to do so. You cannot move anyone under 16 under any circumstances so far as I'm aware. So if a 15 year old gang member murders 10 people in a school shooting, 5 years is the maximum you can give them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jbg Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 You could have a good career as a history revisionist. Trudeau studied politics including socialism. He declared the war measures act to deal with the FLQ.http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...s=A1ARTA0008141 Then why his race to recognize Cuba and Red China shortly after he took office? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 The plan is to give the option to judges when dealing with the most serious, violent offenders who, in the judge's opinion, are already hardened criminals who knew what they were doing, to impose more serious sentences than the current Young Offender's Act allows for - including life sentences for murder. The sentence would be served in a juvenile facility until they reach their 18th birthday, then they would be transferred to an adult facility to serve the remainder of the sentence. This would more easily allow, for example, a judge to sentence a 16 year old gang member who had murdered someone in a drive-by shooting, to say, 10 or 20 years in prison, instead of the maximum of 5. You "can" move 16 and 17 year olds now into adult court, but it's very difficult to do so. You cannot move anyone under 16 under any circumstances so far as I'm aware. So if a 15 year old gang member murders 10 people in a school shooting, 5 years is the maximum you can give them. Thanks for the clarification. Quote You are what you do.
Kitch Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 What in that post is telling PC what to think?I am tring to find out how far they will follow the socialist ideology. I am not telling anyone what to think just tying to quantify what they are looking for in a socialist state. WOW you have anger problems my friend! I shouldn't have reacted like that, I admit. I'll explain why I did though... not to defend myself or justify, but so that hopefully my reasons are understood. I'm not going to sugar coat it... your response to my first post in this thread was ridiculous. I don't know how anyone could dispute that... but that doesn't matter. Soon after I read that, I read the post from the guy who was homeless for a while and made it out and now owns his own company and to tell you the truth, I was touched by that. I sincerely felt for the guy (sympathy and pride). And your response to him was to question whether he was REALLY happy that he was given opportunity through social programs OR if he was proud of himself for working hard. I thought, how dare this guy assume to know what another person, who dealt with such things, knows or feels... or imply that he shouldn't feel the way that he claimed. Sorry dude, but that's arrogant and ignorant. From there, I just got more and more angry with things that you had to say. Like branding me a Layton supporter because I'm a teacher. Like calling me a liar because I used an unsupported anecdote... you can attack the merit of my words, but to attack me is both unfair and illogical. A lot of things you say DO indicate that you either presume to know what people think (not that you tell them what to think... explicitly), or imply that their opinions should be different... eg. the guy who was homeless, the guy who said socialism isn't that bad. He said it WASN'T THAT BAD! He did not say that he like it better or that it was good... not that bad. Regardless, you, and others, are right. I shouldn't have gotten angry... really, this is an online discussion with people that I don't know and never will. Still, if you don't like something that I've said, do me a favour and attack my words in a logical way. Don't attack me personally. Calling a person stupid does not make them wrong. Showing why you think they're wrong can. Quote
Kitch Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Is this how you deal with disruptive students? I'm not seeing that careful management of distractions and that liberal philosophy of embracing different motivatiosn and goals here, guy. I'm seeing an intollerance of disagreement which is pretty much what you implied were the markings of a conservative. No, I don't get angry with students easily. This is definitely not how I would react in a classroom. Your nice little cheap shot doesn't work though, guy. This isn't a classroom. I'm not a 'teacher' on these forums. Are teachers not people too? Or do we fold up and get filed away at night? That's a very adolescent perspective my friend. And my intolerance is not for disagreement. On the contrary I expect disagreement here... it's what these forums are all about. Take a look at some of the other exchanges between me and dude... I don't expect you to agree with me getting angry, but I'd hope you'd understand. Quote
Alta4ever Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 You could have a good career as a history revisionist. Trudeau studied politics including socialism. He declared the war measures act to deal with the FLQ.http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...s=A1ARTA0008141 I know what the use of the war measures act was in response to 2 kidnapings. YES REALLY 2. Never before was the War measures act used not in two world wars, not in the War in 1812, not at any other point in Canadian History. He stepped on the rights of all Canadians that day, and showed his tendancies to socialist totalitarian control. That is the history of the left in this country. Trudeau didn't just study socialism, communisim and fascism, he idolized leaders of these ideologies. He beleived in some very scary ideas. There are a number of books out their, even one that was an authorized Biography (by him no less) that he provided the a lot of the written documentation (things he had saved). I beleive it is called Young Trudeau. You should read it. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
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