The Majoritarian Dominated Media

[eyeball]

This is pretty disgraceful really and its probably one more reason for feeling cynical towards our country's primitive system of electing governments. Now we can add feeling betrayed amongst other things.

This election is like a snapshot of Canadian political culture. You don't see it standing this still very often. Snap it fast...

...What the snapshot shows is that, among the population, we have no fierce "left-right" conflict of the sort the media like to portray.

Link

If the CBC's Heather Mallick is anything to judge by they seem as complicit as anyone. Its fairly obvious private media is motivated by profit and conflict obviously generates more than consensus, but what could be compel the CBC to toe the majoritarian line?

These http://votestrategic.ca/index.html and similar websites and other ABC efforts on things like Facebook...

....are democratic grassroots initiatives that the media have sparsely mentioned, perhaps for the same reasons they largely oppose proportional representation - which I admit I've never quite managed to grasp.

Perhaps you have to want to grasp it first. The Fourth Estate seems more like a Fifth Column for whatever establishment it is that insists on maintaining this pathetic system known as First-past-the-post.

[blueblood]

This is pretty disgraceful really and its probably one more reason for feeling cynical towards our country's primitive system of electing governments. Now we can add feeling betrayed amongst other things.

Link

If the CBC's Heather Mallick is anything to judge by they seem as complicit as anyone. Its fairly obvious private media is motivated by profit and conflict obviously generates more than consensus, but what could be compel the CBC to toe the majoritarian line?

These http://votestrategic.ca/index.html and similar websites and other ABC efforts on things like Facebook...

Perhaps you have to want to grasp it first. The Fourth Estate seems more like a Fifth Column for whatever establishment it is that insists on maintaining this pathetic system known as First-past-the-post.

FTPT is better than PR and worse than referendums.

Tell us how PR is the best and most democratic voting system out there.

[blueblood]

dp

Edited October 4, 2008 by blueblood

[M.Dancer]

PR is the system most desired by people whose beliefs are so off the beten track they cannot get anyone elected.....it is the political system of systemic losers...

[eyeball]

.....it is the political system of systemic losers...

Yep, like the US and Britain for example, just about the only other democracies who like us are still stuck in the past.

[blueblood]

Yep, like the US and Britain for example, just about the only other democracies who like us are still stuck in the past.

The US and Britain are PR???

[eyeball]

The US and Britain are PR???

No, they're losers. One already lost its empire and became irrelevant and the other is going down the same road, except a lot faster.

[blueblood]

No, they're losers. One already lost its empire and became irrelevant and the other is going down the same road, except a lot faster.

Britain is hardly a loser. It is one of the few European countries that makes sense, it just needs to fix it's politically corectedness obsession.

America is most definetely not a loser, it survived the great depression, it will survive this. Other than that, all those European countries you idolize, combined still don't have the economic capacity as the US, why are they in dire straits if they are run so much better?

The fact that the US doesn't get influenced by what happens in Europe proves it is most definetely not a loser.

As for democracy goes, how do you get more democratic than the countries who brought in the Magna Carta/parliament and the US with its umpteen elections every year?

As for losers lets look at the other countries you like, USSR - biggest loser of all, Venezuela - how does a country with tons of oil have such a low standard of living, Scandinavia - lets tax everything by 50-60% and see who wants to live here, Cuba - how many people left on dinghy's???

Edited October 4, 2008 by blueblood

[eyeball]

As for democracy goes, how do you get more democratic than the countries who brought in the Magna Carta/parliament and the US with its umpteen elections every year?

Democracy evolves, like it did when the US revolted against the tyranny of Britain.

As for losers lets look at the other countries you like, USSR - biggest loser of all,

Oh yes, I just adored how democratic and representative the USSR's electoral system was, diito for Cuba and Venezuela. It's encouraging to see you've made the link between less representation and losing now all you have to do is make the leap.

Scandinavia - lets tax everything by 50-60% and see who wants to live here,

Nobody likes taxes and yet most Scandanavians including the one's I've met seem pretty happy with their PR systems, government and lot in life. I'm not aware of any mass immigration of Scandanavians to Britain or the US, are you?

[Kitch]

Britain is hardly a loser. It is one of the few European countries that makes sense, it just needs to fix it's politically corectedness obsession.

America is most definetely not a loser, it survived the great depression, it will survive this. Other than that, all those European countries you idolize, combined still don't have the economic capacity as the US, why are they in dire straits if they are run so much better?

The fact that the US doesn't get influenced by what happens in Europe proves it is most definetely not a loser.

As for democracy goes, how do you get more democratic than the countries who brought in the Magna Carta/parliament and the US with its umpteen elections every year?

As for losers lets look at the other countries you like, USSR - biggest loser of all, Venezuela - how does a country with tons of oil have such a low standard of living, Scandinavia - lets tax everything by 50-60% and see who wants to live here, Cuba - how many people left on dinghy's???

Why are conservative types so arrogant?

A nation's ability to create/absorb monetary wealth only increases the standard of living for its citizens to a point... then a few people just continue to get richer.

Call me a prophet, but I see the conservative response to my assertion being one of these two (seemingly the only two conservative responses possible):

1. Ignore opinions that are very different from yours because acknowledging them gives them legitimacy.

2. Ridicule people that have opinions very different from yours because making them look stupid refutes their point.

[blueblood]

Democracy evolves, like it did when the US revolted against the tyranny of Britain.

Oh yes, I just adored how democratic and representative the USSR's electoral system was, diito for Cuba and Venezuela. It's encouraging to see you've made the link between less representation and losing now all you have to do is make the leap.

Nobody likes taxes and yet most Scandanavians including the one's I've met seem pretty happy with their PR systems, government and lot in life. I'm not aware of any mass immigration of Scandanavians to Britain or the US, are you?

I'm not aware of any mass immigration to Scandinavia are you???

And most Canadians around here seem pretty happy with FPTP system, you know accountable representatives and all. The average Albertan is a lot more happier than the average Scandinavian.

[blueblood]

Why are conservative types so arrogant?

A nation's ability to create/absorb monetary wealth only increases the standard of living for its citizens to a point... then a few people just continue to get richer.

Call me a prophet, but I see the conservative response to my assertion being one of these two (seemingly the only two conservative responses possible):

1. Ignore opinions that are very different from yours because acknowledging them gives them legitimacy.

2. Ridicule people that have opinions very different from yours because making them look stupid refutes their point.

Venezuela's government has more ability to create and absorb monetary wealth and the majority of it's citizens live in squalor.

Alberta, another oil producing area has the majority of it's citizens living better than any others in the world. A Tim Hortons worker makes 19 bucks an hour in Alberta, how much does the average coffee shop worker make in Venezuela???

Ergo, socialism sucks.

[Kitch]

Venezuela's government has more ability to create and absorb monetary wealth and the majority of it's citizens live in squalor.

Alberta, another oil producing area has the majority of it's citizens living better than any others in the world. A Tim Hortons worker makes 19 bucks an hour in Alberta, how much does the average coffee shop worker make in Venezuela???

Ergo, socialism sucks.

And what does that $19/h do for Albertans who suffer the effects of sour gas?

[Kitch]

Venezuela's government has more ability to create and absorb monetary wealth and the majority of it's citizens live in squalor.

Alberta, another oil producing area has the majority of it's citizens living better than any others in the world. A Tim Hortons worker makes 19 bucks an hour in Alberta, how much does the average coffee shop worker make in Venezuela???

Ergo, socialism sucks.

On that note, why do you assume that things like coffee shops are important to Venezuelans? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing that the "majority of its citizens live in squalor", I don't claim to "know" things like that. But perhaps they place importance on different things than the people of Alberta do. You can't REALLY compare the two regions like that.

[blueblood]

On that note, why do you assume that things like coffee shops are important to Venezuelans? I'm not disagreeing or agreeing that the "majority of its citizens live in squalor", I don't claim to "know" things like that. But perhaps they place importance on different things than the people of Alberta do. You can't REALLY compare the two regions like that.

This is Tim Horton's we are talking about, this is a job college kids or young people or people with few skills work at, and they are getting paid 19$ an hour in Alberta. What would a job like that run in Venezuela?

I can easily compare the two regions, they are both oil producing powerhouses, one has a right wing government and one has a left wing government. Which one has its citizen's better off? It starts with an A.

[blueblood]

And what does that $19/h do for Albertans who suffer the effects of sour gas?

Oil field workers get 25-45 dollars an hour for manual work, and lets not get into consultants and the other brass of the oilfields.

The Albertans are in better shape to deal with sour gas than venezuelans

[Smallc]

Oil field workers get 25-45 dollars an hour for manual work,

But how much does that really buy in Alberta? Not much in many cases.

[blueblood]

But how much does that really buy in Alberta? Not much in many cases.

Drive around Medicine Hat and Drive around Dauphin and ask that question again.

[Smallc]

Drive around Medicine Hat and Drive around Dauphin and ask that question again.

Your comparing a city of 60000 to a city of under 9000. Nice....

As far as that logic goes, you might as well have told me to drive around Winnipeg and then Toronto.

[blueblood]

Your comparing a city of 60000 to a city of under 9000. Nice....

As far as that logic goes, you might as well have told me to drive around Winnipeg and then Toronto.

your saying that the wages in alberta don't buy anything, size of a town shouldn't matter then shouldn't it?

Look at the average house and yard in Medicine hat and compare it to the average house and yard in Dauphin

[Smallc]

your saying that the wages in alberta don't buy anything, size of a town shouldn't matter then shouldn't it?

Look at the average house and yard in Medicine hat and compare it to the average house and yard in Dauphin

The fact is that even though there are far more people making higher amounts of money in Alberta than in many other places (though that is changing), that amount of money would go further in another place. If you could make $40 an hour in Manitoba, you would most likely be able to buy more than someone making $40 in Alberta. And don't try to tell me that no one here makes that amount of money. As I said, I realize that more people make that amount of money in Alberta. but it doesn't make it any less true that the money doesn't go as far.

Oh, and quit it with the Dauphin obsession. It isn't representative of the rest of the province and if you don't realize that your not paying attention.

[blueblood]

The fact is that even though there are far more people making higher amounts of money in Alberta than in many other places (though that is changing), that amount of money would go further in another place. If you could make $40 an hour in Manitoba, you would most likely be able to buy more than someone making $40 in Alberta. And don't try to tell me that no one here makes that amount of money. As I said, I realize that more people make that amount of money in Alberta. but it doesn't make it any less true that the money doesn't go as far.

Oh, and quit it with the Dauphin obsession. It isn't representative of the rest of the province and if you don't realize that your not paying attention.

And I'm saying the averages are playing out. The average person in AB has a higher standard of living than the average person in MB. That 40 bucks is still going pretty far.

[Smallc]

And I'm saying the averages are playing out. The average person in AB has a higher standard of living than the average person in MB. That 40 bucks is still going pretty far.

Yes, it is, your right, and I wasn't trying to take away from that.

[M.Dancer]

But how much does that really buy in Alberta? Not much in many cases.

Cost of living in Alberta isn't much different than anywhere else....$52,000 a year still allows you to live in relative comfort.

[White Doors]

Why are conservative types so arrogant?

A nation's ability to create/absorb monetary wealth only increases the standard of living for its citizens to a point... then a few people just continue to get richer.

Call me a prophet, but I see the conservative response to my assertion being one of these two (seemingly the only two conservative responses possible):

1. Ignore opinions that are very different from yours because acknowledging them gives them legitimacy.

2. Ridicule people that have opinions very different from yours because making them look stupid refutes their point.

first, you used the word 'arrogant'. In the context of your post, it would seem to me that you mean 'ignorant' (lack of knowledge).

Also, you paint all conservatives with the same broad strokes of a brush. Do you do this with other groups too?

Why would you presume that your belief system is more valid than others? Your whole post is an attempt to smear conservative voters/supporters but you offer nothing of substance at all.

Were you attempting to be ironic or are you yourself, a conservative supporter?

Thanks