Harper accused of plagiarizing Harris speech

jdobbin · October 5, 2008

thats harper's gamble...

Seems to be a gamble that may result in coming up short of a majority.

I'd suggest that in whatever form the opposition resembles after the election that if the government decides to make everything a confidence vote that they should get together and bring the government down the first time it happens. Go to an election or have the GG ask the opposition form the government.

blueblood · October 5, 2008

Seems to be a gamble that may result in coming up short of a majority.
I'd suggest that in whatever form the opposition resembles after the election that if the government decides to make everything a confidence vote that they should get together and bring the government down the first time it happens. Go to an election or have the GG ask the opposition form the government.

Harper comes out of that a winner as well.

The left half of the Libs has control of the party, combine that with the NDP, and combine that with the Bloc could spell economic disaster for the country. Harper can sit in opposition and laugh his way to a majority the next election.

If the left brings down the government on the first crack, they get to explain to taxpayers why we have to go through a multi-million dollar election campaign of what will eventually be worse economic times.

Interesting times...

betsy · October 5, 2008

I wonder - is it the shortage of speechwriters? Or Conservative ideas??

You should ask the Liberals that.

They probably ran out of ideas that's why according to Elizabeth may, the Liberals copied her Green plan.

And ask Dion who the heck was the great brain who stole the "Green Shift" name from a a businesswoman.

While it's almost impossible to check if speechwriters copy from somebody's work....a simple name-check on the other hand, to determine if a particular name is already taken, is actually almost mandatory.

Smallc · October 5, 2008

If the left brings down the government on the first crack, they get to explain to taxpayers why we have to go through a multi-million dollar election campaign of what will eventually be worse economic times.

The electors should understand that if the Conservatives are given a minority, they don't have a mandate to govern as if they have a majority and as a result they are often required to compromise. If they can't do that, then its obvious that they are unable to govern within their mandate and there should be an election, no matter the outcome. In the event of a win that second time though, I think it would be a message to the opposition parties to allow them to govern.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Smallc

blueblood · October 5, 2008

The electors should understand that if the Conservatives are given a minority, they don't have a mandate to govern as if they have a majority and as a result they are often required to compromise. If they can't do that, then its obvious that they are unable to govern within their mandate and there should be an election, no matter the outcome. In the event of a win that second time though, I think it would be a message to the opposition parties to allow them to govern.

the opposition also has to compromise. The electors should also understand that by electing yet another minority gov't, we get logjams and the threat of an election at the drop of a hat. Do you want another election in say March???

Allowing the opposition parties to govern would play right into Harper's hand. There would be a lot of dismay in the Liberals and their relevance would be questioned. Do most Liberal voters want Layton being part of dictating economic policy in Canada?

jdobbin · October 5, 2008

If the left brings down the government on the first crack, they get to explain to taxpayers why we have to go through a multi-million dollar election campaign of what will eventually be worse economic times.
Interesting times...

Or Harper sits on the opposition benches while a coalition government rules.

Smallc · October 5, 2008

the opposition also has to compromise. The electors should also understand that by electing yet another minority gov't, we get logjams and the threat of an election at the drop of a hat. Do you want another election in say March???

Questioning the validity of the choice that Canadians ultimately make is not really your place or the place of the parties. If the people want another minority, there will be one, and the government and the opposition will have to work within that or there will and should be another election.

blueblood · October 5, 2008

Or Harper sits on the opposition benches while a coalition government rules.

That would be a benefit to Harper watching that. The Liberals wouldn't be relevant. Do you want Jack Layton helping make economic policy?

blueblood · October 5, 2008

Questioning the validity of the choice that Canadians ultimately make is not really your place or the place of the parties. If the people want another minority, there will be one, and the government and the opposition will have to work within that or there will and should be another election.

If people want a minority, those are the tradeoffs.

Another election plays into the hands of Harper.

Smallc · October 5, 2008

If people want a minority, those are the tradeoffs.
Another election plays into the hands of Harper.

Depends on the issue. Also depends on the strength of the Liberals and whether or not they have thrown out the leader by that time. Also depends on whether or not Jack Layton performs well in this election and is able to move closer to the centre.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Smallc

blueblood · October 5, 2008

Depends on the issue. Also depends on the strength of the Liberals and whether or not they have thrown out the leader by that time. Also depends on whether or not Jack Layton performs well in this election and is able to move closer to the centre.

Look at it this way, if Harper goes down on the first confidence vote, he gets to go to the public and say that minority gov'ts do not work and the opposition gets to explain to the electorate why they are having another 300 million dollar election in tough economic times.

Smallc · October 5, 2008

Look at it this way, if Harper goes down on the first confidence vote, he gets to go to the public and say that minority gov'ts do not work and the opposition gets to explain to the electorate why they are having another 300 million dollar election in tough economic times.

As I said, it depends on the issue.

jdobbin · October 5, 2008

That would be a benefit to Harper watching that. The Liberals wouldn't be relevant. Do you want Jack Layton helping make economic policy?

You think it would benefit Harper to sit on the Opposition bench? I think not. How many kicks at the can do you think the Tories would give him?

As for a coalition government, it worked well for the Liberals a couple of times now.

blueblood · October 5, 2008

You think it would benefit Harper to sit on the Opposition bench? I think not. How many kicks at the can do you think the Tories would give him?
As for a coalition government, it worked well for the Liberals a couple of times now.

I don't know if a coalition gov't would work this time around with both the NDP and Liberals statistically tied and relying on the bloc. Cabinet meetings would be a gong show. Would McCallum like implementing Layton's policies? Would Canadians like a large turn to the left, I know you wouldn't.

harper or his replacement will be chomping at the bit in this circumstance.

jdobbin · October 5, 2008

I don't know if a coalition gov't would work this time around with both the NDP and Liberals statistically tied and relying on the bloc. Cabinet meetings would be a gong show. Would McCallum like implementing Layton's policies? Would Canadians like a large turn to the left, I know you wouldn't.
harper or his replacement will be chomping at the bit in this circumstance.

No matter what happens, the confidence measures on every bill won't be accepted. if Harper think he can go to an election by placing confidence, he may a price, the opposition may pay a price. The Conservatives should not think that they will be exempt from retribution for brinkmanship though and that this master plan will find acceptance.

Even with the collapse of the Liberals, the BQ continues to climb and make the dream of a majority evaporate with each passing day. Why does Harper think it will be different a month or two from now by going to the brink again?

blueblood · October 5, 2008

No matter what happens, the confidence measures on every bill won't be accepted. if Harper think he can go to an election by placing confidence, he may a price, the opposition may pay a price. The Conservatives should not think that they will be exempt from retribution for brinkmanship though and that this master plan will find acceptance.
Even with the collapse of the Liberals, the BQ continues to climb and make the dream of a majority evaporate with each passing day. Why does Harper think it will be different a month or two from now by going to the brink again?

We'll have to see, one of the strategists said a minority gov't wasn't a total loss for the tories. Harper will think it's different because he might figure the voters will be fed up. It's a risk he'll have to take and right spin would have to be applied.

jdobbin · October 5, 2008

We'll have to see, one of the strategists said a minority gov't wasn't a total loss for the tories. Harper will think it's different because he might figure the voters will be fed up. It's a risk he'll have to take and right spin would have to be applied.

The master strategist, huh? After the election I'm sure the spin will be that he has Duceppe right where he wants him.

Slim MacSquinty · October 5, 2008

Either way conservatives win, I doubt they had high expectations of a majority. My guess is that their strategy is twofold; Cons would love to see the Liberal party severely wobbled so that it takes them a couple of elections to rebuild, it would allow a bit of equalibrium into the civil service, the courts and other government agencies since its been 15 years of Liberal only appointments and Liberal dominated policies. Second I think it would be good to have the electorate take a long hard look at the alternatives of government and have the fundemental debate about what is government for, several years in this political turmoil has to eventually give people pause to reflect on that question.

Bryan · October 5, 2008

Either way conservatives win, I doubt they had high expectations of a majority. My guess is that their strategy is twofold; Cons would love to see the Liberal party severely wobbled so that it takes them a couple of elections to rebuild, it would allow a bit of equalibrium into the civil service, the courts and other government agencies since its been 15 years of Liberal only appointments and Liberal dominated policies. Second I think it would be good to have the electorate take a long hard look at the alternatives of government and have the fundemental debate about what is government for, several years in this political turmoil has to eventually give people pause to reflect on that question.

From the interviews I've seen/heard with Tom Flanagan, Harper very specifically does not want a majority yet. Being "just barely" in power keeps the Liberals thinking they are close to beating him. Like a gambling addict, they will just keep chasing the win while actually getting deeper in the hole. Makes them closer and closer to permanent defeat. If Harper gets a clear majority, then the Liberals will have time to pull back and regroup, and take four years to get back on their feet.

Slim MacSquinty · October 5, 2008

Perhaps your right, I don't believe this election is Harpers end game. Too long in the wildernss for the right has left an imbalance in the system, Harper is out to correct that.

sharkman · October 6, 2008

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=election2008
Seems like a failure of originality.

Will there be anyone left in the Tory warroom if this keeps up?

So, you didn't see this coming? I am not of the opinion that it just happened the one time, and now we have two. The lazy/unethical speechwriter could have done it 6 or 7 times. Someone is trickling these incidents out one at a time instead of years ago when it was most likely noticed. Hoping it will bring the Tories down, they are leaking them less than 2 weeks before the federal election. Kind of sad, really, that they have nothing of substance to win an election with. Those who accuse the Tories of American style governing are using American style politics to fight them!

Slim MacSquinty · October 6, 2008

This is really silly, I don't think this is all that unusual at all, somehow Beaker (Dion) has everyone thinking the politicians are writing exams not running an election campaign. Don't we have anything important to talk about?

jdobbin · October 6, 2008

This is really silly, I don't think this is all that unusual at all, somehow Beaker (Dion) has everyone thinking the politicians are writing exams not running an election campaign. Don't we have anything important to talk about?

Nope. Maybe after Harper releases his platform but for now I guess we can go on what he has copied from others in the past.

kengs333 · October 6, 2008

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=election2008
Seems like a failure of originality.

Will there be anyone left in the Tory warroom if this keeps up?

LOL

If there are two, there must be more...

CrazeeEddie · October 6, 2008

This is really silly, I don't think this is all that unusual at all, somehow Beaker (Dion) has everyone thinking the politicians are writing exams not running an election campaign. Don't we have anything important to talk about?

Like transparency in government? Fixed election dates? Party hoping? Unelected Senate members? Pick your poison.