PoliticalCitizen Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) Ooopss... http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/econo...dex.htm?cnn=yes Interesting point - most Republicans voted against the motion and most Democrats for it. All markets are down... What's next? Edited September 30, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen Quote You are what you do.
Riverwind Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Interesting point - most Republicans voted against the motion and most Democrats for it.All markets are down... What's next? Get ready for chaos. I think the bankers that created the mess need to step forward and make some sacrifices by returning part or all of their ill gotten bonuses and golden parachutes. If enough did that then the public would probably be less hostile. Of course they are all probably telling themselves that its not their fault.... Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
stevoh Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Get ready for chaos. I think the bankers that created the mess need to step forward and make some sacrifices by returning part or all of their ill gotten bonuses and golden parachutes. If enough did that then the public would probably be less hostile. Of course they are all probably telling themselves that its not their fault.... The first thing that is going to be effected is available credit. Getting a building loan, whether commercial or residential, is now going to be much harder. The bill may be reworked and revoted on again. So, the fallout may be somewhat mitigated if that happens. But really, from what I have read from so called "experts" is that no-one is quite sure WHAT the longer term effects are going to be. But they do agree on one thing, none of it is good. Quote Apply liberally to affected area.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Excellent! For this kind of money, I want to see a bloodbath to the tune of Yankee Doodle Dandy.... Do Or Die. Reigning in the fat cats and their salaries may feel good, but it won't fix a damn thing. Whatever happened to Iraq? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
blueblood Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Excellent! For this kind of money, I want to see a bloodbath to the tune of Yankee Doodle Dandy.... Do Or Die.Reigning in the fat cats and their salaries may feel good, but it won't fix a damn thing. Whatever happened to Iraq? Got an idea what will fix it other than time??? Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
White Doors Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) The first thing that is going to be effected is available credit. Getting a building loan, whether commercial or residential, is now going to be much harder. The bill may be reworked and revoted on again. So, the fallout may be somewhat mitigated if that happens. But really, from what I have read from so called "experts" is that no-one is quite sure WHAT the longer term effects are going to be. But they do agree on one thing, none of it is good. None of it good? ridiculous. This will relieve the expected inflationary pressured that would have resulted from this package leading to a real chance at stagflation. Also, not doing this package will certainly make the pains sharper, but shorter lived. I hope it stays dead. Edited September 29, 2008 by White Doors Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
Riverwind Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) The bill may be reworked and revoted on again. So, the fallout may be somewhat mitigated if that happens. But really, from what I have read from so called "experts" is that no-one is quite sure WHAT the longer term effects are going to be. But they do agree on one thing, none of it is good.Here is a dissenting opinion: http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?entry=9400Not sure if I agree with it but it is worth the read. Banks that made bad mortgage choices get a buttload of money for their bad MBS paper. Banks that charted a more reasonable course—and yes, there are quite a few—get no reward.In a real free market, of course, the banks that made bad decision would have to take the hit. They'd auction them off at whatever price the market would bear, and they'd have to suck up the losses on the difference between face value and sale value, even if that meant driving them out of business. Meanwhile, the more rational banks would be able to pick up the MBS paper at a discount, and make some cash off of the distress sale from the incompetent banks. And, of course, the incompetent banks would probably be driven out of business. Which, after all, is how it is supposed to work. But, the government seems entirely uninterested in letting the market work this out, which brings me to my next point. Edited September 29, 2008 by Riverwind Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
peter_puck Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Politicians playing chicken with the economy for partisan reasons. The Democrats have agreed to this, the Republicans have agreed to it. Its now left up to a bunch of individual representatives who know it is needed, but are going to vote no to look good on reelection. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Got an idea what will fix it other than time??? The market can painfully solve the problem without further tampering by government, which helped to create the problem in the first place. American taxpayers are screaming at Congress to extract a pound of flesh from the banks, shareholders, and bondholders who hoped to benefit from this leverage scheme in the first place. They want somebody's ass! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Politicians playing chicken with the economy for partisan reasons. The Democrats have agreed to this, the Republicans have agreed to it. Its now left up to a bunch of individual representatives who know it is needed, but are going to vote no to look good on reelection. Oh sure....but Speaker Pelosi had to open up her big partisan mouth at the worst possible time. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 What is remarkable is that CNN states that the world is dependent on China for the global economy. They also state that the big bail out is not a buy out but a buy in for the tax payer. What a joke as if the average Joe forking out a few thousand bucks is now going to reap a dividend form what are collapseing banks and corporations. It is like lending - sorry GIVING a rich selfish friend a thousand bucks and he immediately lends you back your own money at a rate of interest that he controls...the whole thing is bizarre. The issue of China is troubling - a lot of this bail out cash will be sent directly to China further empowering them and weakinging America. The American debt on a governmental level is astounding - think of Iraq - billions wasted that were absorbed by black operative privateers and weapons contractors. Add that debt to the scores of others and it is overwhelming to the point that spell of fiatism will no longer enthrawl let alone enchant. Personally what I find distressing on the level of human rights and civil behaviour is the fact that WE are now offically dependent on that huge slave labour camp called China - America was dependent on freedom - and now she has fallen back to being depended on slavery so a few jerks can live the good life at the expense of billions of people - Parasitic is not to strong a term - and nature will have it's way and rid the body of these blood suckers in the east and the west. No good will come from this bail out seeing the money in great part will leave the west and empower the Draconian east! This is a bad and sad state of affairs - greed is a from of illogical behaviour that boaders on mental illness - America has gone nuts - and there is not one statesmen or real leader to be found...it's suffering auto-cannibalizm and is on a dangerous kind of auto-pilot. Mammonism has rules - as do all belief systems - put it this way - even the devil wants nothing to do with America at present - when in the natural scheme of things you drop to lower than evil - that is called stupidy! Quote
guyser Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Oh sure....but Speaker Pelosi had to open up her big partisan mouth at the worst possible time. No kidding. Her rant was pathetic..."we will never bail out another blah blah....." She forgot to say "until next time" Quote
peter_puck Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 The market can painfully solve the problem without further tampering by government, which helped to create the problem in the first place. Hmmm...when was the last time the market "painfully solved" a banking crisis ? 30's something wasn't it ? Quote
PoliticalCitizen Posted September 29, 2008 Author Report Posted September 29, 2008 Hmmm...when was the last time the market "painfully solved" a banking crisis ? 30's something wasn't it ? Several big European banks got bailed by the governments... It looks like the whole world's banking system will not be the same anymore... Quote You are what you do.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Hmmm...when was the last time the market "painfully solved" a banking crisis ? 30's something wasn't it ? Nope.....1987. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 ....put it this way - even the devil wants nothing to do with America at present - when in the natural scheme of things you drop to lower than evil - that is called stupidy! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Financial wealth by degree has it's limits. It is a religious problem. As with all belief systems there is always a priestly class that must decieve the flock...It's like me cutting up some paper and scribbling 100 dollars on it - then like some demi-god king proclaiming that the paper is worth a hundered bucks per sheet. Fiat currencey is always bound to fail eventually. It has been a very crafty affair since they got rid of the gold standard---so now in this belief system we call economy - confidence is being lost..People are starting to understand that they have to believe that the rich are rich and they are poor and submissive - If the poor guy decided that he is rich and the rich are poor - then a bloodless revolution takes place - all shell games come to an end and in the material world (reality) You can not continue for eternity to make something out of nothing just because you say nothing is something - saying it does not make it so - NOW the cowardly rich are in a state of fear because the poor no longer have confidence in them - Americans really don't like their kids sent off to Iraq to die because some rich guy wants some fun and profit - the game is over and now Wall Street and that Cheney character will have to pay up - have fun watching this one - It's and end game called JUSTICE> Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 .... Americans really don't like their kids sent off to Iraq to die because some rich guy wants some fun and profit - the game is over and now Wall Street and that Cheney character will have to pay up - have fun watching this one - It's and end game called JUSTICE> Horse puckey...Cheney isn't going to pay dick! Americans went along for the ride just like Canadians...read 'em and weep.....the only good part is that at least we get to vote on it....LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Horse puckey...Cheney isn't going to pay dick! Americans went along for the ride just like Canadians...read 'em and weep.....the only good part is that at least we get to vote on it....LOL! You are right - I was just toying. It was explained to me that those two guys Bush and Cheney had noting to do with it. I believe that. The system was like a badly managed ant hill and the ants started eating each other - Arrogance and pride blind leadership - so these guys did not really see it coming and if they did were powerless...seeing they have no power other than puppet boy on Haliburtons lap Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 You are right - I was just toying. It was explained to me that those two guys Bush and Cheney had noting to do with it. I believe that. The system was like a badly managed ant hill and the ants started eating each other - Arrogance and pride blind leadership - so these guys did not really see it coming and if they did were powerless...seeing they have no power other than puppet boy on Haliburtons lap Well I am glad to see that somebody has finally gotten a clue....it's the money!!!!! All of the hand wringing and whining about "politics" on this forum doesn't mean jack once the real lubrication for the world stops flowing. Now we will see the real sphincter pucker factor, not trivial concerns about whether the faithful support stem cell research in Botswana. What happened to Iraq (as THE BIG ISSUE)? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 Well I am glad to see that somebody has finally gotten a clue....it's the money!!!!! All of the hand wringing and whining about "politics" on this forum doesn't mean jack once the real lubrication for the world stops flowing. Now we will see the real sphincter pucker factor, not trivial concerns about whether the faithful support stem cell research in Botswana.What happened to Iraq (as THE BIG ISSUE)? You have a way with words. Money is the end all for human existance and happiness - it is a social lubricant as you say. It is supposed to make things run smoother - apparently someone has dumped ground glass into the laxative. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 You have a way with words. Money is the end all for human existance and happiness - it is a social lubricant as you say. It is supposed to make things run smoother - apparently someone has dumped ground glass into the laxative. Oh Yah...the trillions spent in Iraq - now who the hell has all that money - someone supplied them? AND lets not mention the trillions that we sent off to China for Walmart rakes where the handles fall off because they use two drops of glue instead of three.. talk about cheap...so where is the cash - some one has it...and it's not the average citizen....sure would like to see a few creeps doing time...Thank God for Lord Black....."America is in good hands" - I am begining to think they kidnapped our little prince and are confiding in him at this point...such irony - that Black is doing time for what thousands of other exectives got away with.. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 ....Thank God for Lord Black....."America is in good hands" - I am begining to think they kidnapped our little prince and are confiding in him at this point...such irony - that Black is doing time for what thousands of other exectives got away with.. If you say so....Lord Black was just another rube who couldn't play the shell game as well as many others. He thought he could run with the big dogs. Sucker! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 If you say so....Lord Black was just another rube who couldn't play the shell game as well as many others. He thought he could run with the big dogs. Sucker! Remember seeing a documentary about him as a young man - sitting in the back of a limo talking like a kid about to steal your hockey card - what do you expect from a guy that cheated on his Upper Canada College exams and also stole the answers and sold them? The big dogs are realist - not with Napoleonic dellusions - and a whimsical need for hot chick that need a million dollar birthday celebration. The big dogs - actually attempt to hold the whole system together - but as I said the game got to big and complex and became unmanageble - I have no problem with the big dogs - they do not buy Porches...they work hard and are socially responsible - it's the new guys that popped up - I would rather trust someone born with money and trained in good rational principle then someone who desperately WANTS money - seems that the sons of plumbers wanted gold pipes/ Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Posted September 29, 2008 .... I have no problem with the big dogs - they do not buy Porches...they work hard and are socially responsible - it's the new guys that popped up - I would rather trust someone born with money and trained in good rational principle then someone who desperately WANTS money - seems that the sons of plumbers wanted gold pipes/ The cool part is that for those who only learn things through American media, they were told this back in the '70s. Remember Howard Beale? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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