Have a closer look at Harper the man

[Keepitsimple]

Have a read of this article by Angelo Persichilli - it's from The Star - not exactly a Conservative booster:

"I don't want to vote for Dion, but there is something that stops me from supporting Harper," a friend, neither involved nor interested in politics, told me last week.

He was concerned about Harper's "hidden agenda" and "because he appears to me as mean-spirited."

Asked why, he said: "That's what I read about him" and "that's the way I feel when I look at him on TV."

What I'm going to write here shouldn't be interpreted as an endorsement of Stephen Harper's programs or policies. It's exclusively about Harper the man, the human being.

I'm not a close friend of Harper's, but I know him very well, from speaking with him many times in the last five or six years, both for interviews and privately. I've done so with other prime ministers, cabinet ministers and political leaders. Some seemed very intelligent, others just smart, a few were naive. But none of them was mean-spirited. Saying that about Harper isn't just unfair, it's false.

The whole article is interesting: http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/507364

[Canadian Blue]

This should be mandatory reading for all leftists on here.

[DrGreenthumb]

buahahahahah thats funnier than the sweater ads. The left aren't so gullible as you righties, sorry not buyin it.

I guess if you beleive the world is only a couple of thousand years old you might buy this Nice guy Harper bunk too! roflmao

[Canadian Blue]

buahahahahah thats funnier than the sweater ads. The left aren't so gullible as you righties, sorry not buyin it.

Meaning that the left believes that all people on the right are secretly evil Hitlers in waiting, who laugh at people dying, and wish to build a death star to destroy the Middle East.

I guess if you beleive the world is only a couple of thousand years old you might buy this Nice guy Harper bunk too! roflmao

Right, I noticed this little idiotic idea is making the rounds with the far left these days. It basically states that if you tend to be in the mould of classical liberal thought you must also believe that the world is a couple thousand years old. However on the other hand if you believe the government is the answer to every problem, that a bureaucrat is better able to run a business than a businessman, and that a criminal shouldn't take personal responsibility for their actions, then you are a truly enlightened figure who knows the world is approximately 4 billion years old.

[independent]

Have a read of this article by Angelo Persichilli - it's from The Star - not exactly a Conservative booster

The whole article is interesting: http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/507364

You must think his adds are in good taste. If you do I can understand you supporting him. To me it tells a lot about Harper the person and how low he can go. I have voted for the progressive conservatives as much as I have voted for any other party but I WILL NEVER vote for any party who has to muzzle his canditates and put out adds meant to destroy a person rather than consentrating on what good their party can do.

Edited September 28, 2008 by independent

[BC_chick]

Fine, he's not mean-spirited... he's an arrogant phony who happens to believe in smear-campaigns as a primary source of boosting his own approval rating.

Better?

[eyeball]

Meaning that the left believes that all people on the right are secretly evil Hitlers in waiting, who laugh at people dying, and wish to build a death star to destroy the Middle East.

I'm mostly concerned about the vindictiveness of some of the people he represents, like many posters in this forum and others, and people I know where I live. I'm specifically mean the sort of people who think it would be a good idea to throw 14 year olds into the general population of a federal prison - the sort of people Harper's get tough and crack down message resonates with the most. Punishment is a big hit with these folks and tough right-wing talk seems to really get them excited - tasers are great, batons and bullets would be even better. You just don't see this lack of humanity on the so-called left in Canada but this doesn't stop the sneering classes from pointing out the brutality of places like China or Russia, as if these were universal examples of left wing compassion. Don't get me wrong though I'm well aware of our own social engineering disasters like residential schools. I just think the moral engineering disaster of things like the war on drugs that Harper wants to escalate is far worse and I think just about every other issue the Conservatives propose a policy for will be treated with a similar authoritarian morality.

Right, I noticed this little idiotic idea is making the rounds with the far left these days. It basically states that if you tend to be in the mould of classical liberal thought you must also believe that the world is a couple thousand years old.

The religious alarm bell that I hear has a lot to do with the crack-down get-tough mean-spiritedness that's inherent throughout the Conservative approach to crime - its vindictivness is very Old Testament. As for the young Earth notion, if you're willing to believe this you can believe anything. I just don't think its a prudent intelligent idea to elect a PM with the sort of capcaity it takes to suspend that much disbelief. A government that cleaves to anything like the notion of an end time or that God is making us another world is probably not going to be overly concerned with conserving this planet. To real believers the hereafter is actually more relevant than the here and now and that's just plain nuts.

If Harper is even half-way committed to these beliefs he should be way too far out in left field for any rational thinking human.

Edited September 28, 2008 by eyeball

[Canadian Blue]

I'm mostly concerned about the vindictiveness of some of the people he represents, like many posters in this forum and others, and people I know where I live.

As compared to the nutty rabidly anti-American, anti-free market, and ultimately irrational people that seem to make up the left nowadays.

I'm specifically mean the sort of people who think it would be a good idea to throw 14 year olds into the general population of a federal prison - the sort of people Harper's get tough and crack down message resonates with the most.

You mean people who think criminals should learn to take responsibility for their actions. That is as opposed to the Liberal view that those who rape, kill, steal, mug, vandalize, and sell drugs, are simply confused and we should give them a slap on the wrist even after a dozen offences.

Punishment is a big hit with these folks and tough right-wing talk seems to really get them excited - tasers are great, batons and bullets would be even better.

So now you want to take away police officers guns, batons, and tasers. What do you want them armed with, water pistols?

You just don't see this lack of humanity on the so-called left in Canada but this doesn't stop the sneering classes from pointing out the brutality of places like China or Russia, as if these were universal examples of left wing compassion.

Problem is that the left wing view of compassion is taking another persons money by gunpoint, and then using that money to fund special interest groups. Most people think they know how to spend their money better than a bureaucrat, and many also think charities can deliver needed essentials to the poor better than a bureaucracy.

I just think the moral engineering disaster of things like the war on drugs that Harper wants to escalate is far worse and I think just about every other issue the Conservatives propose a policy for will be treated with a similar authoritarian morality.

So far the worst excesses of "moral authoritarianism" have already occurred under left leaning governments. Do you have any idea how much social engineering happens with the Labour government in Great Britian.

The religious alarm bell that I hear has a lot to do with the crack-down get-tough mean-spiritedness that's inherent throughout the Conservative approach to crime - its vindictivness is very Old Testament.

Probably because most people don't like the thought of rapists, murderers, and other assorted violent criminals walking on the streets within a couple of years. It has little to do with the Old Testament, the fact that Liberals such as yourself are willing to sacrifice someone elses security because of your "compassion" isn't a satisfying thought.

As for the young Earth notion, if you're willing to believe this you can believe anything. I just don't think its a prudent intelligent idea to elect a PM with the sort of capcaity it takes to suspend that much disbelief.

You haven't been able to even proof this guy. Maybe if you had a little bit of critical thinking you'd be able to realize that.

A government that cleaves to anything like the notion of an end time or that God is making us another world is probably not going to be overly concerned with conserving this planet. To real believers the hereafter is actually more relevant than the here and now and that's just plain nuts.

What's more nuts is people like yourself who make grand assumptions based on little or no proof, and are hysterical to the extreme.

If Harper is even half-way committed to these beliefs he should be way too far out in left field for any rational thinking human.

I'm not sure, but any person who thinks police should be armed with water pistols, thinks repeat violent criminals should be free to walk the streets, and that young people shouldn't learn to take responsiblity for their actions, isn't exactly rational. Especially someone who doesn't have any proof for the BS that he's saying.

[Canadian Blue]

I have voted for the progressive conservatives as much as I have voted for any other party but I WILL NEVER vote for any party who has to muzzle his canditates and put out adds meant to destroy a person rather than consentrating on what good their party can do.

So you won't be voting for the Liberals, Greens, or New Democrats either. Looks like you're stuck between the Canadian Action Party or the Christian Heritage Party.

[eyeball]

I'm not sure, but any person who thinks police should be armed with water pistols, thinks repeat violent criminals should be free to walk the streets, and that young people shouldn't learn to take responsiblity for their actions, isn't exactly rational. Especially someone who doesn't have any proof for the BS that he's saying.

Of course I expect a rational person such as you will have proof that I said police should be armed with water pistols?

[Canadian Blue]

Punishment is a big hit with these folks and tough right-wing talk seems to really get them excited - tasers are great, batons and bullets would be even better

So what are you saying exactly. Outside of your idiotic beliefs that people to the right of Hugo Chavez are evil fascistic imperialist pigs who love to kill people.

[Argus]

buahahahahah thats funnier than the sweater ads. The left aren't so smart as you righties, sorry not buyin it.

Fixed it for you.

[Argus]

You must think his adds are in good taste. If you do I can understand you supporting him. To me it tells a lot about Harper the person and how low he can go. I have voted for the progressive conservatives as much as I have voted for any other party but I WILL NEVER vote for any party who has to muzzle his canditates and put out adds meant to destroy a person rather than consentrating on what good their party can do.

I expect you'll refrain from voting forever then, right? Oh, it's only when conservative parties put out attack ads or muzzle candidates. NOOOW I get it.

[Argus]

Fine, he's not mean-spirited... he's an arrogant phony who happens to believe in smear-campaigns as a primary source of boosting his own approval rating.

Better?

It's a good thing the Liberals and NDP don't do that or you'd never vote for them. Right?

[Argus]

I'm mostly concerned about the vindictiveness of some of the people he represents, like

Vindictiveness is a dangerous thing in a PM. Why, he might abuse government powers, and try to get opponents arrested and thrown into jail..... like Jean Chretien did to Francois Beaudoin, but of course, he was a Liberal so that was okay with you.

But I agree it would certainly be worrying if Harper ever showed the kind of mean spirited vindictiveness Chretien was _famous_ for.

[independent]

Vindictiveness is a dangerous thing in a PM. Why, he might abuse government powers, and try to get opponents arrested and thrown into jail..... like Jean Chretien did to Francois Beaudoin, but of course, he was a Liberal so that was okay with you.

But I agree it would certainly be worrying if Harper ever showed the kind of mean spirited vindictiveness Chretien was _famous_ for.

Never was a fan of Chretien especially in his last years in politics . You think Harpers attack adds are okay and your entitled but not everyone thinks that politics should stoop too that level. Everyone has their own level of tolerance.

[jdobbin]

Have a read of this article by Angelo Persichilli - it's from The Star - not exactly a Conservative booster:

I'm more concerned with Harper's continued stranglehold on information and access to it and his tendency to want to control every aspect of his government.

[betsy]

Fine, he's not mean-spirited... he's an arrogant phony who happens to believe in smear-campaigns as a primary source of boosting his own approval rating.

Better?

What's wrong about dishing out the same medicine?

Years back, the Liberals had a real field day slugging Harper and painting him into some monster. Did I hear him whine?

Did anyone say the Liberals are mean-spirited character assasinators? Talk about double-standard.

Instead of moaning and whining to the press, "he accuse me to cheer the recession...etc..," (which is nothing compared to the way they demonized Harper)....well, learn to take it like a man!

As the saying go, if you can't take the heat, then scram out of the kitchen.

Edited September 29, 2008 by betsy

[independent]

What's wrong about dishing out the same medicine?

Years back, the Liberals had a real field day slugging Harper and painting him into some monster. Did I hear him whine?

Did anyone say the Liberals are mean-spirited character assasinators? Talk about double-standard.

Instead of moaning and whining to the press, "he accuse me to cheer the recession...etc..," (which is nothing compared to the way they demonized Harper)....well, learn to take it like a man!

As the saying go, if you can't take the heat, then scram out of the kitchen.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008&no_ads=

Dion says the Liberals will protect womens rights. The Liberals are running 112 women candidates. He is out of the kitchen fighting for your rights.

[betsy]

Never was a fan of Chretien especially in his last years in politics . You think Harpers attack adds are okay and your entitled but not everyone thinks that politics should stoop too that level. Everyone has their own level of tolerance.

Politics had already been taken down to that low level long ago.

What do you think about the way the Liberals demonized Harper since way back? Who started dishing out personal attacks? Actually the demonization of Harper was even more vicious compared to what we see from the Conservative ads. Besides, personal attacks are not limited to tv ads alone you know.

[eyeball]

So what are you saying exactly.

I'm saying that I've heard and seen many conservatives that support the Conservatives declare great enthusiasm for throwing kids into adult prisons, shooting dealers in the back of the head, shipping junkies off to labour camps etc etc. Between this support base of Harpers, his proposed policies for mandatory sentencing and my MP's campaign brochures (James Lummy has declared that junkies have no rights) I really get the sense that many Conservatives and conservatives want a vengence system as opposed to a justice system. That's just downright un-Canadian.

[eyeball]

Vindictiveness is a dangerous thing in a PM. Why, he might abuse government powers, and try to get opponents arrested and thrown into jail..... like Jean Chretien did to Francois Beaudoin, but of course, he was a Liberal so that was okay with you.

But I agree it would certainly be worrying if Harper ever showed the kind of mean spirited vindictiveness Chretien was _famous_ for.

That's just the thing you see, as time goes by PM's and governments are generally getting more authoritarian and prone to pushing the envelope on what's abusive and what isn't.

Why would Chretien be okay with me? I can't stand the Liberal Party, I wish it just implode and go away.

As far as Chretien's liberal vindictiveness I seem to recall lots of conservatives getting a pretty good laugh when Chretien's buddy Sgt Pepper went to work. What was that over again? Oh yeah, protecting a bunch of sneaky multi-national billionaires from a few protestors with the audacity to ask for a little representation and accountability. Real troublemakers alright.

[blueblood]

I'm saying that I've heard and seen many conservatives that support the Conservatives declare great enthusiasm for throwing kids into adult prisons, shooting dealers in the back of the head, shipping junkies off to labour camps etc etc. Between this support base of Harpers, his proposed policies for mandatory sentencing and my MP's campaign brochures (James Lummy has declared that junkies have no rights) I really get the sense that many Conservatives and conservatives want a vengence system as opposed to a justice system. That's just downright un-Canadian.

Nope it's un-eyeball, one vote to a customer.

[Canadian Blue]

I'm saying that I've heard and seen many conservatives that support the Conservatives declare great enthusiasm for throwing kids into adult prisons

No, no, no, we're just gung ho to put kids who shoot our kids in prison. I'm not sure what your solution is, I'm guessing it's give them a wallypop and then force the victims of the dead children to pay the kid for reperations as it's societies fault.

Dion says the Liberals will protect womens rights. The Liberals are running 112 women candidates. He is out of the kitchen fighting for your rights.

Theirs a difference between entitlements and rights. I wish people would understand that. From most polls I've seen the CPC is actually leading among women. Maybe they're getting tired of Stephane Dion making them to be victims all the time who are to weak to make it on their own.

shooting dealers in the back of the head, shipping junkies off to labour camps etc etc.

I hear that often from the general population, they even make movies about it, ever hear of the "Boondock Saints." It doesn't mean it's going to become official government policy, only the truly naive believe that.

That's just downright un-Canadian.

Yes, and I'm sure that anyone who disagrees with your bleeding heart sympathy with drug dealers and sex offenders is "un-Canadian."