Harper does it AGAIN

[kengs333]

If you would take your own advice, troll, you would see of the those who went overseas very few saw any action at all. How much training do you need to drive a truck in England? In this case most had over two years...

Now be a good troll and run off and find something, even a toaster site that has even an iota of information that backs up your uniformed opinions.

Well, if they had two years of train, as you claim, then it's curious that they would have had difficulty in reloading sten guns...

Service and training are two totally different things. Parading, marching, lobbing rocks and firing rifles a few times a year, performing guard duty in Canada, etc. doesn't make one a seasoned, competent combat soldier.

Spare me the "troll" nonsense... you're starting to sound like jenny...

Edited September 25, 2008 by kengs333

[kengs333]

If you want an actual factual example of your premise then look to the German Military at the close of the war. They were in such desperate straights that they pressed old men and kids into service with no training at all to speak of. That would have illustrated your point far more effectively.

Actually, many of the old men would have served during the First World War.

Units such as the 12th Waffen SS division, which was comprised of 15 to 17 year olds, was one of the hardest fighting units that served in Western Europe. Any Canadian who fought against them will attest to that, I believe.

Edited September 25, 2008 by kengs333

[kengs333]

Actually it appears that you are the one who needs the help. Did I not just tell you that I've read many books whoe's subject is Military history? Or did you miss that part?

Being retired Military I tend to have an interest in this sort of thing. Some of the conscripts may have had less than desirable levels of training but that does not negate the fact that Canada was and still is to this day considered to be a Nation with very high Military training standards.

Well, then, I suggest that you start rereading.

[Army Guy]

Good boy.

I can see why dancer brush you aside, maybe it has something to do with your attitude.

Now discuss how the recruiting process has changed from just a few years ago, and how many of these "enrollees" are weeded out and why.

Whatever the case, the Canadian military is having difficulty maintaining a paltry 2,500 man force in Afghanistan, and will all the way to 2011 (or beyond).

It's not the fact that the forces is having problems with recruitment, atleast not any more than any other dept, or large organization....but rather keeping people in ....thats the problem, things like a bulk of the forces is nearing the retirment age, the constant rotation in and out of missions, exhaustion of troops , hardships placed on family, plus many other problems.....You can't gut an organization , and expect to throw a few dollars at it expecting it to jump up back into the game....you forget that for 12 long years DND was gutted,and gutted hard....

That paltry 2,500 man force, makes up more than 1/3 of our fighting capibilty, does those numbers concern you....does it concern you that the other 2/3 of our fighting force does not have all of it's equipment it needs to deploy, in fact most only have 50 % or less of the vehs and equipment it needs.....and while things are slowly getting better under the cons it is a slow process....don't let a the purchase of a few helo's, some cargo aircraft and tanks fool you...we still got a long way to go

And the liberals want to gut us once again.....what is left to gut...where do canadians draw the line...under the liberals the only place you'll be able to see military equipment is in the museum....but hey atleast we will be able to watch documantaries about our military on CBC,

[AngusThermopyle]

Units such as the 16th Waffen SS division, which was comprised of 15 to 17 year olds,

Interesting, not correct but an interesting premise.

Here, learn a little about the formation and history of 16th Waffen.

A Brief History

[kengs333]

I can see why dancer brush you aside, maybe it has something to do with your attitude.

Of course you fail to realize the year or so of trying to have reasoned discussions with him, which invariably when he has been out-debated he turns into mudslinging matches.

[Argus]

No, it has nothing to do with funding, simply the fact that nobody with any amount of intelligence would want to enter the military.

Why is that? The pay rate is darned good, with excellent security and benefits. Only a small fraction of them will ever wind up in any kind of danger as in Afghanistan, and that's primarily made up of those who are adventuresome souls and want to go into the infantry. Why do you believe the military is such a terrible career vs, say, working on a university campus for your entire life or working in a cubicle with your eyes glued to a computer monitor writing code, or in a law office researching cases and precedents for 15 hours a day?

[kengs333]

Why is that? The pay rate is darned good, with excellent security and benefits. Only a small fraction of them will ever wind up in any kind of danger as in Afghanistan, and that's primarily made up of those who are adventuresome souls and want to go into the infantry. Why do you believe the military is such a terrible career vs, say, working on a university campus for your entire life or working in a cubicle with your eyes glued to a computer monitor writing code, or in a law office researching cases and precedents for 15 hours a day?

Working in a law office is preferrable for many reasons, not just for the remuneration.

[kengs333]

Interesting, not correct but an interesting premise.

Here, learn a little about the formation and history of 16th Waffen.

A Brief History

Actually I believe this would be better than a brief overview:

http://www.amazon.com/12th-SS-Division-Sta...8286&sr=8-8

Also Rupert Butler's "SS Hitler Jugend".

[AngusThermopyle]

Working in a law office is preferrable for many reasons, not just for the remuneration.

In your opinion.

You know what they say about opinions don't you?

[Argus]

Working in a law office is preferrable for many reasons, not just for the remuneration.

Really? What reasons? No question lawyers make more money, but is that the be all and end all, to you, of what indicates intelligence? Because by that standard no intelligent person would work anywhere else.

Btw, where do you work and how much do you make a year?

[kengs333]

In your opinion.

You know what they say about opinions don't you?

No, I think that objectively speaking, working for a law firm would be more adventageous.

[AngusThermopyle]

No, I think that objectively speaking, working for a law firm would be more adventageous

Sure it would be, In your opinion. Some of us however do not wish to be cooped up in some room day after day. Never pushing yourself, never really living. If thats what you see as being more advantageous then more power to you. For myself I happen to see living life to its fullest as being far more advantageous.

Living life to its fullest doesn't mean being an office drone all my life, nature gave me certain skills and a propensity to forge ahead, no matter the cost or discomfort. To ignore or deny that would be to ignore an intrinsic part of myself.

So for you being an office drone may be the pinnacle of achievment, however it is not necessarily true of all. For myself I much prefer the chalenges presented by change and hardship. After all we only truly grow and develope as a result of of change and hardship.

[TCCK]

TINFOIL BEANIE squad quickly attack all Conservative supporters and shovel the crap you Liberals love to call "truth" (may it be ever so slanted and not true at all.)

[kengs333]

Sure it would be, In your opinion. Some of us however do not wish to be cooped up in some room day after day. Never pushing yourself, never really living. If thats what you see as being more advantageous then more power to you. For myself I happen to see living life to its fullest as being far more advantageous.

Living life to its fullest doesn't mean being an office drone all my life, nature gave me certain skills and a propensity to forge ahead, no matter the cost or discomfort. To ignore or deny that would be to ignore an intrinsic part of myself.

So for you being an office drone may be the pinnacle of achievment, however it is not necessarily true of all. For myself I much prefer the chalenges presented by change and hardship. After all we only truly grow and develope as a result of of change and hardship.

Do you have any idea what it takes to be a lawyer? Trust me, once you make it as a lawyer, you'll be living all right--and certainly not sitting in dirt hole getting shot at in the process.

As for the rest of your post, it's interesting the lengths that people go to in order to justify their inability to develop and intellect and apply themselves to finding occupations that require the application of said intellect.

[kengs333]

Really? What reasons? No question lawyers make more money, but is that the be all and end all, to you, of what indicates intelligence? Because by that standard no intelligent person would work anywhere else.

Btw, where do you work and how much do you make a year?

i dunno

Edited September 26, 2008 by kengs333

[AngusThermopyle]

As for the rest of your post, it's interesting the lengths that people go to in order to justify their inability to develop and intellect and apply themselves to finding occupations that require the application of said intellect.

You certainly are proving your superior intellect by resorting to simple insults and unfounded presumptions.

Basically it appears that you judge any who do not share your immediate views as being inferior. This in and of itself shows me the true nature of your judgements and exposes your somewhat limited worldview for all to see.

From the responses you've posted it is quite obvious that you measure satisfaction in life by the material gains you make. Thats fine, we all do to some degree or another. Thats not all there is to life though. You enjoy attempting to ridicule me because I served, thats fine too. You haven't taken the same path as me and thats why I understand you have no idea of what life is actually about. Thats fine too, for you.

You make huge assumptions, secure in your self given certainty that you are right, despite all evidence to the contrary, and when shown you are wrong you retreat into insults and falsifications. You assume that you know both the material and intellectual credentials of all who post here, (reminds me of someone else actually) and you exagerate or just plain falsify certain "facts" to make your point.

Given all of the above why do you think even for a moment that you could ever possibly insult me?

i dunno

Yet another stunning example of your superior intellect at work.

Maybe that's what passes for humour in your intellectually/materially superior world?

Edited September 26, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Army Guy]

In other words, you can't and won't admit it. The CF changed the manner in which they acquire recuits by not requiring them to be physically fit; now the CF helps these unfit recuits get into shape--if they can--but no mention is made of how many are later discarded. It's just a way of fudging the numbers to make things look less bleak than they really are.

Actually DND was forced to make those changes due to Canadian law, and human rights commision, which thought previous recruiting practices were unfair to all Canadians. So yes the old standards have been deluted, and the actual recruiting standards where changed....Now everyone is excepted and must prove on thier own merit that they are not suitable for military duty while in recruiting school....

what that means is someone that weighs in at 3 to 400 lbs can and will be accepted into the military, and once they have proven they can not make the deluted minimum standards they are sidelined....and put in a special group, the recruits call it fat camp....here PT is the focus, all other training is ceased they spend there days getting into shape, and must show progress at different levels of thier stay in fat camp....if not , they are released...if after a certain amount of time and they still can not meet minimum standards they are released....once they pass the minimum standards they continue with thier regular military training.

To those that think that fat camp would be a great way of lossing a few pounds at tax payers expense, give it a try, there are not lying when they said there is no life like it...it can be very tough on those that are not fit...

Achieving Minimum standard is not all that tough, trust me...most people can do it right off the street....So for you ex military guys out there don't get to discouraged just yet....All this process does is slow down the weeding out of the weak....After recruit school is finished for the combat arms battle school begins....there are no, i repeat no changes to the standards here...you can't keep up to the tougher standards you released, or reassigned....it is one safety net still in place, the next safety net is the actual Combat arms units, where runing a 10 km cross country run is still norm, can't keep up yes they will cut you some slack, and allow you time to get into shape, but not much....

For those that do not go to combat arms school ,rather trades training they're next safety net is not until they get to there 1 st line units, it is here that they will run the guts out of you, and if your not prepared then life is going to be tough, your job and performance ratings will be lower than your peers etc etc and you will not progress as fast as they will...

Yes they have changed the way we recruit, and whom is acepted... but in the end all they have done is waste your tax dollars, i mean what is more important here having a motivated fit person in the rank and file of our nations military, or telling a person that wieghs in at 400 lbs sorry your not what we are looking for....

One more note, when they talk about recruiting numbers , those numbers are the ones that have sucessfull passed recruit training. not those that were inducted.

[Army Guy]

If you want an actual factual example of your premise then look to the German Military at the close of the war. They were in such desperate straights that they pressed old men and kids into service with no training at all to speak of. That would have illustrated your point far more effectively.

Actually, many of the old men would have served during the First World War.

Units such as the 12th Waffen SS division, which was comprised of 15 to 17 year olds, was one of the hardest fighting units that served in Western Europe. Any Canadian who fought against them will attest to that, I believe

Near the end of the war "as it was mentioned, most of those that had fought in War I that were still reasonably fit or could recall thier training had already been called up, it was those old men that were left over that as a stop gap measure where thrown into combat....

As for the kids, the 12 SS is not a good example , these kids started at a very early age, and had been brain washed with the many NAZI programs meant for thier youth, those kids were hand selected for thier beliefs, thier fitness, and attitudes....and by the time they were of age they were men...not kids they were suppose to be....That and the fact they where one of hilters fire brigades meant they saw alot of combat, and you either learned to be a warrior or perished...

[Argus]

i dunno

That may be the most honest post you've made yet.

"I dunno"

You could probably do us all a favour and append that to every post you make on all subjects, because it really does a good job of underlining how much weight we should give to your arguments.

"Kengs333, do tell us what you know about Canada's military."

Kengs 333 "I dunno."

Excellent. Much less wastage of time this way.

[Argus]

Do you have any idea what it takes to be a lawyer?

A decent memory and a lot of time in libraries reading through old precedents.

I'm gathering you actually don't know much about lawyers or law school.

Which isn't surprising given you clearly don't know much about the Canadian military either.

[stignasty]

TINFOIL BEANIE squad quickly attack all Conservative supporters and shovel the crap you Liberals love to call "truth" (may it be ever so slanted and not true at all.)

This kind of poster is /just/ what this board needs. Please, post more and spread your enlightenment...

[White Doors]

In other words, you can't and won't admit it. The CF changed the manner in which they acquire recuits by not requiring them to be physically fit; now the CF helps these unfit recuits get into shape--if they can--but no mention is made of how many are later discarded. It's just a way of fudging the numbers to make things look less bleak than they really are.

Wow, you have been very obviously proven to be wrong and on and on you march.

Do you realize how silly you are making yourself look?

And by all accounts, you don't need any help looking silly.

[guyser]

Basically it appears that you judge any who do not share your immediate views as being inferior.

Kengs333 is uber religious. None of his "judgements" should surprise anyone. Ignore the troll.

[kengs333]

A decent memory and a lot of time in libraries reading through old precedents.

I'm gathering you actually don't know much about lawyers or law school.

Which isn't surprising given you clearly don't know much about the Canadian military either.

There's a reason why you are still flipping burgers and read comic books, I suppose; if that's what you think lawyers do ("a lot of time in libraries"????)...