American-style school shooting in Finland

[kengs333]

Speaking of violent movies: Have you seen French movie "Irreversible"? I can't recommend it to anyone as it has scarred my soul irreversibly...

Besides, it is better to appease the Neanderthal in you via violent movies and music then beat the living shit out of someone... which is a common thing in many countries...

People are not inherently violent; this is something that is learned. Movies that promote violence are key influences in perpetuating violence in our society.

[kengs333]

None of your gross generalizations "originate" solely from the USA:

Not motion pictures;

Not firearms;

Not political action groups;

Not gangs;

and certainly Not violence.

Hell...John Garand was a Canadian!

I never said any of these things "solely" originate from the USA. What I said was that movies produced in the United States, American gun culture, American gang violence, the NRA, originate in the USA and are a part of American culture that influence culture in the west in general. You should learn how comprehend what you read properly, and to not attribute to the write your miscomprehensions.

[moderateamericain]

I disagree. I think that the problem stems from a decline in European influence in this region allowing for nationalist, ethnic, and Communist influences to take over.

Okay then, So why then since the Influence of Europe left the region did they explode? How bout because the Europeans bent them over the table and gave it to em ungentlemenly for years.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE:Perhaps you should inform him that it's America's fault.

He's probably already figured that out.

Yes, I'm sure that's why they're looking at changing Finland's gun laws; because they've figured out that it's all America's fault.

You really need to get out of the box.

[GostHacked]

So does that mean that stabbings on buses comes from "Canadian" culture?

I recall a billboard on my way to work that is no longer there. It was for Greyhound. "There is a reason you have never heard of 'Bus Rage'" .. untill now.

M Dancer

Hell, prewar Germany was incredibly violent. The cities were war zones as heavily armed militias fought each other. Iraonically it was Hitler who pledged tobring order......overlooking the fact that his armed gangs constituted half the problem.

Indeed it was part of the problem, and part of the solution. Create some turmoil in the country in order to scare the people to support your bold new vision.

And, I will even call bull on the , USA did it here. Finland has been around much much longer than the US. By proximity, Finland would be more influenced by Russia shootemup movies. Finland got independance from Russia in 1917 but had been autonomous since 1806. There are plenty of foriegn films that are quite violent.

Keng

Those would have been isolated instances. The concept of taking a gun into a school and shooting people is something that individually deranged people are going to hit upon. But Columbine was somehow different in the manner in which the media and American society in general reacted to it.

Four dead in Ohio. The media reacted to that like a firestorm. Kent State where war protesters were shot. So the media reaction is basicly the same in proportion to the types of media available then and now. But Columbine was different in the how it happened. It was students doing the shooting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

Movies produced by Hollywood and gang violence in American cities don't originate in the USA?!?!? huh.gif

Gang violence itself has been around long before the US was even a country. If anything the Italians perfected gang violence (mafia). The Russians are pretty good at it too. China, ect ect. It is just that since the US is a melting pot so to speak, you get to see all the gangs from around the world. That's the American way.

American Woman has a good point with the gun/per capita ratio. Since by per capita Finland has the most guns, but because of how big the population of the US is, you will by the numbers, see more violence in the US. And well, the ratio of these kinds of shootings (if you are talking grade, high school shootings) it will still be lower in Finland. This shooting was at an adult school. So, not kids shooting each other up here. Adults. but they were at school.

Political Citizen

Speaking of violent movies: Have you seen French movie "Irreversible"? I can't recommend it to anyone as it has scarred my soul irreversibly...

That is one rape scene I wish I could unsee. That movie was designed in such a way that it really makes you feel uncomfortale with a lot of shit. Scarred indeed. Me and 5 pals watched that movie one night together. We all agreed it was an incredible movie.

Keng

People are not inherently violent; this is something that is learned. Movies that promote violence are key influences in perpetuating violence in our society.

I say it is instinct we are violent. We learn and are raised as such and in such a way that we are tempered to not be violent. Conditioned if you will. There is also something called morality which prevents almost everyone from pulling the trigger. Violent movies, and violent pc games are a simple release of that repressed instinct. We take it in visually and it does releave some stress of your daily life.

I think I am gonna fire up TeamFortress2. Cart will NOT push self.

[kengs333]

Okay then, So why then since the Influence of Europe left the region did they explode? How bout because the Europeans bent them over the table and gave it to em ungentlemenly for years.

Is that how you define educating and civilizing people? I'll admit that Europeans didn't treat the natives all that well at times, but at least they freed some of these people from living lives as illiterate headhunters.

I already stated why it exploded; once you take away the stability provided by European governance and replace it with nationalism, ethnic differences, and communism, the doo-doo hits the fan [i should add Islam to this, too]. Also, developing a stable form of government is something that takes time, which was the case with Europe. Perhaps Europeans were a little delusional in thinking that they could pass on these hard learned lessons to the people of Africa.

[kengs333]

Yes, I'm sure that's why they're looking at changing Finland's gun laws; because they've figured out that it's all America's fault.

You really need to get out of the box.

They're just going through the motions. There's no need for them to change their gun laws because the problem with guns is the mindset of the people who use them. Finland doesn't have the same American-style obsession/deranged devotion to guns.

[kengs333]

I say it is instinct we are violent. We learn and are raised as such and in such a way that we are tempered to not be violent. Conditioned if you will. There is also something called morality which prevents almost everyone from pulling the trigger. Violent movies, and violent pc games are a simple release of that repressed instinct. We take it in visually and it does releave some stress of your daily life.

I think I am gonna fire up TeamFortress2. Cart will NOT push self.

*yawn* whatever. Of course, pick the exact opposite and just make up an argument. Too bad the reality of the matter is that people are not born violent.

[bush_cheney2004]

Is that how you define educating and civilizing people? I'll admit that Europeans didn't treat the natives all that well at times, but at least they freed some of these people from living lives as illiterate headhunters.

Well, that certainly explains a lot about how you think (or don't think) in general. Those damn savages should be grateful!

I already stated why it exploded; once you take away the stability provided by European governance and replace it with nationalism, ethnic differences, and communism, the doo-doo hits the fan [i should add Islam to this, too]. Also, developing a stable form of government is something that takes time, which was the case with Europe. Perhaps Europeans were a little delusional in thinking that they could pass on these hard learned lessons to the people of Africa.

Sure...only Europe had "stability".....LOL! We really loved the "stability" of two world wars.

[kengs333]

Sure...only Europe had "stability".....LOL! We really loved the "stability" of two world wars.

Governance and war are two different things. Even during the wars, the respective governments were able to maintain social stability under very difficult conditions.

[PoliticalCitizen]

People are not inherently violent; this is something that is learned. Movies that promote violence are key influences in perpetuating violence in our society.

Your argument against genetic predisposition towards violence sounds a little bit childish. I could only wish there were more people thinking like you...

But the thruth is that the inherently violent have a much better chance of survival, and we all have at least a bit of that in our blood... the meek and the weak were slaughtered throughout the history...

Edited September 26, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[bush_cheney2004]

Governance and war are two different things. Even during the wars, the respective governments were able to maintain social stability under very difficult conditions.

Oh sure...it was just peachy keen for "social stability"...all the way to the concentration camps.

[kengs333]

Your argument against genetic predisposition towards violence sounds a little bit childish. I could only wish there were more people thinking like you...

But the thruth is that the inherently violent have a much better chance of survival, and we all have at least a bit of that in our blood... the meek and the weak were slaughtered throughout the history...

*sigh* "a little bit childish," am I? Ho-hum, whatever...

Nice little social darwinistic rant... I would agree with you if humans had brains the size of walnuts, but that its not the case... humans are not born violent because as infants we are helpless, incapable of walking or fending for ourselves, thus are subject to a great deal of nurture before we are able to function on our own.

[moderateamericain]

Is that how you define educating and civilizing people? I'll admit that Europeans didn't treat the natives all that well at times, but at least they freed some of these people from living lives as illiterate headhunters.

I already stated why it exploded; once you take away the stability provided by European governance and replace it with nationalism, ethnic differences, and communism, the doo-doo hits the fan [i should add Islam to this, too]. Also, developing a stable form of government is something that takes time, which was the case with Europe. Perhaps Europeans were a little delusional in thinking that they could pass on these hard learned lessons to the people of Africa.

And this is why I firmly believe Liberal Ideology is wrong and Racist.

[GostHacked]

A very tragic situation, and another example of how American "culture" is having a negative effect on the rest of the world:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/09/23/f...h-shooting.html

And then

I never said any of these things "solely" originate from the USA. What I said was that movies produced in the United States, American gun culture, American gang violence, the NRA, originate in the USA and are a part of American culture that influence culture in the west in general. You should learn how comprehend what you read properly, and to not attribute to the write your miscomprehensions.

But then .. Finland is not in the West.

They're just going through the motions. There's no need for them to change their gun laws because the problem with guns is the mindset of the people who use them. Finland doesn't have the same American-style obsession/deranged devotion to guns.

Flip floppin are ya?? You even countered your own argument .... awesome. Expect to get ripped on it in the future as well.

[PoliticalCitizen]

*sigh* "a little bit childish," am I? Ho-hum, whatever...

Not you - your argument.

Nice little social darwinistic rant... I would agree with you if humans had brains the size of walnuts, but that its not the case...

It is not a rant - I'm not complaining. It's a fact. Humans are violent by nature. Humans are violent towards nature and themselves. They cut trees, slaughter animals, kill each other in wars, kill themselves...

Because their brains are bigger than walnuts they have devised so many ways to torture an kill...

... humans are not born violent because as infants we are helpless, incapable of walking or fending for ourselves, thus are subject to a great deal of nurture before we are able to function on our own.

Humans are born with their genetic package that carries at least some of the violence, brutality and rage perpetrated by thousands of generations before them. In a peaceful environment these traits are latent, but when the hell breaks loose...

I believe both the repression of subconscious need for violence and the lack of spiritual education that would teach you how to deal with it are causes for incidents like the one in Finland (as well as many other crimes).

Edited September 26, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[moderateamericain]

Theres a definete corelation between Violent sports or Military service and aggressive behavior. More Testosterone, more readiness to inflict pain. I know they few times I have been in fist fights I never felt more pumped up and excited then when I thudded my fist straight into someones face. Fighting is a great feeling.

[guyser]

Fighting is a great feeling.

When you win.

[bush_cheney2004]

Theres a definete corelation between Violent sports or Military service and aggressive behavior. More Testosterone, more readiness to inflict pain. I know they few times I have been in fist fights I never felt more pumped up and excited then when I thudded my fist straight into someones face. Fighting is a great feeling.

Yep....you will never feel more alive than when you are fighting certain death. Even sweat smells better!

[moderateamericain]

When you win.

No, even when you lose.