Stephen Harper Is Just Like George Bush

DrGreenthumb · September 15, 2008

Weren't you going to explain how we stop your legal cocoa plants from spawning illegal cocaine and crack - without any laws against that?

Without a war on drugs those things would be regulated not criminalized, so they would not in fact be illegal. The supply would be much safer, nobody would get robbed or killed over drug debts, and it would be a lot easier for the government to keep track of the addicts. If I decide that I want to snort some coke its none of your or Harper's damn business. I don't happen to want to snort any coke however because I have seen first hand what it can do to people who become addicted. I tried it a couple of times(surprise surprise, its legal status never affected my decision to try it one iota), but I didn't like how it made me feel. A couple cups of coffee is enough of a speed buzz for me thanks. The fact is that cocaine is almost never used in areas where coca plants grow, the people simply chew the leaves and get a bit of a boost not unlike we get from drinking coffee. The cocaine is almost ALL shipped to places where it is the most illegal, and therefore extremely valuable. Heroin and cocaine were created to allow smugglers to ship more drug by concentrating it so it would take up less room and be easier to conceal.

Anyone who argues for continuing a war on drugs just sounds like a moron.

blueblood · September 15, 2008

Without a war on drugs those things would be regulated not criminalized, so they would not in fact be illegal. The supply would be much safer, nobody would get robbed or killed over drug debts, and it would be a lot easier for the government to keep track of the addicts. If I decide that I want to snort some coke its none of your or Harper's damn business. I don't happen to want to snort any coke however because I have seen first hand what it can do to people who become addicted. I tried it a couple of times(surprise surprise, its legal status never affected my decision to try it one iota), but I didn't like how it made me feel. A couple cups of coffee is enough of a speed buzz for me thanks. The fact is that cocaine is almost never used in areas where coca plants grow, the people simply chew the leaves and get a bit of a boost not unlike we get from drinking coffee. The cocaine is almost ALL shipped to places where it is the most illegal, and therefore extremely valuable. Heroin and cocaine were created to allow smugglers to ship more drug by concentrating it so it would take up less room and be easier to conceal.
Anyone who argues for continuing a war on drugs just sounds like a moron.

by that logic we don't need a police force, the war on crime is just too costly.

What you are proposing is anarchy, and conditions like Somalia. Everybody's high there and look at what they've amounted too.

People get robbed and killed everyday, what its over doesn't matter.

DrGreenthumb · September 16, 2008

by that logic we don't need a police force, the war on crime is just too costly.
What you are proposing is anarchy, and conditions like Somalia. Everybody's high there and look at what they've amounted too.

People get robbed and killed everyday, what its over doesn't matter.

There you go, sounding dumb again! It is not Anarchy for people to make their own choices about what they choose to put in their own bodies. I'm all for the police to arrest people for robbing and killing, and keeping them in jail till even the hair on their nuts is grey. I am even in favour of the death penalty for murderous scum like bernardo, homolka, and Picton. Robbing and killing, and assault, rape etc are all crimes with an identifiable victim. Someone will complain to the police about people like that, there is no need for them to go "undercover" and spy on the citizens to find these criminals. When police go back to solving REAL crimes, and stop trying to be nannies and health enforcement officers they will deserve some respect until then they deserve to be looked at like the gestapo they act like. Caging a human being over their association with ANY plant is just plain wrong.

The fact that the Conservatives want to do just that DOES make them fascists. It is conservative policy to throw a young Canadian into a cage for 6 months for simple planting one cannabis seed. Every thinking person should be able to realize how absolutely stupid this policy is. Thank the conservatives for putting the police in a situation where they will be even LESS respected than they are now. Blame stephen Harper the next time a cop is shot in the line of duty by a terrified kid who is fighting to stay out of Harper's cage.

Edited September 16, 2008 by DrGreenthumb

blueblood · September 16, 2008

There you go, sounding dumb again! It is not Anarchy for people to make their own choices about what they choose to put in their own bodies. I'm all for the police to arrest people for robbing and killing, and keeping them in jail till even the hair on their nuts is grey. I am even in favour of the death penalty for murderous scum like bernardo, homolka, and Picton. Robbing and killing, and assault, rape etc are all crimes with an identifiable victim. Someone will complain to the police about people like that, there is no need for them to go "undercover" and spy on the citizens to find these criminals. When police go back to solving REAL crimes, and stop trying to be nannies and health enforcement officers they will deserve some respect until then they deserve to be looked at like the gestapo they act like. Caging a human being over their association with ANY plant is just plain wrong.
The fact that the Conservatives want to do just that DOES make them fascists. It is conservative policy to throw a young Canadian into a cage for 6 months for simple planting one cannabis seed. Every thinking person should be able to realize how absolutely stupid this policy is. Thank the conservatives for putting the police in a situation where they will be even LESS respected than they are now. Blame stephen Harper the next time a cop is shot in the line of duty by a terrified kid who is fighting to stay out of Harper's cage.

Then you go and post that...

nobody is forcing you to stay. 40 percent of Canadians are supporting a party with a hardline stance towards drugs.

You are also talking to someone who wouldn't mind alcohol prohibition. A lot of the real crimes stem from the effects of mind altering substances, it's too bad the gov't caved on alcohol, and we're seeing the problems arising from that.

It is the fact that we have rules is what makes us a civilized and prosperous society. We in Canada draw the line with drug use. We live in a democratic society that has chosen to keep drugs illegal, if you don't like it you can run for office, vote for the party that is similar to your views, or leave; hardly the makings of a fascist society. It's too bad that it's one vote to a customer, and that a large number of Canadians don't care about legalizing drug use and don't want to pay for the effects of legalized drug use.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

Well its better than living with a Corrupt Liberal Goverment that screws the military...bashes the U.S. and supports terrorists operatng freely within our country...liberals would never want to offend islamic extremists they have rights too under the Liberal party and our welcomed in our country..how sick is that? as far as bashing America goes you would be speaking German or Russian if it weren t for our American friends...Liberal idiots should try to remember this, the only thing protecting Canada from being run over from the Chinese or Russians IS the Americans!!!......Harper is on the right path and will make this country strong with a Majority Goverment protecting the Artic ,arming our military to the teeth with new weapons and making Canada a force to be reckoned with not the laughing stock on the world stage that it was under the Liberals (when chretien went to New York after 9/11 the Americans didn t even know who he was..lol), there is no room for a weak. appeasing the enemy Liberal Goverment in a time of terrorism and war!!!

Do you accept the American style 2-party dictatorship ? Why the "either Neo-Lib or Neo-Con" fallacy of false choice ?

The NDP and Green Party want to pursue the more progressive Scandinavian model, which is alot better than the insane American model. Current empirical evidence proves this.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

Then you go and post that...
nobody is forcing you to stay. 40 percent of Canadians are supporting a party with a hardline stance towards drugs.

You are also talking to someone who wouldn't mind alcohol prohibition. A lot of the real crimes stem from the effects of mind altering substances, it's too bad the gov't caved on alcohol, and we're seeing the problems arising from that.

It is the fact that we have rules is what makes us a civilized and prosperous society. We in Canada draw the line with drug use. We live in a democratic society that has chosen to keep drugs illegal, if you don't like it you can run for office, vote for the party that is similar to your views, or leave; hardly the makings of a fascist society. It's too bad that it's one vote to a customer, and that a large number of Canadians don't care about legalizing drug use and don't want to pay for the effects of legalized drug use.

Again, you ignore the fact the Pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco ARE DRUGS, and are in fact FAR MORE LETHAL AND ADDICTIVE than cannabis or coca leaves.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.

You are blind to reality, as are ALL Neo-Cons. The Republican cult and Neo-Con dogma has rendered you an oblivious ignoramus.

The Danish cartoon was an intentional attempt at islamo-fascist provocation by a right-wing rag. It's christo-fascism vs. the islamists.

And stop copying and pasting the WW2 defense, we are talking about US policy since the 1950's. The anti-Hitler concensus was justified, as is the anti-Bush concensus today. Both are military-corporate dogmatists. Calculate the number of innocent islamic/arabic/middle eastern civilians killed as a result of bush-cheney foreign policy when his brutally destructive term is over. It won't be in the millions, but it will be in the 100,000+ realm.

You lose.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

bush_cheney2004 · September 16, 2008

Again, you ignore the fact the Pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco ARE DRUGS, and are in fact FAR MORE LETHAL AND ADDICTIVE than cannabis or coca leaves.

...then of course cannabis, cocaine, and opiates are pefectly legal for sale and consumption in ALL of progressive Scandinavia and Europe...right? :lol:

Edited September 16, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.

You are blind to reality, as are ALL Neo-Cons. The Republican cult and Neo-Con dogma has rendered you an oblivious ignoramus.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

bush_cheney2004 · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.
You are blind to reality, as are ALL Neo-Cons. The Republican cult and Neo-Con dogma has rendered you an oblivious ignoramus.

Of course....while you have simply failed to check the latest economic performance of the EuroZone. Less harmful is for losers.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

...then of course cannabis, cocaine, and opiates are pefectly legal for sale and consumption in ALL of progressive Scandinavia and Europe...right?

No, I never said that, so stop lying like a Bush-Bot. Look at them and Holland compared to the US, overall, they are far less prohibitionist. The US has the highest incarceration rate on earth, due to hyper-criminalization.

What you dumb neo-cons can learn by studying Euro-Scandinavian policies (social, foreign and economic) is more than your pea-brains in a straw can handle.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

Of course....while you have simply failed to check the latest economic performance of the EuroZone. Less harmful is for losers.

You are an insane, oblivious ignoramus. Europe and Scandinavia have not had the US style collapse. US child poverty is over 20%, in Denmark, it's 5%.

But growing the military-industrial-prison complex is a Republican priority, and the general populace is to be sacrificed for this end.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.

You are blind to reality, as are ALL Neo-Cons. The Republican cult and Neo-Con dogma has rendered you an oblivious ignoramus.

The Danish cartoon was an intentional attempt at islamo-fascist provocation by a right-wing rag. It's christo-fascism vs. the islamists.

And stop copying and pasting the WW2 defense, we are talking about US policy since the 1950's. The anti-Hitler concensus was justified, as is the anti-Bush concensus today. Both are military-corporate dogmatists. Calculate the number of innocent islamic/arabic/middle eastern civilians killed as a result of bush-cheney foreign policy when his brutally destructive term is over. It won't be in the millions, but it will be in the 100,000+ realm.

You lose.

bush_cheney2004 · September 16, 2008

You are an insnae, oblivious ignoramus. Europe and Scandinavia have not had the US style collapse. US child poverty is over 20%, in Denmark, it's 5%.

No balls..no blue chips. US poor want (and get) wide screen televisions instead.

But growing the military-industrial-prison complex is a Republican priority, and the general populace is to be sacrificed for this end.

Is this a bad thing?

bush_cheney2004 · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.

This doesn't make any sense....can I buy a kilo of heroin legally in Stockholm or not?

You are blind to reality, as are ALL Neo-Cons. The Republican cult and Neo-Con dogma has rendered you an oblivious ignoramus.
The Danish cartoon was an intentional attempt at islamo-fascist provocation by a right-wing rag. It's christo-fascism vs. the islamists.

My cartoon of Mohammad:

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b ........................OI\___/OILOILOIL\___/OIL.....

b ........................OILOILOILO___LOILOILOIL.....

b .........................OILOILOIL\oo/OILOILOIL......

b ..........................OILOILOIL\_/OILOILOIL......

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b .................................ILOILOILOILO..........

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And stop copying and pasting the WW2 defense, we are talking about US policy since the 1950's. The anti-Hitler concensus was justified, as is the anti-Bush concensus today. Both are military-corporate dogmatists. Calculate the number of innocent islamic/arabic/middle eastern civilians killed as a result of bush-cheney foreign policy when his brutally destructive term is over. It won't be in the millions, but it will be in the 100,000+ realm.
You lose.

No...progressive assholes do not tolerate militarism of any kind. Hug your enemy and love him before he kills you.

PoliticalCitizen · September 16, 2008

Again, you ignore the fact the Pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco ARE DRUGS, and are in fact FAR MORE LETHAL AND ADDICTIVE than cannabis or coca leaves.

OK Mr. 6pack, I do agree with the addictiveness with alcohol and tobacco, haven't tried any antidepressants.

I also agree with cannabis (even though the overdoze makes you paranoid) and I would add MDMA (E) to the list of safe and even "recommended" recreation drugs. They are refered to as "Psychotropic substances" and do not result if a physical dependency. I would legalize them and sell them at LCBO - like stores.

But opiates (all derivatives and synthetic replacements), cocaine (and other coca derivatives), methamphetamine (and similar) should be VERY VERY illegal as they create an addiction stronger than any legal or "semi-legal" substances. You can become a slave after 1 shot.

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

But is the prohibition and hyper-criminalization of the more addictive and lethal illicit substances really the only road ? You simply empower organized crime takeover of the production and distribution of the toxic opiates, and then wreck the lives of the misled opiate addict by harshly criminalizing him. He becomes impoverished/incarcerated, prone to using dirty needles and infections. The 3 primary benefactors are the prison industry, organized crime kingpins and the DEA police state.

By giving the distribution of the more lethal and addictive drugs (heroin, opium) to licensed doctors, and strongly regulating/limiting the production with sanctioned farms, you disempower the prison industry, organized crime leaders and police state Fascism. With progressive medical treatments (above and beyond methodone), the person can be saved.

The war on drugs CAUSES more social and economic problems than it solves. The US prohibitionist model proves it.

As for UNREFINED coca leaves, they are about as addictive as caffeine, and similarly, are relatively non-lethal. It's driving the production/distribution underground via prohibition which creates incentive for devising the most concentrated and synthetic form.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

Don't forget about lethality. Alcohol and tobacco are extremely lethal (AND about as addictive as heroin/crack), the statistics prove it. 100,000+ deaths / yr. in North America as a direct result.

But if you criminalize the production & distribution of alcohol & tobacco, you do not significantly reduce the use, but instead drive the entire industry into the underground abyss. The authoritarian method of banishment is certainly not the answer.

Freedom, Liberty and education IS.

That's why tobacco use in Canada has plumetted over the last couple of decades.

Ban tobacco, and you do NOTHING to help society.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

No balls..no blue chips. US poor want (and get) wide screen televisions instead.
Is this a bad thing?

You are stuck in 1950's oil baron regressivity. And you dismissed Eisenhower's warning of the growing military-industrial complex.

You are anti-life, anti-liberty, anti-freedom, inhumane, and repressive of empirical reality. A typical neo-con chickenhawk warmonger, locked into his far-right authoritarian dogma. A Neo-Fascist : grow the gov't connected corporations, grow the military, start preemptive wars, target the demonized foreign population, and use nationalism and faith as spiritual fuel.

Much like Hitler.

The US poor are far greater in (per capita) number and severity than the Scandinavian poor.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

Joesixpack5 · September 16, 2008

This doesn't make any sense....can I buy a kilo of heroin legally in Stockholm or not?
My cartoon of Mohammad:

b ....................................OILOILOIL..............

b .............................OILOILOILOILOILO........

b ...........................OILOILOILOILOILOILO........

b .........................OIL__ILOILOILOILOI__OIL......

b ........................OI/XXX\ILOILOILO/XXX\OI......

b ........................OI\___/OILOILOIL\___/OIL.....

b ........................OILOILOILO___LOILOILOIL.....

b .........................OILOILOIL\oo/OILOILOIL......

b ..........................OILOILOIL\_/OILOILOIL......

b ...........................OILOILOILOILOILOILO.......

b .................................ILOILOILOILO..........

b .................................ILOILOILOILO..........

b ..................................OIL""""""OIL..........

b ..................................OIL""""""OIL..........

b ...................................OI^^^OIL............

b ......................................OILOIL..............

No...progressive assholes do not tolerate militarism of any kind. Hug your enemy and love him before he kills you.

Your approach grows the opposition by fueling their emotive impetus via aggressive Fascist polarity, occupation, mayhem and mass killing.

And you are willfully blind, deaf and dumb about it.

Oblivious Neo-Con in destructive mode.

That's because your dogma has rendered you incapable of seeing rational 3rd alternatives.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

Argus · September 16, 2008

bush-cheney, you refuse to see the disastrous effects of applied Neo-Con economic, social and foreign policies. You fail to identify where Europe and Scandinavian policies are more moderate, pragmatic and less harmful.

How many times are you going to post this, you wack job?

blueblood · September 16, 2008

How many times are you going to post this, you wack job?

report him to the moderator...

bush_cheney2004 · September 16, 2008

Your approach grows the opposition by fueling their emotive impetus via aggressive Fascist polarity, occupation, mayhem and mass killing.

That's OK...bullets are cheap.

And you are willfully blind, deaf and dumb about it.

Correct...I don't need your progressive permission.

Oblivious Neo-Con in destructive mode.
That's because your dogma has rendered you incapable of seeing rational 3rd alternatives.

Oh, I can see them just fine, which makes them easier to mock.

PoliticalCitizen · September 16, 2008

But is the prohibition and hyper-criminalization of the more addictive and lethal illicit substances really the only road ? You simply empower organized crime takeover of the production and distribution of the toxic opiates, and then wreck the lives of the misled opiate addict by harshly criminalizing him. He becomes impoverished/incarcerated, prone to using dirty needles and infections. The 3 primary benefactors are the prison industry, organized crime kingpins and the DEA police state.
By giving the distribution of the more lethal and addictive drugs (heroin, opium) to licensed doctors, and strongly regulating/limiting the production with sanctioned farms, you disempower the prison industry, organized crime leaders and police state Fascism. With progressive medical treatments (above and beyond methodone), the person can be saved.

The war on drugs CAUSES more social and economic problems than it solves. The US prohibitionist model proves it.

As for UNREFINED coca leaves, they are about as addictive as caffeine, and similarly, are relatively non-lethal. It's driving the production/distribution underground via prohibition which creates incentive for devising the most concentrated and synthetic form.

True prohibition and tougher sentences for addictive drugs is the ONLY road. They are as dangerous and deadly as handguns and biological agents (anthrax). By "True" prohibition I mean the governments today are most likely covertly involved in the production / distribution / sale of highly addictive substances - it is very hard to explain the abundance of relatively exotic drugs.

That, in combination with legalizing the non-addictive psychotropic substances that could be classified as "recreational drugs", should keep most people well within the legal territory when they indulge in more sophisticated methods of relaxation.