Stephen Harper Is Just Like George Bush

[Joesixpack5]

Now that it looks like Harper is going to get his majority and have a free hand to put everything on his wishlist into policy, we'll see how far he his willing to go to keep his Republican friends happy! Now that Afghanistan is turning into a quagmire, will he have the guts to reverse course and pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan? If he really supports the troops, that would be the right thing to do.

Remember, Harper faithfully supported the Iraq smashing from the get go.

He's a blind, Republican puppet, with a glazed smile ...... he's oblivious to the destructive manifestations of Bush-Wacko Neo-Conservative mayhem.

[Joesixpack5]

Yes...in 2011. "Bush" will be gone by January of 2009, so I guess your alleged "poodle" will be lost.

Harper is Bush and Cheney's robot, not their poodle.

Poodles display exuberant emotions, and behavioural spontaneity. They have empathy, and learn from Bush's brutal mistakes.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

That 2011 better be one campaign promise he keeps! The only reason he offered up that number was that his pollsters have already told him that a majority of Canadians see Afghanistan as another Vietnam, and want the troops out. If he said: "we'll stand down when they stand up" or "50, 100 years, we have to stay until the job gets done" his poll numbers would have tanked.

And speaking of Mr. hundred years war, McCain is an even bigger nutcase warhawk than George Bush is. If he becomes president, he'll be doing whatever strongarm tactics he can find to keep NATO allies in Afghanistan.

60% of Canadians want weed to be decriminalized and/or legalized. An even greater majority want our preemptive, Bushian war mode to STOP. Every time you kill an innocent civilian with generalized bad guy hunting, you CREATE 2-3 more terrorist prospects via orphanization, tragedy and disdain.

[Joesixpack5]

The problem is that these so called "freedom fighters" are nothing more than dirty animals who will purposely hide among civilian populations and attack Nato troops then run back and hide among the Population so if Nato hits back they will accidently kill innocent civilians then the terrorist's can say "look Nato kills women and children"!!! these are the most cowardly scum of all! won t fight Nato like soldiers! filthy cowards....even the Nazis in ww2 as bad as they were at least came out in uniform and fought as men and didn t hide behind women and children!!

It is part of the Bush-Cheney preemptive-aggressive war mentality to TOLERATE a certain number of civilian deaths in the general strategy of "bad guy targetting". The other countries are mimicking that approach.

The only solution is discourse, compromise, treaties and withdrawl via political reconciliation.

Either that, or keep up the relentless preemptive war strategy, and decimate the entire population, which puts one in the same cataegory as a genocidal Hitler.

[Joesixpack5]

Not true at all, Harper nor the CPC does not and never has modeled any policy after Republican policies, absolute nonsense.

They mimic the Republicans war on drugs by proposing a 6 month minimum sentence for ANY Canadian who grows 1 pot plant. They mimic the Republican party when they showed willingness to participate in the Iraq smashing as soon as it was eminent. Harper was all ready, set to go. They mimic the Republicans by being driven by the Alberta oil patch (Canada's Texas). They have a hardcore Christian Fundamentalist Stockwell Day and the support of the entire Alberta bible belt.

What you're not seperating is *how much OF that Neo-Con agenda they'll publicly support given the constraints of minority government status and an impending election*. They will pretend to be soft, approachable, compassionate and moderate, via the current media makeover (which is a FRAUD). But then, they will ram through Neo-Conservative destructionism after a majority is attained, via the brutal and authoritarian policies based on corporate greed, moral persecution, incarceration, torture and war.

[Joesixpack5]

Indeed.

The stand Harper took on Afghanistan in this election is consistent with where Harper wants to take conservatism in this country, as he admitted openly. One plank of this plan is to listen more closely to Canadians.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...hen-harper.aspx

Why is the fact that the Conservative party is listening to the population, i.e. on the Afghanistan pullout, interpreted as pandering and not considered just good governance? Mind you, if we asked the man/woman on the street, chances are they wouldn't go to our length of interpreting Harper's motive for taking a firm stand on the pullout, only that he/she agrees.

You are a Neo-Con apologist, and are facilitating the media makeover duping of the Canadian populace.

We've seen the flip-flops, lies, obfuscations, crisis and secrecy. The income trust scandal, alcohol smuggling candidates (in BC), breaking their own election law, muzzling Neo-Conservative outbursts, repressing media access, the attempted Cadman sway/bribe, Schrieber connections, the Arar case, the Listeria outbreak, plunging Canada toward debt, Taser mayhem, economic instability, higher cost of living/inflation, superfical and cosmetic election commercials, and never ONCE criticizing ONE policy or action of the Bush administration.

Non Neo-Cons knows what this means : it means that Harper & Co. are attempting to provide a MISLEADING image, duping the public into thinking that they are not extremists. But their unconditional support of the US war on drugs, the Iraq war, earth destruction for oil and corporatism, shows that they ARE Bushian Neo-Cons.... BENEATH the misleading, cosmetic surface.

Vote ABC - ANYTHING But Conservative !!!

[Joesixpack5]

Don't Tase me Bro!

Don't dare criticize authority or protest.

The 'zap' you hear and feel is your final warning.

[Joesixpack5]

Wow, replace Afghanistan with Iraq and we have 2005.

lol

Flee!!! Flee!!

lol

1000's of dead soldiers and 1000's of dead civilians is NEVER funny.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

I thought Iraq was the 'other' Vietnam. Keep hoping and it will come true one of these times I guess.

I wonder where else the West can surrender.

If we would have gone into Sudan I'm sure that would have been another 'Vietnam' too and ironically many on the left were calling for that very thing.

Another chickenhawk warmonger ?

Laughing at mass death ?

I thought right-wing extremists were pro-life...

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

George Bush is not a Neo-con.

As one poster suggested, a little reading might help, but probably not. Joe sounds pretty locked down on his position.

Neocons are not necessary in Canada we are already socialist. Obama would be elected in Canada in a heartbeat - Americans, not being particularly socialist for the most part, will give Obama a tough ride. Neocons will help Obama.

Stephen Harper is friendly to the US, Chretien and the Liberals showed open disrespect and some even despised America under both Clinton and Bush. Clinton was more like Harper than Bush.

Joe is one of those average guys that likes to have the government bully people of whom he disapproves. Just like I like the government to bully people of whom I disapprove - like criminals. The basic problem is one of justice and knowing who the criminals are. Personally, I think they are people who infringe upon the sanctity of person and property and/or initiate force against others - that would include government. So I think criminals are people that take using force, and I don't know, but I believe people like Joe think criminals are people who need to be forced to live the way he deems they should even if that means taking by force - that would make just about everyone a criminal.

What socialists know is illegal for them to do themselves, they get government to do for them, basically. This concept, in my opinion, this penchant for equality, makes it difficult for them to differentiate what actual criminality is - ownership and private property is confused as public property and we all know how public property gets treated.

Neo-Cons are right-wing authoritarians, not socialist, as they don't redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, but do the opposite. They apply double the tax rate to the middle class compared with the millionaires and billionaires, they give 100 Billion+ dollars per year in corporate welfare, cut social services, privatize health care, etc.

Neo-Cons have gov't involvement for the benefit of the upper class capitalists, corporatists and militarists. Their mantra is tax cuts for the rich, and less safety net for the poor. They are OPPOSED to redistribution of wealth from the upper class to the lower class. They are OPPOSED to any socialist model, and are opposed to even semi-socialist models on the ground in Norway, Finland, Denmark and Sweden. The Semi-socialist Scandinavian countries have 85%+ unionization, the Neo-Cons OPPOSE unionization, and unionization rates in the US are 15% or less. Neo-Cons OPPOSE the welfare state, oppose socialized medicine, universal free education, drug liberalization, and all tax schemes aimed predominantly at the rich.

Bush and Harper are both right-wing Neo-Con authoritarians. They are ANTI-socialist, as they are ANTI-left economically. But, they are FASCIST (Authoritarian) in their domestic social and foreign policies.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2005

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

Layton and May are ANTI-Fascist (Libertarian), semi-socialist.

Harper & Bush are true Neo-Cons, Authoritarian corporatists (predominantly capitalist).

Another distinguishing characteristic of Neo-Cons is their aggressive and ruthlessly imperialistic foreign policy. Also, don't forget about their desire to legislate morality (by banishing drugs they don't approve of, by taking over control of a woman's reproductive system, by embracing a church-state fusion, by banning gay marriage, by prosecuting swear words and nudity on TV, etc.)

Harper & Co. gave us a glimpse of their true, authoritarian corporatist intentions with bills C-26 and C-51.

The fact that Harper & Co. have NEVER ONCE criticized ANY policy or action of the Bush administration, shows very well how far to the upper right they will take us if given free reign.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

I think the opposition parties are making a mistake using Bush in the negative ads against Harper. In many circles, including here on MLW, there are those of the opinion that Harper called the election at this time because he thinks an Obama victory would negatively affect the standing of his party. In their haste to paint Harper as a far right winger, the opposition parties are gearing some of their negative ads to get them to believe that Harper's intention is to bring forward Republican/Bush style policies. This message is also included in stump speeches.

In developing these ads, the opposition may have overlooked something of importance that may negate their message. Bush is not up for re-election and Obama is very much the contender for the presidency. Heck, the majority of Canadians want Obama to win and many genuinely think he will win. We know that there are many Canadians who follow the US elections. As a consequence, when ordinary Canadians see the ads placing Harper and Bush together, what would be their immediate reaction? Would they not think to themselves "That's irrelevant, Bush is gone" or "Obama's gonna win, what's the big deal?" And it won't make a hill of beans difference to those who are already committed to voting for anyone but Harper.

The other thing about using Bush in their ads is that it resurrects the "scary" and "hidden agenda" messages used in the 2000 and 2006 campaigns. Canadians have seen Harper in action and if the polls are anywhere near accurate, the Bush/Harper/evil scare tactic may be falling on many deaf ears.

This makes me wonder about the tactical usefulness of using Bush in negative ads in this campaign. I'm not disputing some people will be swayed by these ads. But with the high cost of advertising I'm not so sure this is the way to go to convince Canadians not to vote for the Conservatives.

Harper & Co. supported the Iraq war from the get go, believed that Kyoto was a vast socialist conspiracy to extract wealth from the capitalists, put forth Fascist bills in the form of C-26 and C-52, and have never once criticized ANY policy or action of the Bush administration. They have a Christian evangelical base, are tied to the Alberta oil patch, want to defund "offensive" art (according to their puritanical religious standard), fully support the US war on drugs, and have cut the social safety net (women's programs for example).

Harper & Co. = Bush & Co.

But Harper PRETENDS to be a moderate, given the minority gov't restraints and election scrutiny.

[Joesixpack5]

And that's why the Harris-Decima poll from 8-11 Sept had the Conservatives at 41%.

Anyone who is willing to vote for NeoCon Harper, and his blind support of Republican style governance/policies (and his hero Bush), should wake up and smell the coffee.

[Joesixpack5]

There is just no reason to trust Harper on the afganistan "fixed date " pullout. To Harper fixed date just means the fixed date unless he changes his mind because its politically advantages for him to do so. Harper will find some excuse to keep us at war. If its not afganistan it will be iran or syria. he will just invent some loophole or say the conservatives "interpret " the promise to mean something else. Argus and other conservatives will praise his ability to change his mind as his ability to adapt to the changing situation or some such bullshit.

Harper is a deceptive, dishonest and ruthless politician.

Just like Bush (who promised no nation building, and promised to be a compassionate conservative).

Even in minority gov't status, Harper & Co. have shown ample flip-flopping, broken promises, corruption, incompetence, scandal and policy obfuscation.

Imagine what Harper & Co. would do if given an 8-year Bush style majority.

[Joesixpack5]

This NDP ad in Quebec borders on the bizarre...what the hell kind of neurosis would people need to have for such an ad to be effective? Bring back the jackboots and marching drums!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkb_GgsOD4Q

If you are a blindly dogmatic bush-cheney fan, then you have no hope of understanding the proper exposure of Neo-Con destructionism.

[Joesixpack5]

Unfortunately people like Harper and Bush seem to think the very worst criminals are those who infringe on their own sanctity and they propose to use the power of the state to force these "criminals" to comply with the initiations of whatever moral collective they claim they represent.

Conservatives clearly want the government to use force to make people stop doing things to themselves, and don't seem to have any problem with turning people into criminals too. Of course its bad when individuals try to force one another to do things to themselves against their will but its far worse when state takes a penchant for making everyone behave the same way. Moral engineering is far more utopian than social engineering any day of the week.

I'm a socialist or so I'm told, and I don't have the slightest desire to make the state act the way you seem to think socialists want. Then again you seem to think neo-cons are the new left or something so its really difficult to know where you're coming from.

Some promote the fallacy that simply because the Neo-Cons are economically not at the right-wing purist extreme, they are socialist. Note : 3 to 4 notches to the right of center is not socialist, it is predominantly capitalist. If you support 10% corporate taxes and 15% income taxes on the rich, and use most of the gathered tax revenue to fund militarism and corporatism, you are authoritarian-capitalist / militaristic-corporatist (IOW, Fascist).

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

Actually, the empirical evidence is that many of them have joined NATO. Maybe they are just hedging their "center-left" bets.

NATO policy and action is to be forever scrutinized. Military tactics and strategy are to be as well. But a blind bush-cheney supporter believes in Fascist allegiance and zero scrutiny.

It's important to note the foreign policy of the US under 8 years of Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeldian rule is drastically different than that applied by Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark over the last few decades.

If the US had adopted the rationally pragmatic, humanitarian foreign policy of Scandinavia over the last 30-40 years, the world would have more peace, and the US wouldn't be collapsing economically. Terrorists would have less impetus.

But under Neo-Con rule, the US is a rampaging military-industrial-prison-torture complex monster. Eisenhower warned you. But 100's upon 100's of international bases later, and 100's of 1000's of deaths later, you are still blind to empirical reality, and are immune to any and all rational discourse.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[M.Dancer]

Bush is known to attend meetings...

Harper also attends meetings....

Bush = Harper!!

[wulf42]

Anyone who is willing to vote for NeoCon Harper, and his blind support of Republican style governance/policies (and his hero Bush), should wake up and smell the coffee.

Well its better than living with a Corrupt Liberal Goverment that screws the military...bashes the U.S. and supports terrorists operatng freely within our country...liberals would never want to offend islamic extremists they have rights too under the Liberal party and our welcomed in our country..how sick is that? as far as bashing America goes you would be speaking German or Russian if it weren t for our American friends...Liberal idiots should try to remember this, the only thing protecting Canada from being run over from the Chinese or Russians IS the Americans!!!......Harper is on the right path and will make this country strong with a Majority Goverment protecting the Artic ,arming our military to the teeth with new weapons and making Canada a force to be reckoned with not the laughing stock on the world stage that it was under the Liberals (when chretien went to New York after 9/11 the Americans didn t even know who he was..lol), there is no room for a weak. appeasing the enemy Liberal Goverment in a time of terrorism and war!!!

Edited September 15, 2008 by wulf42

[bush_cheney2004]

NATO policy and action is to be forever scrutinized. Military tactics and strategy are to be as well. But a blind bush-cheney supporter believes in Fascist allegiance and zero scrutiny.

OK...but NATO membership continues to grow. It existed long before "bush-cheney" or "neo-cons". See Kosovo.

It's important to note the foreign policy of the US under 8 years of Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeldian rule is drastically different than that applied by Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark over the last few decades.

Also different from Canada's foreign policy over the same period....in fact, the policy differences from such countries for both Canada and the USA transcend any single American administration....just count the Canuck/Yankee bombs.

If the US had adopted the rationally pragmatic, humanitarian foreign policy of Scandinavia over the last 30-40 years, the world would have more peace, and the US wouldn't be collapsing economically. Terrorists would have less impetus.

This is a false notion....as the "terrorists" and supporters are wreaking havoc with the social fabric of Scandinavian countries as well. Wanna buy some cartoons?

But under Neo-Con rule, the US is a rampaging military-industrial-prison-torture complex monster. Eisenhower warned you. But 100's upon 100's of international bases later, and 100's of 1000's of deaths later, you are still blind to empirical reality, and are immune to any and all rational discourse.

The USA is the same as it ever was...see Cold War. Current events on your radar do not overshadow the much larger and chronic conditions of pre and post WW2 conflict. Many would argue that the collapse of the FSU permitted these lesser gods to run without a leash.

Edited September 15, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

I'm human and fallible, but I try to speak boldly. I genuinely admire the older era moderate conservatives (like Joe Clark). They are not social democrats like me, May and Layton, but they are flexible, rational and non-dogmatic. The moderate conservatives are secure and pragmatic, realizing that when you go to the ultra-right extreme, you cause major damage. The Neo-Cons have effectively hijacked the Conservative party, destroying it's 1980 identity, and have rendered it Neo-Fascist WRT social, economic and foreign policy.

Of course the left approved of Joe Clark as a Conservative since Joe Clark was actually a small-l liberal. That was why the old Tory party collapsed. There was no reason to vote for them - especially with a clown like Clark at the helm. But to suggest that Harper, a moderate, centre-right conservative is, in effect, "ultra right" and "neo-fascist" reveals such a corruption in ideological beliefs as to throw the poster way over on the far fringes of the far left. From way out there, anything even near the centre is "Fascist!"

[Argus]

Stop the ad hominem slop, and rationally attack the ideas and policies of libertarian social democracy instead.

Geel, how surprising that joey doesn't realize that in broad-brushing all conservatives as idiots and fascist and name everyone who disagrees with him he's going to get insulted in return.

How surprising he's self righteous about it. Who woulda thunk it?

[Argus]

60% of Canadians want weed to be decriminalized and/or legalized. An even greater majority want our preemptive, Bushian war mode to STOP.

How odd that Harper's approval ratings keep rising higher and higher then.

Not too good with the numbers thing, are yas?

Every time you kill an innocent civilian with generalized bad guy hunting, you CREATE 2-3 more terrorist prospects via orphanization, tragedy and disdain.

Well, since you can't make war without occasional civilian deaths I suppose your answer is to just never make war - no matter what, right?

[Argus]

They mimic the Republicans war on drugs by proposing a 6 month minimum sentence for ANY Canadian who grows 1 pot plant.

Weren't you going to explain how we stop your legal cocoa plants from spawning illegal cocaine and crack - without any laws against that?

[DrGreenthumb]

Geel, how surprising that joey doesn't realize that in broad-brushing all conservatives as idiots and fascist and name everyone who disagrees with him he's going to get insulted in return.

How surprising he's self righteous about it. Who woulda thunk it?

So says the expert on such things. I'd say you are the forum leader on personal attacks, insults and just plain dumb posts.

[blueblood]

I for one have read this thread and am outraged...

I hope the moderator has been reading this, if the OP isn't inflammatory rhetoric I don't know what is...

Anywho, there isn't anything I can add unless JosieSix wants to discuss agriculture...