Senior Tory spokesman suspended

[M.Dancer]

but there weren't any Liberal candidates out there stupid enough to take shots at a grieving father.

This father would have liked the Liberal position just as little as the CPC position, so there was no point in arguing with him.

It should be noted that the father's position is we stay in Afghanistan till the job is done.

Davis' comments

Earlier Thursday, Davis said it would be ideal to have Canadian soldiers home by 2011 but setting a deadline "undermines the work our soldiers are doing and it undermines the mission."

He said the deadline makes it difficult for Canadian soldiers to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people if they know troops will be gone in two years.

"I would never want to see another soldier go in harm's way so I can justify my son's death," Davis told CTV's Canada AM.

"But at the same time if we pull up stakes and come home when we're not ready to -- when the mission is not complete -- if we did that then my son died in vain."

Edited September 11, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Argus]

It should be noted that the father's position is we stay in Afghanistan till the job is done.

It is mine too, but the Afghan mission has been a millstone around Harper's neck since the Liberals backtracked on their support in search of votes. Since then they've taken every opportunity to score political points against the Tories on the Afghan issue and to portray themselves as the party of peace. The NDP and BQ have been opposed, as well, of course, but their opposition is actually genuine. The Liberal opposition is mere contrivance. They were the ones who created the mission, after all.

[Argus]

but there weren't any Liberal candidates out there stupid enough to take shots at a grieving father.

This father would have liked the Liberal position just as little as the CPC position, so there was no point in arguing with him.

He wan't a candidate, and I don't see how pointing out someone's political affiliation constitutes "taking shots" at a grieving father.

[guyser]

The Liberal Party decided to politicize this war as a way of getting votes. Everything else flows from that.

One is an entity, the other a person. Big difference.

[M.Dancer]

He wan't a candidate, and I don't see how pointing out someone's political affiliation constitutes "taking shots" at a grieving father.

Because no one know what his affiliation is. It was done to discredit him pure and simple

[guyser]

and I don't see how pointing out someone's political affiliation constitutes "taking shots" at a grieving father.

Because it can be reasonably argued that he said the dad was a Lib supporter in order to dismiss his concerns.

[Smallc]

And now Geoff Norquay accused CTV of implying something when they asked about the rumour that the RCMP was ordered to keep the media away from Mr Harper over this issue. Its not like the media would ever ask questions. Its not like that's their job. This party gets less likable every day.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Smallc

[Ontario Loyalist]

And now Geoff Norquay accused CTV of implying something when they asked about the rumour that the RCMP was ordered to keep the media away from Mr Harper over this issue. Its not like the media would ever ask questions. Its not like that's their job. This party gets less likable every day.

If I recall correctly, it was reported that one of Harper's aides had "instructed" the RCMP to keep reporters wanting to ask Harper about this issue away; about ten minutes later the same reporter corrected it a little stating that the RCMP was there to provide security for Harper and not to impede journalists from reporting on the story, and that Harper would shortly address the issue in his planned speech, which he did. Whatever the case, no apology this time.

[jdobbin]

Well that's why you guys started it, right?

Thought Harper said he was going to do things differently.

[jay22]

And now Geoff Norquay accused CTV of implying something when they asked about the rumour that the RCMP was ordered to keep the media away from Mr Harper over this issue. Its not like the media would ever ask questions. Its not like that's their job. This party gets less likable every day.

I think it a very big probleam if people are deciding there voting on stuff like this and not policys.

[Smallc]

I think it a very big probleam if people are deciding there voting on stuff like this and not policys.

Why? It speaks to the attitude of the conservative party.

[jay22]

Why? It speaks to the attitude of the conservative party.

Because votes should not be based on attitudes.If people do the chances are there will be another election in a year.Each party has done stupid things at times.

[Smallc]

Because votes should not be based on attitudes.If people do the chances are there will be another election in a year.Each party has done stupid things at times.

I'm sorry, but the attitude of the people that we are voting for can be just as important is as their policies. In many ways, their future policy choices can be formed by their attitudes.

[jay22]

I'm sorry, but the attitude of the people that we are voting for can be just as important is as their policies. In many ways, their future policy choices can be formed by their attitudes.

So you should vote for someone you don't agree with.

[Smallc]

So you should vote for someone you don't agree with.

I never said that.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper has proven that he can not be trusted. He word is worthless. This campaign should be about who we can trust to do what they say. There are numerous examples of Harper's lies, ask the Premier of NFLD and Lab. about the realities of Harper. The man is a self serving meglomaniac who changes his colours like most people change their shorts. A man concerned with unity? What about the Alberta Firewall letter? No new taxes? What about income trusts? Fixed election dates to avoid political manipulation of the democratic system? Yeah right.

Lets look at how he handles his own people. He doesn't allow them to speak for themselves very often now does he. You can see why, when all of those yes people answer questions from the press they make Harper look like an idiot.

[eyeball]

(M.Dancer @ Sep 11 2008, 01:57 PM)

It should be noted that the father's position is we stay in Afghanistan till the job is done.

It is mine too, but the Afghan mission has been a millstone around Harper's neck since the Liberals backtracked on their support in search of votes. Since then they've taken every opportunity to score political points against the Tories on the Afghan issue and to portray themselves as the party of peace. The NDP and BQ have been opposed, as well, of course, but their opposition is actually genuine. The Liberal opposition is mere contrivance. They were the ones who created the mission, after all.

Political contrivance was also an element of the Liberal's decision to get involved. Note that Harper and the Conservatives loudly supported it from day one and were continually barking up the Liberal's backs to get even more involved. Conservatives have insisted on politicizing the war on terror and using the kind of language and positioning that was guaranteed to put the Liberals on the spot, hence the contrivance, to be seen as being just as tough as the Conservatives. Harper would have dragged us into Iraq as well if he'd had any say in the matter at the time.

I believe Harper's position is that we stay in Afghanistan till the job is done too. I think his sudden urge to declare 2011 will in fact be the end date is a political contrivance designed to make him appear sweet and as un-tough as the Liberals. Another throwaway 'promise' (like his carbon plan) that I'm quite certain will be out the window should he ever actually win a majority.

Liberals and Conservatives have to varying degrees and times both politicized this mission since day one. Weren't there any alarms going off in the heads of military people and families in Canada since day one as well because of that? If they do the next time the politicians try to drag Canada into a hopeless quagmire I will have to agree that no soldiers died in vain in Afghanistan.

[jay22]

Harper has proven that he can not be trusted. He word is worthless. This campaign should be about who we can trust to do what they say. There are numerous examples of Harper's lies, ask the Premier of NFLD and Lab. about the realities of Harper. The man is a self serving meglomaniac who changes his colours like most people change their shorts. A man concerned with unity? What about the Alberta Firewall letter? No new taxes? What about income trusts? Fixed election dates to avoid political manipulation of the democratic system? Yeah right.

Lets look at how he handles his own people. He doesn't allow them to speak for themselves very often now does he. You can see why, when all of those yes people answer questions from the press they make Harper look like an idiot.

Name one party in the past 20 years that has been 100% honest.

[Topaz]

I think while some of you are debating if the Cons or the Libs are worthy of the PMO, Jack may be able to pull off a "RAE" and get a minority gov't, maybe the voters will have an "October surprise" for the politicans!! Don't say it can't happen because it has in the past.

[jay22]

I think while some of you are debating if the Cons or the Libs are worthy of the PMO, Jack may be able to pull off a "RAE" and get a minority gov't, maybe the voters will have an "October surprise" for the politicans!! Don't say it can't happen because it has in the past.

The only one that really has a shot is the ndp.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Now there is some food for thought! As a matter of fact I just made up my mind, and will vote NDP just to bump their popular support! I would truely love to see both the Liberals and the Conservatives suck it up! They certainly deserve some humble pie.

[Bryan]

Harper has proven that he can not be trusted. He word is worthless. This campaign should be about who we can trust to do what they say.

He did everything I was voting for. Almost everything he did differently I either hoped he would change his mind on anyway, or didn't care about it either way.

Even now, on some of the issues that left leaning people are warning might not happen if Harper wins, I'm still having that "I hope you're right" feeling, and it only makes me want to vote for him more.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Vote the way you want Bryan. The simple fact of the matter is that in my mind Harper is no better than Dion, and that is less than a vote of confidence in the leadership qualities of either one of them.

I applaud the fact that folks in this country can choose to support whom ever they please. Yet there are those of us who simply do not participate in the democratic system of choosing our government. You are entitled to your opinion and choice, that is a good thing. Can you imagine not having that choice? For me the whole thing is about choices for citizens and that is why I personally support the concept of direct democracy in which the politicians propose legislation and that legislation requires a ratification vote of the public before coming into effect. I want the choice, and Harper does not see things that way and therefore I choose not to support him.

The Liberals are much the same as the Conservatives with the possible exception of their support base being citizen orientated instead of business orientated which is why the last vestige of Liberal government got the federal finances in order and eliminated the deficit financing method. Harper seems intent upon handing out corporate welfare at tax payer expense, witness the 50 million handed out to GM and moments later the company closed the doors on yet another auto plant. That was a business decision without doubt, and yet it smells of special interests doesn't it?

I am a westerner from Alberta. Steve was a hero here at one time being one of the authors of the Alberta firewall letter. He soon changed his tune when he sought political power. In order to gain the power he desired he sang a different tune. Look at how that all came about with David Orchard being betrayed by McKay and then in turn Harper rolling him over. A long fought and hard won political battle that was all about attaining power in a federal format. His western origins were soon forgotten and almost as soon as he became the big cheese he taxed the income trusts that were designed to take small production wells and create tax shelters for investors. His position and the position of his party were opposed to such an act of taxation, and yet eastern Canadians favoured it. Where are the power brokers in this nation I ask you? He traded his values for power. Further to that he makes deals and promises during election campaigns and then backs away from them, if you doubt this look at the entire debacle of the Atlantic Accords and their attending promises.

The First Nations have the odd bone to pick as well. There are many that do.

Again, I will support the NDP with the hope that they will do as they say, they at least are all about the little guy. With the Liberals and the Conservatives in place little actual harm could come to the economy and the citizens would get a break.

Even so, I would love to see income taxes abolished, fixed election dates, MP recall, and elected judges. I would like Senate reform to balance the will of the regions against the will of the population. I would like to see major constitutional reform and real human rights instead of rights that applied only to minority groups. I would like to see citizens elect leaders instead of partisan hacks.

This nation needs major work. Harper won't fix the problems we face, he will fix the problems he can make political points from. There is a very real difference.

[jdobbin]

The Liberal Party decided to politicize this war as a way of getting votes. Everything else flows from that.

So the Tories assume the father of one of Canada's soldiers killed two years ago is only using his son as fodder for crass political plugs for the Liberals, is that correct?

[jdobbin]

The Liberal opposition is mere contrivance. They were the ones who created the mission, after all.

And set a timetable. The Tories have said timetables are surrender. They are not. They let our allies know that we are not a permanent force and that benchmarks need to be set to achieve mission success. This idea that we will endlessly fighting there is not sustainable. The Afghans and the our allies have to step up do their part.

Canada cannot put a surge in place beyond what we are doing now unless Harper would like to do something really drastic in Canada to do it. We have already said the mission is important. The question is how important is it to our allies?