The Baron of Banality Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Belinda Stronach is quoted as saying that she is ready to be the prime minister and that she disagrees with leadership rival Stephen Harper that money will be a major factor in winning the Conservative leadership race. (Clearly, this comment by Mr. Harper that it was a two person race between him and Belinda because Tony Clement lacked the campaign money and other organizational resources to mount a winning leadership bid shows that Clement is picking up substantial support in the race.) Then Ms. Stronach went on to say that the delegates were smart people who would make their choice based on such considerations as the candidates' track records and what ideas they bring to the leadership race. WOULD BELINDA STRONACH SUPPORTERS PLEASE TELL ME: - What track record does Belinda actually have in political endeavors and what ideas has she expressed that differ in any serious way from the standard boiler plate stuff expressed by all the candidates? Since I had foolishly thought that Ms. Stronach had zero track record in politics and that only Tony Clement thus far has expressed anything resembling a genuine new and exciting idea, I must be uninformed. Please elucidate the alarming extent of my insufferable ignorance and shine the light of truth on this matter. THANK YOU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 A Stronach win would play into the Liberals' hands. Clement was part of Harris' well-oiled political machine but certainly isn't cute, cuddly or fatherly enough to give him a boost at the start. Jack Layton - start talking like a conservative NOW and you will reap rewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Baron of Banality Posted February 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Michael Hardner ... A Stronach win would play into the Liberals' hands. Clement was part of Harris' well-oiled political machine but certainly isn't cute, cuddly or fatherly enough to give him a boost at the start. Jack Layton - start talking like a conservative NOW and you will reap rewards. - MH - YES, the Liberal spin doctors are all going around talking about a Stronach victory in the leadership race. While they don't really expect this to happen, they would be thrilled if it did and they also figure (rightly) that just mentioning her name as a serious candidate subjects the new party to a certain amount of hurtful ridicule. - TRUE but Tony Clement proved he was a good leader during the inclement storms of the SARS crisis and he is capable of more emotion and dynamism as a speaker than Harper who has the charisma of an embalmer. It will come down to Harper vs Clement on the second ballot/count and Tony does have a shot. Unlike Harper who travels with more CA and personal baggage than Imelda Marcos on a shoe buying trip to New York that renders him unelectable east of Manitoba, Clement can hold the bulk of the CA seats in the west while picking up 20-30 seats in Ontario (more if Martin can't lance the Sponsorgate boil) and holding at least a few of the Atlantic Canada seats for a net gain over the two parties 80 seats last time. More importantly, Tony unlike Stephen can unite and grow the party down the road. - The trouble with this is that nobody will believe Jack's 11th hour conversion to fiscal responsibility and the public sector monopoly union for whom he works wouldn't let him walk the walk even if he believed in the talk. Mind you, since his dad was a cabinet minister under Brian Mulroney, he could get some good pointers on how to fake being a conservative. Besides, Jack's best course of action now is to continue bleeding votes from Martin and the Liberals by portraying them as nothing but tories and even more corrupt than the tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnsfurlan Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Jack Layton - start talking like a conservative NOW and you will reap rewards. Guess what? It's never going to happen. He's already gone down the road of bashing corporate Canada. He has also insulted right-of-centre voters by implying theyr'e part of the old scandal structure that exists between the Liberals and Conservatives. "They just go back and forth" I think were the words he used. For all those people who think Jack Layton is the second coming, I'd start re-examining that proposition. If you look at his rise in the polls, its come essentially because he's thrown eggs at the Cons and at Paul Martin. I still don't think Canadians have taken a close look at the guy. If they do, my bet is tha they'll see a guy who is nowhere near being our Prime Minister, and probably not even our leader of the Official Opposition. If Jack Layton himself started being the focus of attention for Canadians, instead of the hard-left in this country, I think the Libs would start breathing a sigh of relief concerning their left flank. Once people take a hard look at Jack Layton, they may see less image and more substance. And I'm not sure that's a good thing for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 - TRUE but Tony Clement proved he was a good leader during the inclement storms of the SARS crisis and he is capable of more emotion and dynamism as a speaker than Harper who has the charisma of an embalmer. It will come down to Harper vs Clement on the second ballot/count and Tony does have a shot. Unlike Harper who travels with more CA and personal baggage than Imelda Marcos on a shoe buying trip to New York that renders him unelectable east of Manitoba, Clement can hold the bulk of the CA seats in the west while picking up 20-30 seats in Ontario (more if Martin can't lance the Sponsorgate boil) and holding at least a few of the Atlantic Canada seats for a net gain over the two parties 80 seats last time. More importantly, Tony unlike Stephen can unite and grow the party down the road. - The trouble with this is that nobody will believe Jack's 11th hour conversion to fiscal responsibility and the public sector monopoly union for whom he works wouldn't let him walk the walk even if he believed in the talk. Mind you, since his dad was a cabinet minister under Brian Mulroney, he could get some good pointers on how to fake being a conservative. Besides, Jack's best course of action now is to continue bleeding votes from Martin and the Liberals by portraying them as nothing but tories and even more corrupt than the tories. On Layton: I don't know if the public sector union would trust him if they learned any lessons from Bob Rae. Also, there are examples of socially progressive programmes that are also more cost effective in the end. Public health care is one of these. I would much rather have a right-of-centre government implement a new programme as I would rather have a left-of-centre government cut a new programme. On Clement... I'm curious about your assertion that Clement was a 'good leader' during the SARS crisis. It reminded me of similar assertions that Mr. Giuliani exhibited great leadership on September 11, 2001. If the statement refers to either leader's courage, commitment, their presence in front of the cameras during the crisis, the calming effect that they had on the public then I understand the statement completely and agree with it. But... Sometimes these statements seem to me to imply more - that either leader made excellent tactical decisions, managed the situation well, provided solutions etc. I can't understand such implications, unless more evidence of such actions is also given. As the man at the top of the organizational pyramid, I can think of only a few ways that a leader can help with things. By getting funds, for example, or by lighting a fire under people to get things done. Granted, these are major ways that a leader can help a solution, but with both crises can anyone say exactly what either leader did beyond their public statements ? I'm all for giving credit where it's due, but sometimes our desire for heroes can lead to mythmaking. I'm honestly curious as to what Clement can be credited for. Please provide me with any references if you can, or just explain your point of view in your usual well-reasoned manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 I've done a little substandard Google research in the 1/2 hour since I posted the questions above. I'll start a new thread on Clement and SARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galahad Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 A Stronach win would play into the Liberals' hands. NO KIDDING. BTW - The only reason Stronach is gaining so much (fake) support is because today every thinking Canadian is realizing that Paul Martin is the best thing that has happened to Canada since Preston Manning and they'll do anything to assure that it is not in any way spoiled by pretty boy Stevie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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