The God Thing

[margrace]

Someone has been reading too many new age books.

I am curious exactly what is a new age book?

[gullyfourmyle]

That seems appropriate when you consider the entire premise the thread is based upon is nothing more than "drivel".

And then Angus Thermopyle delivers a truly sophisticated gem of his own titled:

[charter.rights]

And then Angus Thermopyle delivers a truly sophisticated gem of his own titled:

That's why he has Troll Status. When you cross a bridge that he thinks he owns, he tries make you pay his toll.

[AngusThermopyle]

That's why he has Troll Status. When you cross a bridge that he thinks he owns, he tries make you pay his toll.

Actually maybe you should be more honest and explain that I have no patience for the new age crap you love to attempt to pass as fact. Or your pompous attitude when discussing subjects of which you have either no knowledge or the most rudimentary understanding of. Subjects such as science...or math...not so hot at that, remember?

Further to that I find the whole subject of god and the soul to be a waste of time. Being an atheist who does not subscribe to any ancient myths such as polytheism, pantheism, monotheism or any of the host of other theisms man has concocted over the ages I find the whole topic to be drivel. Arguing about the existence of such mythical constructs is pointless and a circular pursuit at best when one considers that no proof can or will ever be offered.

You may not agree with me CR but I really couldn't give a sh*t what you think, about anything. I thought I'd made that clear to you already.

Now, cue the big colorful font and the demented claims of violence, you may continue.

[DogOnPorch]

In regards to our Universe: It is about 13.7 Billion Years old by our best observations. It is at least 93 billion light years across. Remember, space is expanding so it isn't a paradox that two objects could be 93 billion LY apart in a 13.7 billion year old Universe.

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, so when you view galaxies beyond that figure in light-years, Earth/Solar System hasn't been formed yet...but, still, the Universe exists. Our Sun is a Population I type of star. This means it was formed out of the matter of other former stars that exploded long ago. These Pop I stars are considered 'metal rich'. You, yourself, as Carl Sagan amoung others said, are made of 'star stuff'. Pop II stars are metal poor ('metal' being anything above lithium in this case) while theoretical Pop III stars are 'metal free' and are thought to have populated the very early Universe.

See Star Metallicity for more information....

The oldest star we know of is a Population II star (few heavy 'metals') known as HE 1523-0901 at approx 13.2 billion years of age. It occupies the halo of older stars surrounding our Milky Way galaxy.

Elements heavier than hydrogen, helium and perhaps lithium are formed by nuclear reaction in the cores of stars as they age. Reaction ends with the creation of iron. Supernovas (and regular novas) blast this material into the Cosmos where it condenses (with luck) into new stars. Elements heavier than iron are formed during these explosions by R-process nucleosynthesis. The Pleiades (visible in Taurus) are a great example of new Pop I stars being born out of condensed interstellar 'gases'.

What this says about 'God' or 'Gods' is up to you at this point.

-----------------------------------------

We are the dust of long dead stars.

---Sir Martin Rees

Edited September 10, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[White Doors]

So just exactly what kind of person is White Doors?

C'mon, just exercise your usual infallible psychic abilities. After all, you are the resident expert on "people like you", you know more than they do themselves about other people, so just go ahead and tell us.

Or you could just keep your unfounded opinions about others to yourself, thats the better option actually.

He probably couldn't eben tell us what province we are from Angus

[White Doors]

In regards to our Universe: It is about 13.7 Billion Years old by our best observations. It is at least 93 billion light years across. Remember, space is expanding so it isn't a paradox that two objects could be 93 billion LY apart in a 13.7 billion year old Universe.

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, so when you view galaxies beyond that figure in light-years, Earth/Solar System hasn't been formed yet...but, still, the Universe exists. Our Sun is a Population I type of star. This means it was formed out of the matter of other former stars that exploded long ago. These Pop I stars are considered 'metal rich'. You, yourself, as Carl Sagan amoung others said, are made of 'star stuff'. Pop II stars are metal poor ('metal' being anything above lithium in this case) while theoretical Pop III stars are 'metal free' and are thought to have populated the very early Universe.

See Star Metallicity for more information....

The oldest star we know of is a Population II star (few heavy 'metals') known as HE 1523-0901 at approx 13.2 billion years of age. It occupies the halo of older stars surrounding our Milky Way galaxy.

Elements heavier than hydrogen, helium and perhaps lithium are formed by nuclear reaction in the cores of stars as they age. Reaction ends with the creation of iron. Supernovas (and regular novas) blast this material into the Cosmos where it condenses (with luck) into new stars. Elements heavier than iron are formed during these explosions by R-process nucleosynthesis. The Pleiades (visible in Taurus) are a great example of new Pop I stars being born out of condensed interstellar 'gases'.

What this says about 'God' or 'Gods' is up to you at this point.

-----------------------------------------

We are the dust of long dead stars.

---Sir Martin Rees

Awesome stuff DOP.

[margrace]

I am curious exactly what is a new age book?

Several people, including WhiteDoors, had mentioned new age books on here and I really would like to know their definition of new age.

[White Doors]

Several people, including WhiteDoors, had mentioned new age books on here and I really would like to know their definition of new age.

There is this thing called google..

[margrace]

There is this thing called google..

Oh but I wasn't asking Google was I, what does it mean to you?

[White Doors]

Oh but I wasn't asking Google was I, what does it mean to you?

Oh, ok then. Pretty much anything that parrots the theme of the Celestine Prophesy.

Or if you haven't read that then a visual perhaps?

Ever watch the movie 'Mars attacks'? New Age mysticism is embodied for me in the woman who welcomes the Aliens in the desert.

Edited September 10, 2008 by White Doors

[M.Dancer]

Google provides better deinitions....wikis is rather bang on

New Age (New Age Movement and New Age Spirituality) is a social collective phenomenon and a spiritual nature movement that seeks universal truth through the Oneness of Humanity. It combines aspects of spirituality, cosmology, esotericism, complementary and alternative medicine, various religious practices, and environmentalism. It is characterized by an eclectic and individual approach to spirituality with a general rejection of mainstream dogma and religion. Alternative terms are also used to describe the movement: Self Spirituality, New Spirituality, Mind-Body-Spirit,[1][2] Cultural Creative, Everyone Is Equal, New Paradigm, and All Is One.

The term "New Age" refers to the coming astrological Age of Aquarius. The New Age Movement first appeared in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, gained momentum in the 1960s and 1970s, strengthened in the 1980s, and organized with the Harmonic Convergence in 1987. New Age practices and philosophies are found among many diverse individuals from around the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age

[DogOnPorch]

Awesome stuff DOP.

That's just a layman's view. Real astrophysicists speak in practically their own language of mathematics. In my opinion, astrophysics, cosmology, astrodynamics et al, are the disciplines that are closer to 'the God thing' than any old book of morality stories.

If one also looks at probability, the Universe is so vast with literaly unlimited chances that it is statistically impossible for us to be alone in it. I'm not sure what that does to some folks views on religion. I suspect they ignore those tricky bits...you've got to have faith, after all.

------------------------------------------

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

---Douglas Adams

[charter.rights]

Google provides better deinitions....wikis is rather bang on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age

It is characterized by an eclectic and individual approach to spirituality with a general rejection of mainstream dogma and religion. Alternative terms are also used to describe the movement: Self Spirituality, New Spirituality, Mind-Body-Spirit,[1][2] Cultural Creative, Everyone Is Equal, New Paradigm, and All Is One.

DAMN! Jesus was a New Ager!

[M.Dancer]

It is characterized by an eclectic and individual approach to spirituality with a general rejection of mainstream dogma and religion. Alternative terms are also used to describe the movement: Self Spirituality, New Spirituality, Mind-Body-Spirit,[1][2] Cultural Creative, Everyone Is Equal, New Paradigm, and All Is One.

DAMN! Jesus was a New Ager!

Jesus certainly didn't reject mainstream dogma, in fact he felt he fullfilled it.

[charter.rights]

Jesus certainly didn't reject mainstream dogma, in fact he felt he fullfilled it.

O contrare. He rejected Judaism and its power and ultimately that is why he was murdered.

[M.Dancer]

O contrare. He rejected Judaism and its power and ultimately that is why he was murdered.

Okay. What exactly did he reject? exactly.

[DogOnPorch]

Another thing to consider is that new stars...and thus new solar systems...are being formed as we speak.

This begs a question...

What's 'God' up to? If we humans are the 'end product'...why is the production line still a-runnin'??

-----------------------------------------

I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.

---Stephen Hawking

Edited September 10, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[guyser]

What's 'God' up to? If we humans are the 'end product'...why is the production line still a-runnin'??

Powerful Unions. Kind of like the CAW but able to throw fire and brimstone.

[DogOnPorch]

Powerful Unions. Kind of like the CAW but able to throw fire and brimstone.

No...seriously. If humans are the ultimate creation of 'God', why is he/she/it still making new stars and planets? Is that too tough a question for those who are 'believers'?

------------------------

I am now convinced that theoretical physics is actually philosophy.

---Max Born

[AngusThermopyle]

Okay. What exactly did he reject? exactly.

This is a question that I'm really curious about. My family are devout Catholics and never once have I heard that Jesus rejected Judaism, not from family members, not from priests, not from nuns. Actually never before this from anyone.

So I'm curious as to the answer, although I suspect that I already know what it will consist of.

[gullyfourmyle]

No...seriously. If humans are the ultimate creation of 'God', why is he/she/it still making new stars and planets? Is that too tough a question for those who are 'believers'?

------------------------

I am now convinced that theoretical physics is actually philosophy.

---Max Born

Looks like Thermopyle and DogonPorch are my first converts.

Despite their rejection of New Age Spirituality, both walk the talk. Reminds me of the song: "I'm not in Love".

The God Thing is not about there being a God. It's about the possibility of the electromagnetic fields that hold everything together being able to fulfill the position if you really need the emotional crutch of some sort of God. Some people are comforted by the thought of some sort of God entity even though they understand that the God concept makes no rational sense. There is no law that says people have to be rational about what they believe in. Since there is no such law, we are inflicted with religion.

My personal view of religion is that it's merely an efficient way of maintaining control over large numbers of people who would rather not think issues through to their logical conclusion. It's also a great way of absolving yourself of responsibility in countless convenient ways for countless ideological issues that might at some point prove embarrassing or worse. Religion is also the best way of getting people to do stupid things, even commit crimes without suffering a conscience attack.

On the ground, it provides comfort to those who can't comfort themselves. Grief management is a common application. But since religion is a double edged sword, most don't think about the other aspect of religion and that is the damage religion has caused and will continue to cause nearly every aspect of life on planet earth in some form or another. Unless humanity somehow gets a grip on itself and wakes up that is.

So the circular argument that Thermopyle referred to earlier isn't really circular at all if you can accept the fact that the notion of a God - at least as we can comprehend such a thing - is impossible.

Of course if there is actually a God, then he's a heartless dingbat.

[Oleg Bach]

This is a question that I'm really curious about. My family are devout Catholics and never once have I heard that Jesus rejected Judaism, not from family members, not from priests, not from nuns. Actually never before this from anyone.

So I'm curious as to the answer, although I suspect that I already know what it will consist of.

Funny how the early Christian movement was hyjacked by the early Roman Empire and twisted from a state of mind based on truth and logic and salvation, not to mention the agenda of creating heaven on earth -

BUT - it seems that the universal church (Catholics) practice anti-christism...the opposite to the ancient doctrine...eg... "Put all of our money into a common purse so those can come and take freely as needed (kind of a joint corporate bank account) _ BUT this contract was not fulfilled and is in breach...The Catholics took billions and put it into a common purse over the centuries and did NOT disperse the funds but horded them -

I WOULD SAY THAT THE CONTRACT WAS ONLY HALF FULFILLED...as for Christ rejecting Judaism - he actually said that "your traditions are killing you" to para-phrase - this meant if something is not working toss it in the garbage and keep what is useful...so he did reject Judaism to a great degree but not all of it - He kept the good parts and dumped the illogical socially harmful parts. This is what we should do with established Christianity - dump what does not adhere to the the teachings of Christ even if it is in the bible. THEN use what is in the bible that is logical and that is NOT anti-christism and revisonistic.

It is the God given mind that shows you what is in the bible that is man's prevesity - and what is God's word - the bible is NOT a perfect devine book - it is tainted and it is up to you to figure out the lies - and what is remaining of the truth after all this time - For instance - King David is admired by the Jews to this day - when there is clearly a passage where he lusts after another mans wife and has that man in-directly murdered so he could have sex with this beauty - THIS IS NOT MUCH OF A KING - let alone a man of ethics...but Solomon was a bright fellow unlike his corrupt father David - to build a state on David is like building a state on a Mafia leader who kills to get what he wants - I am not impressed!

[gullyfourmyle]

If you carved all the useless, erroneous and illogical stuff out of the bible, there wouldn't be enough left to be relevant to anything.

[Oleg Bach]

If you carved all the useless, erroneous and illogical stuff out of the bible, there wouldn't be enough left to be relevant to anything.

That is untrue and a very prejudical thing to say - IF out of the NT - you find but one paraghaph of even one sentence that emits from the mouth of the devinely inspired Christ...THEN there is enough power and glory to make filtering through the manuscipt worth while - It's up to you to find the gold - as for the illogical and useless crap and the political lieing and social engineering (Paul was the first super ambitious social engineer) - the jerk never phyiscally met the master - BUT he did assist in the stoneing of the gifted and glowing Saint Stephen - who he resented and was envious of - also it is written in deleted old manuscriptss that Paul (Saul) - was in part responsible for the murder of James the brother of the Christ - so you have to read between the lines and place yourself in the era...there is great deception in religion - but not in God.