McCain picks woman for VP slot

[kimmy]

Far from brillant, that bit was condescending, and showed a gross misunderstanding of the work people who head countless community organisations do. And I am not just talking "left wing" organizations here, but organisations of all political stripes, in all areas of society, both volunteers and people doing it as their paid job.

Life's rough, wear a helmet.

Obama thought making light of her background as a small-town mayor was a good idea; maybe a guy who lists "community organizer" as a major portion of his resume, maybe that's a risky stone to be casting.

If Obama wants to go to the American people and have the debate that "community organizer" is actually a tougher job than Palin made it sound, I am sure the Republicans would welcome having that debate during the course of the campaign.

-k

[kimmy]

If you're just reading a few quotes taken from the speech, you really can't appreciate what a strong performance it was. I doubt that most who watched it is still asking "so why'd they pick her? What does she bring to the table?" People who saw the speech, like it or hate it, now know what she brings to the table, and like it or hate it, she will have to be reckoned with. I doubt the Democrat strategists are laughing tonight.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

The Democrats are taken aback at the sudden turn of events in just a few days....far from John McCain not knowing what he was getting/doing, the Dems are on their heels after tonight's beat down of their candidates from someone they thought they could step on with ease.

It's on.....gonna be one helluva show.

[jdobbin]

If you're just reading a few quotes taken from the speech, you really can't appreciate what a strong performance it was. I doubt that most who watched it is still asking "so why'd they pick her? What does she bring to the table?" People who saw the speech, like it or hate it, now know what she brings to the table, and like it or hate it, she will have to be reckoned with. I doubt the Democrat strategists are laughing tonight.

She certainly brings enthusiasm.

The Democrats will probably just stick to the issues of the economy which obviously are weighing more heavily on many people's minds. On that account, the Republican administration has not done a great job of fiscal conservatism. Palin can't even point to her own record in oil rich Alaska where she ran a deficit as mayor.

In Alaska, Palin was a big spending legislator. She had a surplus in Alaska, however, 80% of the budget coming from oil revenues will do that. The American economy won't get the same lift from oil as the state of Alaska will.

More worrying for people who are not social conservatives is contemplating more religion creeping into government, more restrictions on abortion or the complete overturning of Roe V Wade. All are likely with a more conservative court.

[bush_cheney2004]

...More worrying for people who are not social conservatives is contemplating more religion creeping into government, more restrictions on abortion or the complete overturning of Roe V Wade. All are likely with a more conservative court.

Let 'em worry...one vote to a customer. What goes around comes around.

[Pliny]

I thought her delivery was excellent. I was impressed and inspired. She made Barry look like...well...a cookie cutter politician.

I think the boys in Washington have been messing up the place and someone needs to come in and do a little housecleaning. Hope she is up to it - it's a tough crowd there and they aren't going to take a bath willingly. She'll have to grab 'em by the ear, throw them in and give them a good scrubbing.

[bush_cheney2004]

I can't resist...from a poster over at the CBC:

"Sarah Palin has bigger balls than Stephane Dion".....priceless!

[August1991]

I watched her speech on Youtube. She was nervous at the beginning but she managed to arise above the pressure and show something of herself. She has an ego, and good sense. She can project her personality.

I found remarkable two points in herr speech that I didn't see mentioned elsewhere. She referred to Harry Truman and to Tom Moe, a fellow prisoner of McCain in Vietnam.

Hollywood and America's coastal intellectuals have never really understood the so-called red states. This may explain why, since Kennedy in 1960, teh Democrats have only won the presidency with a southerner.

Vietnam is only one reason that this is an interesting election.

[jefferiah]

If you're just reading a few quotes taken from the speech, you really can't appreciate what a strong performance it was. I doubt that most who watched it is still asking "so why'd they pick her? What does she bring to the table?" People who saw the speech, like it or hate it, now know what she brings to the table, and like it or hate it, she will have to be reckoned with. I doubt the Democrat strategists are laughing tonight.

-k

Agreed Kimmy! She did an amazing job. I've gone from wondering who this woman was and why she was picked, to a fan, in the matter of a few days. She delivered her speech very well, and, might I add, in the face of the barrage of media smears she's taken in over the last few days. I especially relished the part where she addressed the media and political commentators, saying she is not going to Washington to try to gain their approval, but to represent the American people.

Also, I think Giuliani did an amazing job with his speech. WOW.

[jefferiah]

I agree....there is something organic here that I never would have anticipated. Gov Palin brings an energy that counters the early (and now waning) spark provided by Senator Obama......but she has only now arrived on the scene.

Let the games begin.......

"Organic" perfectly describes it. Just watching the convention I felt as if I was in the company of regular people, even friends. Actually, this convention, so far, seems to me like a gathering of friends rather than a gathering of politicians. I am really enjoying it so far.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=Liam: Eh. Her speech was okay, about what I expected. I'll give her the benefit of getting in a few good lines, but her delivery did come across as a bit scripted.

I didn't listen to the speech but I was certain that "the Left" would immediately step in and claim that someone else wrote it.

Someone else did write it. Matthew Scully, to be precise.

[Liam]

I didn't listen to the speech but I was certain that "the Left" would immediately step in and claim that someone else wrote it.

In a sense, this isn't sexism. The Dems did the same with Reagan and Bush Jnr. They played the man; not the ball. They'll try to portray Palin as a lightweight.

If they do, they'll do themselves double disservice. Palin may be a woman but she's no lightweight.

Uhhh, someone else did write it. It was announced by the McCain campaign beforehand that some guy named Sculley(?) wrote the speech for her. My point wasn't that someone else wrote the words for her -- most politicias just mouth someone else's text -- my point was that the delivery came across as being read from a teleprompter. Her biography section came off well, personal, and friendly and not sounding as scripted as the political stuff.

How could it even be remotely viewed as sexism (your quote "In a sense, this isn't sexism.") In what sense is analyzing a speech sexist? Really, have you guys on the right suddenly found magic in being P.C.?!

[WIP]

Someone else did write it. Matthew Scully, to be precise.

And she proved she can read it off the teleprompter! So I guess she's one up on Bush!

And what exactly was so great about the speech anyway? Reading over the transcript, it looks like typical Republican BS from start to finish: I think every other convention speech has started off with a reference to McCain's POW days in Vietnam. Here's my kids -- ain't I a wonderful mom, and pay no attention to that Alaska Independence Party thing, I'm so patriotic, I'm sending my son off to war to fight in this generations' quagmire. But, since she is supposed to be a feminist Republican, does that mean she'll be sending her daughters off to war also when they come of age?

What else! And she's a maverick reformer, except for taking all of those earmarks while mayor and supporting the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it. I hope the Dems have enough sense to go after her for all of the lies and distortions in this little speech, regardless of who wrote it!

Nothing here about alternative energy and conservation -- just oxymorons like 'clean coal' and drilling for the piddling little amount of oil on the northshore, and to hell with the polar bears!

"Victory in Iraq is finally in sight." Well you better hope it's not another mirage this time; the Iraq War has cost 551 billion so far, and the Pentagon estimates the final tally will be 1.2 trillion dollars. And those numbers don't include collateral costs such as the increasing medical costs of wounded and disabled veterans that will have to be payed for over the coming decades. And a McCain/Palin ticket will cut taxes. Since Dubya has already doubled the U.S. national debt during his term in office, it's not surprising that Palin's speech doesn't mention how they will balance the budget while cutting taxes and paying for wars and soaring health care costs.

Is there anything here besides one clever line about Obama's stage props, that would be different than any other generic Republican speech? ARe the Republicans really serious about winning over independent voters, especially Hillary supporters? I don't see anything in this speech that would appeal to anyone outside of the Republican base!

[CANADIEN]

Ummmm...OK...how many of these "community organizers" are elected by the general public?

If she had said something like "a mayor is a bit like a community organizer, except that mayors answer to the whole community", it would have been right, it would have been clever, and you would have a point.

What she did was to dismiss people who work and lead community organizations as people who have no responsibility. On this one, she didn't know what she was talking about.

[WIP]

And conservatives are not a monolith either.

And when I see people like Drea...

...complaining about the hypocrisy of conservatives supporting Palin while vilifying working moms, I am wondering what conservatives she is talking about.

There are Republicans who think mothers should be home with the children, but to ascribe that position to conservatives in general or to people supporting Palin in particular is just a straw-man. The Republican Party in the US, as with the Conservative Party in Canada, contains a wide range of view points ranging from very social conservative, to people who don't have socially conservative views but find themselves more closely aligned with the Republicans than the Democrats because of other issues.

-k

Moderates in the Conservative Party are going to end up like moderates in the Republican Party once they are no longer needed!

How much impact do groups like Republicans For Choice have in the Republican Party today? Judging from the increasingly reactionary party platforms that come out of each Republican convention, I'm guessing they rank down there somewhere with the Log Cabin Republicans.

[jefferiah]

If she had said something like "a mayor is a bit like a community organizer, except that mayors answer to the whole community", it would have been right, it would have been clever, and you would have a point.

What she did was to dismiss people who work and lead community organizations as people who have no responsibility. On this one, she didn't know what she was talking about.

Thats a pretty good point, Canadien!

[CANADIEN]

Life's rough, wear a helmet.

Obama thought making light of her background as a small-town mayor was a good idea; maybe a guy who lists "community organizer" as a major portion of his resume, maybe that's a risky stone to be casting.

If Obama wants to go to the American people and have the debate that "community organizer" is actually a tougher job than Palin made it sound, I am sure the Republicans would welcome having that debate during the course of the campaign.

-k

In bringing attention to the fact Palin's political experience is mostly at the municipal level and claiming that it doesn't prepare her fpr the issue that may face if she is elected and than McCain dies, the Democrats are not doing anything the Republican haven't been doing regarding Obama's experience as a State lawmaker and member of the US Senate.

If the Republican campaign wants to play the "before becoming a politician, Obama was just coordonating tutoring and mentoring programs for youth at trisk, job training programs, and a successfull voter registration drive" card, they better watch whose pre-political life they stack it again. Because while McCain's war experience is very impressive, Palin's pre-politics resume is a bit thin.

[CANADIEN]

Many people are under the impression that Palin was brought on the ticket to appeal to independent women and Clinton followers.

Independent women maybe. Clinton followers? Palin's positions are on many point the opposite of Clinton's.

I think the reasons she's on the ticket are:

- she's new;

- she has a bit of a a "ordinary jane" air to her

- she appeals to the social conservative/evangelical Christian base of the Republican party, which was so lukewarm towards the McCain campaign that the possibility they'd just stay home on Eeelection Day was a bigger threat than indepedant flocking to Obama

[WIP]

If she had said something like "a mayor is a bit like a community organizer, except that mayors answer to the whole community", it would have been right, it would have been clever, and you would have a point.

What she did was to dismiss people who work and lead community organizations as people who have no responsibility. On this one, she didn't know what she was talking about.

I think Barack Obama proved his organization ability when he put together a team and a strategy to outmaneuver the Clinton stranglehold on the Democratic Party. Karl Rove and other Republican hatchetmen were so sure of a Hillary coronation, that they started a smear campaign against her before the first primary had taken place. When the Hillary Campaign started complaining about caucuses, it was a tip off that they were getting beat on the ground by the grassroots organization that Obama had put together in a relatively short time, considering that the Clintons had been planning years for this election.

To me, that says more about executive ability than someone who has been running a state for the last 18 months that has a population not much larger than the city of Hamilton!

[Stephen Best]

If you're condemning Sarah Palin's decision to continue working after having a special needs child, you're also condemning my cousin, and literal millions of working mothers who have special needs children.

-k

Sarah Palin is being questioned not for continuing to work, but about taking on what is perhaps one of the most demanding jobs in the world, a job that could make her the President of the United States and put the fate of hundreds of millions of people in her hands. Are you suggesting that millions of working mothers with special needs children are not constrained in any way by their circumstances, by the needs of their children? Are you saying the needs of their children never cause them to make compromises in the vocations they pursue or would like to pursue? Are you saying that a special needs child has no impact on a mother's or father's life? Are you saying that a parent who is engaged in a job that demands their full attention and most of their time can give their special needs child all the care they need?

It seems that what you're saying is that having a special needs child would have no impact on Sarah Palin's ability to do one of the most demanding jobs in the world, and doing one of the most demanding jobs in the world will have no impact on Sarah Palin's ability to give her special needs child the care he needs. In other words, having to care for a special needs child has no affect on parents' lives. Is that your assertion?

[Liam]

Sarah Palin is being questioned not for continuing to work, but about taking on what is perhaps one of the most demanding jobs in the world, a job that could make her the President of the United States and put the fate of hundreds of millions of people in her hands. Are you suggesting that millions of working mothers with special needs children are not constrained in any way by their circumstances, by the needs of their children? Are you saying the needs of their children never cause them to make compromises in the vocations they pursue or would like to pursue? Are you saying that a special needs child has no impact on a mother's or father's life? Are you saying that a parent who is engaged in a job that demands their full attention and most of their time can give their special needs child all the care they need?

It seems that what you're saying is that having a special needs child would have no impact on Sarah Palin's ability to do one of the most demanding jobs in the world, and doing one of the most demanding jobs in the world will have no impact on Sarah Palin's ability to give her special needs child the care he needs. In other words, having to care for a special needs child has no affect on parents' lives. Is that your assertion?

Please. I understand your point, but your line of arguing is pointless for two reasons. First, you're never going to convince someone who has already locked his mind and most of the people on here who think Sarah Palin can have it all have their minds locked. Second, and more important, you have no idea (none of us do) what role Todd Palin will have should Sarah Palin become the VP of president. He may end up being the stay-at-home dad guy and that would free up Sarah to pursue her career. That's fine. Insisting that Palin is abandoning her kid is sheer speculation and isn't going to help you win the debate that she's not fit to be in the position she's in or that McCain treated his VP pick with reckless abandon.

[Liam]

And she proved she can read it off the teleprompter! So I guess she's one up on Bush!

And what exactly was so great about the speech anyway? Reading over the transcript, it looks like typical Republican BS from start to finish: I think every other convention speech has started off with a reference to McCain's POW days in Vietnam. Here's my kids -- ain't I a wonderful mom, and pay no attention to that Alaska Independence Party thing, I'm so patriotic, I'm sending my son off to war to fight in this generations' quagmire. But, since she is supposed to be a feminist Republican, does that mean she'll be sending her daughters off to war also when they come of age?

What else! And she's a maverick reformer, except for taking all of those earmarks while mayor and supporting the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it. I hope the Dems have enough sense to go after her for all of the lies and distortions in this little speech, regardless of who wrote it!

Nothing here about alternative energy and conservation -- just oxymorons like 'clean coal' and drilling for the piddling little amount of oil on the northshore, and to hell with the polar bears!

"Victory in Iraq is finally in sight." Well you better hope it's not another mirage this time; the Iraq War has cost 551 billion so far, and the Pentagon estimates the final tally will be 1.2 trillion dollars. And those numbers don't include collateral costs such as the increasing medical costs of wounded and disabled veterans that will have to be payed for over the coming decades. And a McCain/Palin ticket will cut taxes. Since Dubya has already doubled the U.S. national debt during his term in office, it's not surprising that Palin's speech doesn't mention how they will balance the budget while cutting taxes and paying for wars and soaring health care costs.

Is there anything here besides one clever line about Obama's stage props, that would be different than any other generic Republican speech? ARe the Republicans really serious about winning over independent voters, especially Hillary supporters? I don't see anything in this speech that would appeal to anyone outside of the Republican base!

Pat Buchanan is as partisan a guy as they come and he liked the speech but agreed that most of it was just GOP boilerplate.

Still, I think Palin did what she needed to do which was to energize the people who weren't going to vote for Obama anyhow. There was no way the crowd in the arena was going to let her fail. The question now is how it played outside the arena. Obama's and Biden's speeches were designed to get outside the room more. As Peggy Noonan said, "Obama spoke to America."

I also don't think the speech was intended to do anything but reignite the culture wars, which was the GOP's aim for Palin. They can't run on economic success or for managing the budget, so it's their last play open to them. They had Palin play the victim, let her be a model for the pro-lifers, let her be the martyr of an anti-American media and coastal snobs. I don't think there was a single thing any Hillary supporter could hear in that speech which would make them find a home in the GOP this year, but I think the GOP realized by around 5pm last Friday that Palin wouldn't be able to close that deal.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Liam

[Stephen Best]

Please. I understand your point, but your line of arguing is pointless for two reasons. First, you're never going to convince someone who has already locked his mind and most of the people on here who think Sarah Palin can have it all have their minds locked. Second, and more important, you have no idea (none of us do) what role Todd Palin will have should Sarah Palin become the VP of president. He may end up being the stay-at-home dad guy and that would free up Sarah to pursue her career. That's fine. Insisting that Palin is abandoning her kid is sheer speculation and isn't going to help you win the debate that she's not fit to be in the position she's in or that McCain treated his VP pick with reckless abandon.

Truer words were n'er spoken. And just as true is the fact that millions of voters who are not true believers of either camp will have to make a decision in the voting booth about Sarah Palin's and John McCain's decisions.

Have we heard from Todd Palin yet about what his specific role in helping Trig and Bristol will be? Is he going to be stay-at-home dad?

[bush_cheney2004]

..What she did was to dismiss people who work and lead community organizations as people who have no responsibility. On this one, she didn't know what she was talking about.

OK....then logically, Obama's contention that small town or even larger city mayors and managers (elected) don't have much in the way of experience or responsibility insults many thousands of people as well. It's all good, and refreshing to see a direct assault on the enemy camp.

Joe Biden is much smarter about it, acknowledging today that it was an effective political speech that achieved its designed purpose.

Edited September 4, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Liam]

OK....then logically, Obama's contention that small town or even larger city mayors and managers (elected) don't have much in the way of experience or responsibility insults many thousands of people as well.

When did Obama say this? Link?

The only criticism of Palin that came from the Obama camp (and not from Obama himself) was when a staffer released a statement last Friday critical of McCain's choice saying that as the mayor of a town of 9000 she didn't have any foreign policy experience (which is a fact). The release was withdrawn right after it was issued. Obama, himself, has not said a thing about Palin that I'm aware of which should cast her job as a town mayor as insulting. To my knowledge, he neversaid anything about mayors not having responsibilities or gaining experience. If you have links to statements where he belittled the role of public servants like city mayors, I'd be interested to see them. Can you provide those links?

Edited September 4, 2008 by Liam