McCain picks woman for VP slot

[bush_cheney2004]

And here's the other conservative tactic from mindless conservative drones: just pile on with despicable potshots, smears, and character assassination rather than addressing any points or responding to questions.

Methinks you protest too much after being exposed as every bit a drone for controlling reproductive choice(s).

[CANADIEN]

Is that the best you can come up with? Who said anything about controlling birth control, you fool! And in typical conservative fashion, you don't deal directly with the issue of women over 40 having babies because they are opposed to abortion and birth control -- instead, your fascist ideology demands that no one ask the question! Well, other people outside of the conservative echo chamber that you live in are asking, so stay inside your fortress of FoxNews, Rush Limbaugh, FreeRepublic, the Pajamas Media and the Townhall bloggers if you can't deal with it!

The question should be: is that the best YOU can come with?

Governor Palin's decision to become pregnant and to give birth to her child is no more and no less your business than another's woman decision to have an abortion is the business of any strangers. You cannot have it both ways.

And in case you are tempted to serve that line on me... I consider Foxnews and Rush Limbaughs and al to be demagogic fools.

[WIP]

Nor would I. But if things got to the point where I didn't think it actually mattered which party was in power, I wouldn't hesitate to vote for the female candidate just because I think there is an intrinsic value in breaking the "glass ceiling". Obama just has to make sure never gives anyone reason to doubt whether he's really any different from his opponents.

That bird won't fly very far in the fall as this woman's past statements and voting record show that she is in line with the most extreme wing of the social conservative movement! Did you notice that when she mentioned Hillary in her acceptance speech, the crowd started booing and making catcalls?

It seems obvious to me that she was brought in to shore up McCain's weak standing among the religious right segment of the Republican base. They may have voted Republican anyway, but the Republican Party depends on these people to man the phones, put up the campaign signs and drive people to the polls. They could not afford a dispirited, lacklustre performance from the base if they are going to win the election.

But, as more information comes out about her absolute stand against abortion, pro gun (that's a winning issue for men, not women), opposition to sex discrimination laws etc., I think she will strengthen McCain's lead among men, at the expense of women voters. She is certainly not going to draw many of those so-called disaffected Hillary voters when they learn more about her background and where she stands on the issues!

[Guest American Woman]

Governor Palin's decision to become pregnant and to give birth to her child is no more and no less your business than another's woman decision to have an abortion is the business of any strangers. You cannot have it both ways.

Are you pro-choice and against Palin's stand on the abortion issue? Because I agree with you, but Palin thinks it's her business to tell other women that they can't have an abortion.

[WIP]

Methinks you protest too much after being exposed as every bit a drone for controlling reproductive choice(s).

Speaking of people who shout slogans instead of presenting supporting evidence for their positions!

[bush_cheney2004]

Speaking of people who shout slogans instead of presenting supporting evidence for their positions!

Sorry...nobody forced you to step in it like that. Your position vis-a-vis 40+ year old women having pregnancies/babies is way out there, with zero evidence to infringe regardless of birth defect risks. Your's is the kind of position that was very popular with eugenics proponents.

[Guest American Woman]

That bird won't fly very far in the fall as this woman's past statements and voting record show that she is in line with the most extreme wing of the social conservative movement! Did you notice that when she mentioned Hillary in her acceptance speech, the crowd started booing and making catcalls?

I found the booing rather interesting and it confirmed in my mind that Palin isn't going to be picking up many Hillary supporters.

But, as more information comes out about her absolute stand against abortion, pro gun (that's a winning issue for men, not women), opposition to sex discrimination laws etc., I think she will strengthen McCain's lead among men, at the expense of women voters. She is certainly not going to draw many of those so-called disaffected Hillary voters when they learn more about her background and where she stands on the issues!

I agree with you, and that's been my take on it. I don't see how Palin is going to get Hillary's voters when Hillary's political views are so different from hers. In fact, I think McCain may have lost some of the votes he would have had from Hillary supporters because of his choice of Palin for VP. I know I want him to lose now even more than I did before.

[kimmy]

I know several very active Obama supporters -- one I spoke to last night just after she got back from the DNC in Denver. Most would have respected the selection of Tom Ridge or Condi Rice.

You can't be serious. Both are hopelessly tainted by long association with Dubya's regime.

Mitt Romney would have earned some jokes, but I think people would have understood the pick.

People probably would have understood the pick, but does that matter?

How does nominating a VP who spent months explaining to people why John McCain is the wrong man for the job help to convince people that John McCain is the right man for the job?

And for all the talk about Palin's experience, Romney's political resume is even shorter than Palin's.

Actually, Ridge scared the bejesus out of the Dems I know.

Because what better way of putting the Bush regime behind the party than to make the original Mr Homeland Security the VP nominee.

Rice or Ridge might have better qualifications to be Vice President than Palin does, but does that make them smart choices?

I suggest that either of them would have been the exact opposit of a smart choice at this particular time. Nominating figures so closely tied to the Bush regime would have been complete and utter political suicide.

I think it is likely that some of these people will want to run for President in the future, which would be difficult to do with a crushing defeat as VP candidate on their resume.

Any of those guys (and woman) would make everyone think McCain picked someone who can be trusted in his or her own way. Palin, on the other hand, is viewed with shock. Not shock and awe, just complete shock, like this has to be a joke, right?

As I said, I work among very Republican types (admittedly, Wall Streeters and not social conservative) and the overwhelming response is "what was he thinking?" They understand his need to get evangelicals on board, but not one person I've spoken to about this thinks Palin is even remotely qualified to step in to the presidency should she need to. I'd say the overall reaction among the McCain supporters I know is total dismay.

And this is the part I find most puzzling. I can certainly understand people thinking there were better choices, but I'm at a loss as to whypeople have come to the conclusion that Palin is a joke of some kind.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

....And this is the part I find most puzzling. I can certainly understand people thinking there were better choices, but I'm at a loss as to whypeople have come to the conclusion that Palin is a joke of some kind.

If it's a joke, then it is not nearly as funny as nominating Senator Obama for prez.

[WIP]

The question should be: is that the best YOU can come with?

Governor Palin's decision to become pregnant and to give birth to her child is no more and no less your business than another's woman decision to have an abortion is the business of any strangers.

Oh! And why not? Seems like liberals are so afraid of discussing abortion outside of the confines of it always being a "private choice" that they are conceding the whole subject of morality and ethics to the conservatives. If you ever wonder why the religious right conservatives walk around with the high-minded attitude that they are the only ones concerned with family values, this is a big part of the reason why.

Could it be that you are attacking me because I don't buy the liberal ideology either, that abortion is a private matter and the state or any outsider for that matter is not allowed to ever make moral judgements on the issue? Because of the fear of The kneejerk pro choice side is so incapable of examining the new Conservative bill offered up to protect a fetus from harm caused by a third party, that they have no choice to dismiss it out of fear that it might threaten access to abortion.

You cannot have it both ways.

And in case you are tempted to serve that line on me... I consider Foxnews and Rush Limbaughs and al to be demagogic fools.

I don't give a rats ass what ideology you come with! There are lots of mindless liberals also who just follow the party line and never bother to weigh the issues themselves also!

[capricorn]

I found the booing rather interesting and it confirmed in my mind that Palin isn't going to be picking up many Hillary supporters.

I heard the speech and I thought they were booing Hillary, not Palin. She was addressing a Republican crowd so I fully expected they would boo at the mention of a high flyer from the other camp. I actually thought it was gracious that she remarked on Hillary's success in reaching so far toward breaking the glass ceiling.

[WIP]

Sorry...nobody forced you to step in it like that. Your position vis-a-vis 40+ year old women having pregnancies/babies is way out there, with zero evidence to infringe regardless of birth defect risks. Your's is the kind of position that was very popular with eugenics proponents.

If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that others had provided the charts with the statistical risks by age group. I never said it was an absolute cutoff date, but responsible people should consider that the older they are, the greater the risks of birth defects and complications during pregnancy. And now, we are discovering that older men have a greater likelihood of contributing to birth defects also. The links were already provided around page 11 and 12, go look them up!

But, my questioning of Sarah Palin's judgement still stands because she took these risks while carrying an absolute refusal of the abortion option. An average woman might have had an abortion if there was significant birth defects, or her life was at risk by the pregnancy -- but Sarah Palin doesn't have this option! If this late pregnancy threatened her life, she would have had to risk death rather than have an abortion! So what happens now if Vice President, or President Palin gets pregnant?

[Liam]

Palin's pregnancy is off limits. Her position on abortion is a valid point of discussion, but leave her personal decisions about her family off the table.

[capricorn]

And this is the part I find most puzzling. I can certainly understand people thinking there were better choices, but I'm at a loss as to whypeople have come to the conclusion that Palin is a joke of some kind.

-k

The perceived joke in those circles is that Palin is a Washington outsider that the establishment feels is too cocky, cute and genuine to fit in.

One observation about the experience factor. Obama has improved his qualifications and knowledge by the mere fact of his campaign since the day he declared his candidacy. When Palin was elected Governor, she basically learned on the job and was a very effective Governor. There's no doubt she's a quick study and self starter. I expect she can develop in the same manner and at the same rate that Obama did.

[kimmy]

Hint: he has to have a good looking woman on this right arm. He is simply a playboy and nothing more. He has never worked a day in his life,

You have him confused with Barack Obama.

he simply was good looking enough to bag rich women.

You have him confused with John Kerry.

As a young man, he was just a trophy boy -- good looking but no substance.

Yes, that whole Air Force thing is tailor-made for slackers and layabouts.

-k

Edited August 31, 2008 by kimmy

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman: I found the booing rather interesting and it confirmed in my mind that Palin isn't going to be picking up many Hillary supporters.

I heard the speech and I thought they were booing Hillary, not Palin. She was addressing a Republican crowd so I fully expected they would boo at the mention of a high flyer from the other camp. I actually thought it was gracious that she remarked on Hillary's success in reaching so far toward breaking the glass ceiling.

I found the booing interesting because I thought the republicans wanted to pick up the disgruntled Hillary voters, and booing her doesn't seem the best way to go about doing that. So yes, they were booing Hillary, but if Palin's comments are going to draw boos for Hillary, I don't think her nomination is going to pick up many Hillary voters.

Edited August 31, 2008 by American Woman

[Liam]

And this is the part I find most puzzling. I can certainly understand people thinking there were better choices, but I'm at a loss as to whypeople have come to the conclusion that Palin is a joke of some kind.

-k

All the points you make about Romney, Ridge and Rice are valid. I didn't say their nomination would be without certain perils, but people would understand their being selected to be VP because each one of them has demontrated a certain capacity and has an established record on either domestic issues (Ridge and Romney as state governors) or international affairs (Ridge as Homeland Security Chief and Rice as NSA Chief and Secretary of State). Any of the three would demonstrate a seriousness and a deliberatemess in McCain's selecting one of them. Sure, they'd be linked to Bush and Romney's primary campaign statements would haunt them in the general election, but people would understand that McCain made a tough call and picked someone he could bring before the people as a trusted hand and proven commodity. I didn't say any of them would win the race for McCain, just that the public could look at any of the three and say, "OK, I could see [Ridge, Romney or Rice] as the VP."

I did not say Palin was a joke. I never said anything negative about Palin personally. I said that the feeling I get from most of the people I've spoken to about this is that McCain's selection of her must be some kind of joke. She's not a joke, but McCain's decision that she of all possible candidates is the most qualified strikes a lot of people as somewhat of a joke.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Liam

[Guest American Woman]

The perceived joke in those circles is that Palin is a Washington outsider that the establishment feels is too cocky, cute and genuine to fit in.

People see her as a joke because of the big deal the McCain campaign made out of Obama's inexperience; then he goes and picks someone who makes Obama look down-right seasoned.

This is the kind of answer that makes me shake my head when I think in terms of her possibly being POTUS:

"Are you ready to be President Palin if necessary?"

"I am ... I am up to the task, of course, of focusing on the challenges that face America," [...] "And I am very pleased with the situation that I am in, when, when you consider the situation now that Alaska will be in.

"And that is Alaska, and Alaskans will be allowed to contribute more to our great country and they'll be allowed to do that because I -- if we're elected -- will be in a position of opening the eyes of the country to what it is that Alaska is all about and what Alaska has to offer. So, I am happy to and very honored to be asked to do this. I know it's going to be great for Alaska."

Even her mother-in-law wonders what she has to offer [emphasis mine]:

Palin's mother-in-law, Faye Palin, told a New York Daily News reporter that she didn't agree with Sarah on everything and hadn't yet decided how she would vote. She added: "I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative. Well, she's a better speaker than McCain," Faye Palin said with a laugh.

link

[bush_cheney2004]

If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that others had provided the charts with the statistical risks by age group. I never said it was an absolute cutoff date, but responsible people should consider that the older they are, the greater the risks of birth defects and complications during pregnancy. And now, we are discovering that older men have a greater likelihood of contributing to birth defects also. The links were already provided around page 11 and 12, go look them up!

You are missing the larger point, and cannot defend your position with statistics, regardless of birth defect occurrence. Again, you are stepping over the line of who shall/shall not be born.

But, my questioning of Sarah Palin's judgement still stands because she took these risks while carrying an absolute refusal of the abortion option. An average woman might have had an abortion if there was significant birth defects, or her life was at risk by the pregnancy -- but Sarah Palin doesn't have this option! If this late pregnancy threatened her life, she would have had to risk death rather than have an abortion! So what happens now if Vice President, or President Palin gets pregnant?

I suspect she will do everything to protect the life of her unborn child, including the risk of death. This is something that perhaps you cannot/will not ever understand.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I did not say Palin was a joke. I never said anything negative about Palin personally. I said that the feeling I get from most of the people I've spoken to about this is that McCain's selection of her must be some kind of joke. She's not a joke, but McCain's decision that she of all possible candidates is the most qualified strikes a lot of people as somewhat of a joke.

Gov Palin has already achieved the desired political effect, with more to come as her/his critics twist in the wind. It has nothing to do with the best qualified...hell...none of the candidates are the best qualified.

Those who attack Palin do so at great risk to their own political ends.

[CANADIEN]

But, my questioning of Sarah Palin's judgement still stands because she took these risks while carrying an absolute refusal of the abortion option. An average woman might have had an abortion if there was significant birth defects, or her life was at risk by the pregnancy -- but Sarah Palin doesn't have this option! If this late pregnancy threatened her life, she would have had to risk death rather than have an abortion! So what happens now if Vice President, or President Palin gets pregnant?

Looks to me like she made a choice. She chose to consider that human life begins at conception - her only position I agree with. I would find it difficult to question the judgement of a woman who opts for her own life instead of that of her child if a pregnancy threatens her life, but at the same time there is nothing wrong with the judgement of a woman willing to sacrifice herself for another human being.

Edited August 31, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Guest American Woman]

She chose to consider that human life begins at conception - her only position I agree with.

I noticed you didn't answer my question as to whether you're pro-choice and against Palin's stand on abortion. The above comment leads me to believe that you're not pro-choice, and you do agree with Palin's stand on abortion, which makes your earlier comment rather interesting (emphasis mine):

Governor Palin's decision to become pregnant and to give birth to her child is no more and no less your business than another's woman decision to have an abortion is the business of any strangers. You cannot have it both ways.

You cannot have it both ways either.

[Liam]

Gov Palin has already achieved the desired political effect, with more to come as her/his critics twist in the wind. It has nothing to do with the best qualified...hell...none of the candidates are the best qualified.

Those who attack Palin do so at great risk to their own political ends.

Time will tell whether or not her critics will twist in the wind. But time will also tell if the one twisting in the wind will be McCain. Your failure to even consider a negative outcome to this selection shows that anything you say is purely partisan spin and not to be taken seriously.

Palin may prove to be a decent campaigner and a quick study, and I would caution anyone from underestimating her. Frankly, expectations for her are so low that all she has to do from now to November is not slip in dog sh_t for GOP spinners to equate that with brilliance. But the lack of even a shred of skepticism or without even acknowledging the risks associated with selecting her (and that it could be McCain's undoing as much as it may be a boon to him) tells me you've abandoned rationality in favor of partisan bravado.

[jdobbin]

There are two ways that Democrats can approach Palin's nomination. The first is the emphasize McCain's age by repeating that Palin is just a heartbeat away from the presidency and keep asking her questions on things like trade, foreign policy and to find out if she knows the entire Republican playbook. She might be up to date but asking her these questions on national security and Iraq will shed some light on views that few know right now.

The next thing to emphasize is that a vote for McCain Palin is a vote to strike down Roe versus Wade. If people want safe, accessible and legal abortions, they probably should not vote for McCain Palin.

[Shady]

I was only with my son's father because he was so damn good looking, but once the shit hit and he had to work for a living -- well lets just say I was better off alone.

Well, let me just say congratulations. Those are some major accomplishments for feminism. And it says quite alot about the kind of person you are.

However, it makes it even more puzzling as to where you get your pseudo-superiority. (psst, we have ipods, mcdonalds and twinkies in Canada too).