Manitoba NDP Shopping Spree

[DrGreenthumb]

Neither have I.

because there is none, Tories have nothing of substance to complain about the NDP so they need to create these strawmen. Farmers are quite happy to avoid paying taxes when they have good crop years by buying assets and land but everytime a bad year comes they want the government to cover their losses. Most farmers I know, if you calculate the value of their land and equipment and other assets are worth in the millions of dollars, not exactly as poor as they make themselves out to be.

[blueblood]

because there is none, Tories have nothing of substance to complain about the NDP so they need to create these strawmen. Farmers are quite happy to avoid paying taxes when they have good crop years by buying assets and land but everytime a bad year comes they want the government to cover their losses. Most farmers I know, if you calculate the value of their land and equipment and other assets are worth in the millions of dollars, not exactly as poor as they make themselves out to be.

I don't want government to cover my losses, I want the gov't to create a business friendly environment which has happened recently.

How the hell am I avoiding paying taxes when we have the sales taxes on machinery, property taxes on land, and even more sales tax on inputs, and then whatever is left as income is taxed. That is the weakest argument i've seen from you. Not only that, me spending money helps out the wage earners at the implement dealership.

I suggest enrolling at the U of M and taking some economics and commerce courses.

[DrGreenthumb]

I don't want government to cover my losses, I want the gov't to create a business friendly environment which has happened recently.

How the hell am I avoiding paying taxes when we have the sales taxes on machinery, property taxes on land, and even more sales tax on inputs, and then whatever is left as income is taxed. That is the weakest argument i've seen from you. Not only that, me spending money helps out the wage earners at the implement dealership.

I suggest enrolling at the U of M and taking some economics and commerce courses.

Give me a break, some might fall for that line of crap but I don't, I live in rural manitoba and have relatives who are farmers. They spend the money they earn in good years on expensive machinery and more land so that they don't have to declare a large income for the year and pay income tax on it. Try being honest for a change, I know that's near impossible for a Tory but just give it a whirl.

Are you going to try to tell me that most farmers with assets calculated are not worth more than a million dollars? Know any wage earners with that kind of net worth? Cry me a river. Look at who the wealthiest members of your community are, it is all the business and farm owners who have the most money. I barely ever see a farmer around here whose 1/2 ton is more than 2 years old, or who doesn't buy a new 100, 000 dollar combine every few years.

Edited September 17, 2008 by DrGreenthumb

[blueblood]

Give me a break, some might fall for that line of crap but I don't, I live in rural manitoba and have relatives who are farmers. They spend the money they earn in good years on expensive machinery and more land so that they don't have to declare a large income for the year and pay income tax on it. Try being honest for a change, I know that's near impossible for a Tory but just give it a whirl.

Are you going to try to tell me that most farmers with assets calculated are not worth more than a million dollars? Know any wage earners with that kind of net worth? Cry me a river. Look at who the wealthiest members of your community are, it is all the business and farm owners who have the most money. I barely ever see a farmer around here whose 1/2 ton is more than 2 years old, or who doesn't buy a new 100, 000 dollar combine every few years.

Yes they don't pay as much income tax as you'd like them to, they buy that expensive stuff because what else are they going to spend their money on. They aren't evading taxes, they pay huge sales taxes which aren't income taxes but taxes nonetheless. Would you rather they run junk, not stimulate the economy, and send half of what they make to the government, just because they do well? Why bother then? The sales tax on machinery and property tax on land is more than the average wage earner's income tax deductions.

Some of the most wealthy people in my community are oilfield workers who happen to be wage earners. You seem to be forgetting that those assets are either actively being taxed or had the sales tax paid. By the way those new combines are 400,000 dollars. Why shouldn't the farmer be getting that kind of money, he's smart enough and is working hard enough to go get it. There is nothing stopping wage earners from starting up businesses and making the big bucks too. wage earners are wage earners because they don't want to take risks and go the extra mile.

[DrGreenthumb]

Yes they don't pay as much income tax as you'd like them to, they buy that expensive stuff because what else are they going to spend their money on. They aren't evading taxes, they pay huge sales taxes which aren't income taxes but taxes nonetheless. Would you rather they run junk, not stimulate the economy, and send half of what they make to the government, just because they do well? Why bother then? The sales tax on machinery and property tax on land is more than the average wage earner's income tax deductions.

Some of the most wealthy people in my community are oilfield workers who happen to be wage earners. You seem to be forgetting that those assets are either actively being taxed or had the sales tax paid. By the way those new combines are 400,000 dollars. Why shouldn't the farmer be getting that kind of money, he's smart enough and is working hard enough to go get it. There is nothing stopping wage earners from starting up businesses and making the big bucks too. wage earners are wage earners because they don't want to take risks and go the extra mile.

I used to be only a wage earner , now I have my own business as well. I make a lot more from my business than from working but I still work at my other job because I have the time and it puts an extra 2 grand a month in my bank account. I know about entrepreneurship and about being a wage earner, both have their advantages , but stop trying to paint farmers as poor when they have that kind of mmoney to throw around, it is bull$hit. I have never met a farmer who didn't inherit the farm from past generations , so don't try to present the false argument the farmers are further because they have worked their way up from nothing like the average wage earner starts off with. Today's farmers are "established wealth". You can try and convince others differently but I live in a farming community I know better.

[blueblood]

I used to be only a wage earner , now I have my own business as well. I make a lot more from my business than from working but I still work at my other job because I have the time and it puts an extra 2 grand a month in my bank account. I know about entrepreneurship and about being a wage earner, both have their advantages , but stop trying to paint farmers as poor when they have that kind of mmoney to throw around, it is bull$hit. I have never met a farmer who didn't inherit the farm from past generations , so don't try to present the false argument the farmers are further because they have worked their way up from nothing like the average wage earner starts off with. Today's farmers are "established wealth". You can try and convince others differently but I live in a farming community I know better.

You are also well aware of the razor thin profit margins and operating loans farmers have to deal with. There are some farmers that are poor, there is no denying that, there are some that have done well for themselves, myself included. You also have to remember when the farmer inherits the farm, he has to either buy it out or bankroll his parents retirement which can be very expensive. Then there are some immigrants who come over and others who start one up from scratch. There are some who are good managers, and some who are bad managers.

I don't see why you have a problem with established wealth, they volunteer, spend money, and pay taxes like everyone else. Why do you want to punish people for getting ahead? What if your business took off and you became a millionaire, would that make you a bad person and should you be gouged?

[DrGreenthumb]

You are also well aware of the razor thin profit margins and operating loans farmers have to deal with. There are some farmers that are poor, there is no denying that, there are some that have done well for themselves, myself included. You also have to remember when the farmer inherits the farm, he has to either buy it out or bankroll his parents retirement which can be very expensive. Then there are some immigrants who come over and others who start one up from scratch. There are some who are good managers, and some who are bad managers.

I don't see why you have a problem with established wealth, they volunteer, spend money, and pay taxes like everyone else. Why do you want to punish people for getting ahead? What if your business took off and you became a millionaire, would that make you a bad person and should you be gouged?

I have no problem with established wealth I have a problem with wealthy whiners. Just because I am quite well off now does not mean that I will change my politics to make it harder for others to also improve their lot in life. Other wealthy people paid taxes so that I would have the opportunities to become wealthy. Now that I have a lot I don't mind helping others join the middle class as well. The more the middle class grows the better for Canada's average standard of living and better for the economy at large. The liberals are much better at managing the economy than the conservatives who run it into the ground every time they are in power. They help the already rich get much richer while the size of the middle class decreases, and ammount of working poor and unemployed poor grows by leaps and bounds.

[blueblood]

I have no problem with established wealth I have a problem with wealthy whiners. Just because I am quite well off now does not mean that I will change my politics to make it harder for others to also improve their lot in life. Other wealthy people paid taxes so that I would have the opportunities to become wealthy. Now that I have a lot I don't mind helping others join the middle class as well. The more the middle class grows the better for Canada's average standard of living and better for the economy at large. The liberals are much better at managing the economy than the conservatives who run it into the ground every time they are in power. They help the already rich get much richer while the size of the middle class decreases, and ammount of working poor and unemployed poor grows by leaps and bounds.

I will give you that, you support a type of gov't who wants higher taxes and you don't mind paying high taxes. I'll respect that postition.

My position is on the contrary to yours but I believe that in the end both sides want the same thing.