Harper's Olympic absence

[White Doors]

It doesn't matter why he wasn't there. This was the biggest show on earth that day. Bush was there. Putin was there. This was THE BIG SHOW. Harper made a BIG mistake.

So I guess he isn't Bush's lapdog then?

[HisSelf]

So I guess he isn't Bush's lapdog then?

You're reaching...

[Argus]

Next, will be to boycott Canadian companies trading with China?

Want to give me a list?

[Argus]

It doesn't matter why he wasn't there. This was the biggest show on earth that day. Bush was there. Putin was there. This was THE BIG SHOW. Harper made a BIG mistake.

The British PM skipped the show, as I understand it, as did the German Chancellor.

Attendance, despite what you lefties might think, was not mandatory.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman: It seems as if everyone in this thread is speculating as to why Harper didn't go. Isn't it kind of strange that no one knows? Why hasn't it been addressed? Seems to me if it were in protest, he would be making that known. What good is a protest is no one knows you are protesting? Personally, I find it odd that he didn't go and I'm glad that Bush did. This is a major event-- the first time the Olympics are being held in China-- and it's a huge deal to the Chinese. For that reason, I don't think it's comparable to other missed games.

It doesn't matter why he wasn't there. This was the biggest show on earth that day. Bush was there. Putin was there. This was THE BIG SHOW. Harper made a BIG mistake.

I agree. I think he showed really poor judgment by not attending; I'm surprised he wouldn't realize that it would be a bad call not to attend.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=HisSelf:

It doesn't matter why he wasn't there. This was the biggest show on earth that day. Bush was there. Putin was there. This was THE BIG SHOW. Harper made a BIG mistake.

So I guess he isn't Bush's lapdog then?

What does Bush have to do with the Olympics in China?-- Why would Bush care if Harper attended or not?

[guyser]

The British PM skipped the show, as I understand it, as did the German Chancellor.

Attendance, despite what you lefties might think, was not mandatory.

Neither is thinking and breathing,despite what you righties might think, but I would expect them to do so.

I expected Harper would go. That he didnt means I dont lose any sleep, but will wait and see if it creates any problems for business flow or some action along those lines.

Should big business run into trouble over this, delayed shipments, delayed customs clearance etc, Harper will have no option but to listen. If nothing else, he knows who his masters are.

[capricorn]

The British PM skipped the show, as I understand it, as did the German Chancellor.

Attendance, despite what you lefties might think, was not mandatory.

And if the Liberals were in power and their party leader skipped the Olympics well that would be OK, that it's no big deal. What we're seeing is just one more handy opportunity to bash Harper. Such is partisan politics.

As a matter of fact, I would much prefer Harper devote his thoughts and energy on the grave situation that is going on in Russia and the Balkans. While much of the world seems to be preoccupied with Beijing at the moment, a very serious problem is developing. Trade matters are being handled by Emerson and his delegation on site in China. I believe this will prove to have been the best outcome we could have hoped for under the circumstances.

[HisSelf]

The world's power blocs are reforming. Enough said.

[Guest American Woman]

And if the Liberals were in power and their party leader skipped the Olympics well that would be OK, that it's no big deal. What we're seeing is just one more handy opportunity to bash Harper. Such is partisan politics.

I'm not a fan of Bush by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't question that he did the right thing by attending the Olympics. By the same token, I think Harper made a big mistake by not attending. Furthermore, saying we think he made a big mistake is hardly "bashing" Harper. Seems to me you're the one making this partisan.

[capricorn]

What does Bush have to do with the Olympics in China?-- Why would Bush care if Harper attended or not?

In the minds of many, Harper rides Dubya's coattails, hence they are surprised Harper did not attend to be right there beside Bush in Beijing to showcase his supposed unqualified support for your President. At the same time these people feel compelled to congratulate Bush for attending the games. It's one instance where the anti-Harper crowd has put their anti-Americanism aside in order to intensify the slam against Harper.

[capricorn]

Seems to me you're the one making this partisan.

This is a political forum and partisanship is expected. Some think Harper made a mistake, some don't. So be it.

[Guest American Woman]

This is a political forum and partisanship is expected. Some think Harper made a mistake, some don't. So be it.

Expected by some, evidently. But yeah, as you said, so be it. Yet you're claiming those who think Harper made a mistake are simply "Harper bashing." By the same token, those who don't think he made a mistake must be simply 'kissing Harper's ass.' Such is the depth of a discussion when "partisanship is expected." Hopefully, though, we can delve a little deeper than that.

In the minds of many, Harper rides Dubya's coattails, hence they are surprised Harper did not attend to be right there beside Bush in Beijing to showcase his supposed unqualified support for your President. At the same time these people feel compelled to congratulate Bush for attending the games. It's one instance where the anti-Harper crowd has put their anti-Americanism aside in order to intensify the slam against Harper.

I still don't get how going to Beijing would show support for Bush. Seems to me it would be showing support for China. Bush certainly doesn't need support in his decision to attend the Games.

But again with the "slam against Harper" claim. Heaven forbid that anyone be credited with thinking outside the partisan box, eh?

[capricorn]

I still don't get how going to Beijing would show support for Bush.

Don't take this as a put down AM but I think you'd have to be Canadian to get it. It's all part and parcel of Bush/America bashing which is sometimes called a favored Canadian pass time.

But again with the "slam against Harper" claim. Heaven forbid that anyone be credited with thinking outside the partisan box, eh?

Having been caught in it myself on occasion, I see it more as a hamster wheel than a box.

[jdobbin]

Want to give me a list?

You can start with wheat and keep moving through the industrial sector.

[blueblood]

You can start with wheat and keep moving through the industrial sector.

According to the CWB, China isn't even in the top three for wheat. The American's buy more than the Chinese do.

Chretien snubbed the U.S. games in Salt Lake, according to your logic, the U.S. our #1 trading partner should be miffed and considering trade action. That hasn't happened, and I don't think it will, China likes our goodies too much. I think China has too much invested in that big oil pipeline going to BC, which the Americans ARE upset about.

[capricorn]

China likes our goodies too much.

Here's one goodie that is sure to please China.

The Canadian government has announced it's now committed more than $31 million in disaster aid for earthquake victims in China.

International Cooperation Minister Bev Oda says Canada has matched nearly $30 million in private donations to help victims of China's May earthquake, on top of the $1 million it initially committed to the quake victims.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

China may be miffed at Harper's Beijing no show but they'll gladly accept this assistance.

[jdobbin]

According to the CWB, China isn't even in the top three for wheat. The American's buy more than the Chinese do.

But they still buy wheat. A true conservative who believes in isolating China should boycott Canadian wheat.

Chretien snubbed the U.S. games in Salt Lake, according to your logic, the U.S. our #1 trading partner should be miffed and considering trade action. That hasn't happened, and I don't think it will, China likes our goodies too much. I think China has too much invested in that big oil pipeline going to BC, which the Americans ARE upset about.

Chretien met many times with the U.S. leaders on U.S. territory. At the time of the Olympics, he was overseas conducting business for the government. He has to call Gretzky to congratulate him on Canada's gold when he arrived back in Canada.

Harper has never met with Chinese leaders in China and has had a hostile relationship with the country since 2006. Chretien had a hot and cold relationship with the U.S. but always found time to meet or talk to the U.S. leaders.

China has plenty of ways to show their displeasure with Canada. This idea that we have them over a barrel ignores the bilateral relationship.

[blueblood]

But they still buy wheat. A true conservative who believes in isolating China should boycott Canadian wheat.

Chretien met many times with the U.S. leaders on U.S. territory. At the time of the Olympics, he was overseas conducting business for the government. He has to call Gretzky to congratulate him on Canada's gold when he arrived back in Canada.

Harper has never met with Chinese leaders in China and has had a hostile relationship with the country since 2006. Chretien had a hot and cold relationship with the U.S. but always found time to meet or talk to the U.S. leaders.

China has plenty of ways to show their displeasure with Canada. This idea that we have them over a barrel ignores the bilateral relationship.

I don't believe in isolating China, I'm saying Harper can do what he wants, so can the Chinese. Harper I think has met with Chinese leaders, not in China though.

Your right it is a bilateral relationship, Harper can call out the Chinese on human rights and snub them, and the Chinese can call Harper an arrogant ass and snub our Olympics in return. But both countries benefit greatly from each other, Canada likes it's cheap goods and China likes our primary resources, which is why I think nothing trade related will happen.

Another example is Trudeau with the Americans in the 70's, how badly did the Americans punish us for having a good relationship with Fidel Castro?

[Argus]

Neither is thinking and breathing,despite what you righties might think, but I would expect them to do so.

I expected Harper would go. That he didnt means I dont lose any sleep, but will wait and see if it creates any problems for business flow or some action along those lines.

Should big business run into trouble over this, delayed shipments, delayed customs clearance etc, Harper will have no option but to listen. If nothing else, he knows who his masters are.

And who exactly would that be? We certainly knew who the Liberals' masters were. All those corporations which kept Liberal coffers stuffed with cash, buying up bills and influence and favorable contracts. Now that the Liberals can't (legally) get money from the rich they're near bankruptcy. Nobody else wants to give them any money! I guess we now know who the Liberal constituency is!

If the Chinese start playing games with our exports we'll start playing games with theirs. Pile it up dockside until each and every item is inspected out of quite legitimate health concerns.

[jdobbin]

I don't believe in isolating China, I'm saying Harper can do what he wants, so can the Chinese. Harper I think has met with Chinese leaders, not in China though.

The Chinese are starting to make Harper's stand an issue. Things can get a lot cooler if the Chinese want to make a point.

Your right it is a bilateral relationship, Harper can call out the Chinese on human rights and snub them, and the Chinese can call Harper an arrogant ass and snub our Olympics in return. But both countries benefit greatly from each other, Canada likes it's cheap goods and China likes our primary resources, which is why I think nothing trade related will happen.

It is already hurting Canada in terms of not having most favoured nation status with the Chinese.

Another example is Trudeau with the Americans in the 70's, how badly did the Americans punish us for having a good relationship with Fidel Castro?

The problem is that the U.S. would have had to punish the entire world since the U.S. is the only nation to have an embargo on Cuba.

[guyser]

And who exactly would that be?

Businessmen, corporations.

If the Chinese start playing games with our exports we'll start playing games with theirs. Pile it up dockside until each and every item is inspected out of quite legitimate health concerns.

Tit for tat. Great idea.

[capricorn]

The Chinese are starting to make Harper's stand an issue. Things can get a lot cooler if the Chinese want to make a point.

Harper's stand has been an issue with China since he took office.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says his government will not abandon "important Canadian values" by toning down criticisms of China's human rights record to improve trade relations with Beijing.

Harper made the comments to reporters on Wednesday after being apparently snubbed by Chinese President Hu Jintao.

Harper, who was on his plane en route to the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation conference in Vietnam, was supposed to have a private meeting with Hu. But after some initial talks between the two countries, the Chinese leader declined to meet with Harper.

Harper said he couldn't explain the snub, but hinted that the Chinese were trying to put conditions on what subjects could be discussed during the meeting, the Canadian Press reported.

"I think Canadians want us to promote our trade relations worldwide, and we do that, but I don't think Canadians want us to sell out important Canadian values," Harper said.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/11/15/harper-snub.html

He has been direct with the Chinese government regarding their country's poor human rights record and he has been consistent from the start. Much has been said about the pitfalls of ruffling China's ruffles by not attending the Olympics. Yet, his no show (intentional or not) is consistent with the position he has taken. Here is a very interesting article about the divergent views inside China about our PM's absence in Beijing. I won't quote it as it needs to be entirely read to get its gist.

http://www.embassymag.ca/html/index.php?di...olymic_absence/

It looks like they are just as divided over this question as Canadians seem to be. The article also speaks about the Chinese cultural viewpoint when parties are at odds.

[jdobbin]

Harper's stand has been an issue with China since he took office.

His issue with the Chinese government is now regarded as an affront to the Chinese people.

[capricorn]

His issue with the Chinese government is now regarded as an affront to the Chinese people.

That's what happens when you stand up for human rights, even the rights of the Chinese people.