Man Beheaded on Greyhound Bus

[Visionseeker]

That is false.

Simply don't let them in the country. Problem solved.

What then, do you propose we do with you?

Now Xul will arrive and also become Canada's problem (althrough I'm sure he wont kill anyone). He is well aware that there are no jobs for him (or us) here in Canada, so why does he insist on coming with his wife and kids?

Maybe because Xul is a thoughtful, skilled person whose penchant for enquiry will greatly compliment the Canadian fabric? His insistence is a mark of entrepreneurialism that I frankly welcome.

Enjoy your free lunch on my tab. I'm seriously tired of paying for you guys to come to Canada when you simply are not needed. Your kids will use our school and you our services and you have never contributed and probably will never do so.

And your valued contribution to this country would be...?

People are offended? Oh but Xul's one of us.. a Canadian on the forum so I guess I should be able to talk to him like anyone else from Canada..

Xul is a human being entitled to basic respect and decency. An entitlement I must take great pains to offer you.

Or is he.. somehow.. 'special' where I cannot say anything to the almight Canadian immigrant that stats show simply do not net contribute regardless of the class they arrived under.

Go ahead and say it. Hell, argue that the sun revolves around the earth for all I care. Either way, you reveal your ignorance.

This is a new year and era of open discussion about immigration in Canada and the Liberal multicultural days of keeping our mouth shut have died after Dion got elected.

Indeed. We can all look forward to the brown shirts coming out of the closet to set us all straight. You're not the least bit interested in a discussion that leaves you appearing as the north end of a south bound horse, so lets drop the "open discussion" trollop shall we.

No xul, you're not needed here. And our policy caused this person one of my fellow Canadians to get killed. And no, being a Canadian is not a peice of paper or document. It is to you, not to me.

Xul is welcome provided he meets the civil and employability tests our immigration system applies; as for being a Canadian, he will choose when the moniker applies, not you. What paper do you have that argues otherwise?

Lastly Mikedavid, I'd like to point out that both names in your username are of Hebrew origin. But I guess you can blame someone for that too.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Visionseeker

[xul]

Sorry Xul, it appears he is indeed Chinese. I just finished reading an article in the paper that said he and his wife were recent arrivals in Canada. He apparently worked two jobs, one delivering newspapers and the other working in the automotive department in Walmart. He and his wife lived in Edmonton.

I fail to see what his nationality has to do with the fact that he appears to be a real true to life nutjob though.

I don't think his nationality results in his crime or insanity. I refered his nationality because someone asked if he could be sent back China (for reducing Canadian taxpayer's burden or let him face a death penalty? I'm not sure).

Timeline to the Greyhound bus murder case

2007 At some point in 2007, Li is granted Canadian citizenship, court was told. That means he had been living and working in Canada for at least three years without incident.

But the newest reports say he has been Canada nationality since 2007. That means both Canada and China governments will treat him as a Canadian, and will not send him back or will not receive him to China.

Is it possible that he cracked because of the fact that he had to work two dead end menial jobs?

I also have such feeling. I have observed such economic-pressure or job-anticipating-frustration complication in some immigrants or those who applied immigrants in internet since I applied Canada immigration. There did have some reckless guys who simply think if they come to a developed country like Canada they will certainlly be guaranteed a good life so they did not do anything to prepare themself for the hardness ahead them. They only know a Canadan dishwasher can get a wage of $8/h, sounds very good to them for they can only get RMB 8 yuan/h in China, but they have nerver considered that a two bedrooms apartment only sells RMB 100,000 in their hometown but $200,000 in some Canadian cities, so when they really come, they have to face reality and feel frustrated. Ironically, these reckless guys usually have less ability to get more money in their hometown so they also have less money to support them to pass the hard initial stage as new immigrants, they may also have less ability to upgrade their profession to qualify a new job demand in a new country. These often make the situation worse. In some extreme situations, it might result in mental illness or anti-social behaviour.

Edited August 7, 2008 by xul

[jbg]

Thanks for that obviously studied and well thought out post Olegh, you certainly ramped up the discussion a notch or two.

As he/she/it always does.

[bk59]

As he/she/it always does.

Looks like mikedavid00 is also in the running for "intellectual" post of the year. It is amazing how far some will stretch in order to rant against something like immigration.

[xul]

(althrough I'm sure he wont kill anyone)

Thank you for you have such confidence on me.

I'm very pleased by the comment for it kinda proved what I believe in---honesty, simplicity and patience are always the best way to weaken bias

Edited August 7, 2008 by xul

[guyser]

Simply don't let them in the country. Problem solved.

Why?... because he appears and writes far more intelligently than you? Afraid Xul will make a good life for himself and prosper while you are stuck on the couch watching Oprah?

Heavens, I would bet when Xul gets his citizenship papers he will duly rise on election day and vote.Hell, he will vote even if it is raining which is far more than you would do.

Here is a fact md00, we need Xul because we have far too many deadbeat lazy buggers in this country like you.

He doesnt dine out on your taxes, you dine out on his contributions when he arrives and starts paying taxes.

Stay inside md, it is supposed to rain this afternoon and your perm doesnt hold up well in the rain.Oprah will be on sometime soon.

[BubberMiley]

Now extremist christians plan on protesting Tim McLean's funeral, saying his beheading is God's wrath for Canada's immoral culture.

I wonder if any of them have forsaken the Canadian flag and have thereby assumed leafless identities.

[guyser]

Now extremist christians plan on protesting Tim McLean's funeral, saying his beheading is God's wrath for Canada's immoral culture.

I wonder if any of them have forsaken the Canadian flag and have thereby assumed leafless identities.

Hang on, it is Fred Phelps and his ministry based out of Kansas. They make extremist christians look like sunday school teachers.

But , they have a right to do what they do . As distasteful as they are they have that right. But no one likes them and virtually no one outside of their 70 person ministry agrees with them.

[CANADIEN]

Gee.. there's a suprise. Funny how you guys were late to find out. It was burried deep in the media but I found out days ago.

For how many years have I sat here warning people of our immigrations system.

What happened on the bus was ultimetly an immigration issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

The above statement is 100% factual.

Going into anything further is fantasmigorical idealistic for another thread about humanity.

Canada is letting mentally ill, criminals into Canada who simply should not be here. He's here to work at walmart? Lets get real.

He's really in Edmonton to make sure the Liberal party eventually gains power. Nothing more, nothing less. That's ultimatily why he's there - not to benefit Canadians.

I should send the family an email and voice my concerns.

So the guy was already a nutcase when he arrived in Canada? And you know that how?

And if he had been a white Canadian born nutcase, would you have served us the same kind of drivel? I doubt it.

Edited August 8, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Hang on, it is Fred Phelps and his ministry based out of Kansas. They make extremist christians look like sunday school teachers.

But , they have a right to do what they do . As distasteful as they are they have that right. But no one likes them and virtually no one outside of their 70 person ministry agrees with them.

On the contrary, Fred Phelps is a great unifier. Most everyone is united in their revulsion at what he does.

[Visionseeker]

On the contrary, Fred Phelps is a great unifier. Most everyone is united in their revulsion at what he does.

Nail, head, hammer...Bang!

[gc1765]

"But Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of church's founder, Fred Phelps, said a small group of protesters was stopped at the Canada-U.S. border on Thursday afternoon.

"They won't let us in, but we have a group that will cross in another spot," she said. "They'll have to strip search everyone who crosses that border or they won't know who we are. They'll have to see the WBC (Westboro Baptist Church) tattoo on our butts."

Tattoos on their butts? Is this for real?

almost forgot the link

Edited August 8, 2008 by gc1765

[CANADIEN]

"But Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of church's founder, Fred Phelps, said a small group of protesters was stopped at the Canada-U.S. border on Thursday afternoon.

"They won't let us in, but we have a group that will cross in another spot," she said. "They'll have to strip search everyone who crosses that border or they won't know who we are. They'll have to see the WBC (Westboro Baptist Church) tattoo on our butts."

Tattoos on their butts? Is this for real?

almost forgot the link

There is one fundamental (forgive me the pun) difference between the Phelps clan and the Greyhound wacko. They no perfectly well what tey are doing.

As for not recognizing them... wild eyed nuts chanting "God hates Canada" while waiting in line at the border shouldn't be difficult to recognize.

[White Doors]

Hang on, it is Fred Phelps and his ministry based out of Kansas. They make extremist christians look like sunday school teachers.

But , they have a right to do what they do . As distasteful as they are they have that right. But no one likes them and virtually no one outside of their 70 person ministry agrees with them.

Actually, they don't have a right to do this in Canada as they are not citizens. Border services have been told not to allow them entry.

good move.

[Wild Bill]

Actually, they don't have a right to do this in Canada as they are not citizens. Border services have been told not to allow them entry.

good move.

Exactly! They have a right to knock at the door and we have the right to refuse to open it!

[normanchateau]

Hang on, it is Fred Phelps and his ministry based out of Kansas. They make extremist christians look like sunday school teachers.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...4d5&k=75332

How extremist are they? According to this url, they oppose what Stephen Harper opposes...homosexuality and abortion. Perhaps they are simply more honest about their beliefs.

[guyser]

Actually, they don't have a right to do this in Canada as they are not citizens. Border services have been told not to allow them entry.

good move.

Having the right to do it and the right to get in this country are two seperate issues.

If they get in they have the right.

[Wild Bill]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...4d5&k=75332

How extremist are they? According to this url, they oppose what Stephen Harper opposes...homosexuality and abortion. Perhaps they are simply more honest about their beliefs.

These are the same folks who show up at funerals for soldiers killed in Iraq and yell "Ha-ha! God's Will! Looks good on ya!"

They are fundamentalists to the extreme, with a big dollop of snide nastiness thrown in as well.

I wouldn't bother doing a google. It will make you sick and disgusted.

[Melanie_]

I should send the family an email and voice my concerns.

Which family? Tim McLean's? Do you really think its even slightly appropriate to contact this family just to trumpet your anti-immigrant biases? If you want to do something to benefit the family and strike out against those who let undesirables into Canada, call your MP and protest Westboro Baptist Church being able to get into Canada to disrupt the funeral tomorrow. Or come to Winnipeg and be part of the group that will be blocking them from access to the family. But I don't really think you're interested in the family or the tragedy they have experienced - all you care about is getting more ammunition for your crusade against immigrants.

[madmax]

> Subject: Thank you Canada

>

> You are receiving this email because you joined a group called "Ten

> O'Clock Tim". This is the only email that I will send.

>

> I would like to thank everyone who joined the group for their inspiring

> words. It is wonderful how we can all come together as a Nation to show

> support for a family who has lost their biggest gift in life.

>

> It brings tears to my eyes to know that there are so many people who

> genuinely care for someone they've never met. It brings hope to those whom

> have felt hopeless, and it brings unity to those whom have felt lost.

>

> Although the date has passed for the "Ten O'Clock Tim" candlelight vigil,

> we can take a moment at ANY time to send our energies of support to the

> McLean family and friends. Offering condolences to a family we've never

> met, says a lot about who we are.

>

> May you ALL treasure life as a precious gift, and bring hope and peace

> with every person you meet.

>

> Best wishes to everyone.

>

> Sincerely,

> Rachael Bowdridge

> St. John's, Newfoundland

[TomS]

So the guy was already a nutcase when he arrived in Canada? And you know that how?

And if he had been a white Canadian born nutcase, would you have served us the same kind of drivel? I doubt it.

There is a difference between dealing with a nutcase that is born here and importing the problem. We have no Choice but to deal with homegrown nutcase's, and I'm sure there is no shortage of them. Given the Choice to import nutcase's or not, I cannot believe anybody is on the yes please side. You have to admit that that is what happened in this case. Assuming you did agree, You must then admit that the problem is in our immigration system. This doesn't mean it is easily fixed, but it does mean the problem exists.

[CANADIEN]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...4d5&k=75332

How extremist are they? According to this url, they oppose what Stephen Harper opposes...homosexuality and abortion. Perhaps they are simply more honest about their beliefs.

Here are a few highlights of their beliefs:

God laughs every time an American soldier is killed in Iraq, because of the U.S. and George Bush's support of gays and lesbians

Everybody except themm will burn in Hell, and God rejoices in that

Recruitment into their "Church" should be discouraged, because God wants as many people as possible to go to Hell

[TomS]

Here are a few highlights of their beliefs:

God laughs every time an American soldier is killed in Iraq, because of the U.S. and George Bush's support of gays and lesbians

Everybody except themm will burn in Hell, and God rejoices in that

Recruitment into their "Church" should be discouraged, because God wants as many people as possible to go to Hell

I'm actually responding to the URL that you responded to. It appears as though if I or any other Canadian citizen does not agree with you on these or anything else they will be labelled. It is a week discussion trick to insult the opposition before it speaks up, of course in hopes that it will not, therfore limiting the general public from speaking up for fear of the Label, of your choice.

[bk59]

There is a difference between dealing with a nutcase that is born here and importing the problem. We have no Choice but to deal with homegrown nutcase's, and I'm sure there is no shortage of them. Given the Choice to import nutcase's or not, I cannot believe anybody is on the yes please side. You have to admit that that is what happened in this case. Assuming you did agree, You must then admit that the problem is in our immigration system. This doesn't mean it is easily fixed, but it does mean the problem exists.

Do you really think that at the time this person immigrated to Canada someone thought he was capable of this type of behaviour? Do you really think that over the years he was living in Canada someone could have predicted this event? I really do not think so. This particular case is not an immigration problem/issue. Should we demand that our immigration officials be able to predict the future so that we can exclude people who might develop problems in the future?

I think your labeling this as an immigration problem is inappropriate. If this person was born in British Columbia would you call this a "British Columbia problem"? This person delivered newspapers. Is this a "newspaper delivery person problem"? The accused is married. Is this a "married people problem"? I hope you can see how ridiculous your labeling has become.

[xul]

There is a difference between dealing with a nutcase that is born here and importing the problem. We have no Choice but to deal with homegrown nutcase's, and I'm sure there is no shortage of them. Given the Choice to import nutcase's or not, I cannot believe anybody is on the yes please side.

I agree with this part of your statement. If there was a Canadian who was delighted to import maniacs into Canada, he might be a psycho too or, a psychologist who was supposed to be benefited from such kind of importation.

But there are some technical problem. Sometimes even a well-trained psychologist could also have problem to identify a man who has mental disease but without obvious symptoms, because most these guys look "normal" if their disease doesn't come on. For example, all immigrants were required to pass a medical examination to remove those who have serious disease such as cancer, but there still has some possibility that there are some guys who has already had a small tumor in their body but a CT or a MRI machine can not find out, so when they come to Canada, their tumor grow up and begin to take medicare before they make any contribution to Canada. Such situation is not the intent of Canada immigration policy, but it can be considered as an acceptable risk of the policy. Just as death by crash is not the intent of traveling by air, but when we aboard a airplane we are fully aware it has slight chance to crash down, and we do still travel by air.

Let's go back Americanwoman's thread. What she suggested is essentially a reaction of the event. But before we adopt a reaction, two factors must be considered first.

The first factor is feasibility. If we could mount a sorting machine on each buses's doors to sort out maniacs and criminals, it would be the best reaction to such cases. But unfortunately our scientists can not build such kind of machines, so the reaction would not be adopted.

The second factor is that the reaction must match the action which triggers the reaction. Under this factor there are a lot of sub-factors must be considered. One of them is cost-effectiveness. For example, if there are a lot of psycho who like do such thing on buses, I think it is necessary to have a X-ray machine in each bus-stop to guarantee no knives aboard, or each passengers need to be offered with a bulletproof vest to keep their life safe. But considering Li-liked psycho are really rare, I don't think there might have a lot passengers who would carry pepper sprayers if they took buses.

And what you suggested is also a kind of reaction, so the two factors would also need to be considered.

Edited August 9, 2008 by xul