Bernier Resigns

[jdobbin]

Trudeau didn't give a shit about security. There were routine leaks from the RCMP about how they'd caught this or that spy doing this or that but been forbidden to do anything about it by the government. They valued not rocking the boat - good relationships with the soviets and chinese over security issues.

Oh, I'm sure Trudeau had his problems. However, he wouldn't have made the argument that the government shouldn't be looking into the bedrooms of the nation as way to thwart Canadian security. Only Stephen Harper is doing that. He is basically saying that the spouse of a Canadian minister can be a security threat because he has an "don't ask, don't tell policy" on that.

'Trudeau, and later Chretien, slashed the budgets for the military and coast guard, and Martin even eliminated the Ports police - so that our major ports are now controlled by organized crime, and Martin's owns ships can be used to smuggle drugs.

Yes, now there is no police at all in the ports. Oh my. Perhaps it is because we have the RCMP to do that.

Why hasn't Harper brought the Port Police back? He promised it.

http://circ.jmellon.com/docs/html/stand_up...nce_agency.html

Restore the Canada Ports Police disbanded by the Liberals which resulted in the growth of organized crime at Canada’s seaports.

The Tories are soft on port crime?

[noahbody]

Oh, I'm sure Trudeau had his problems. However, he wouldn't have made the argument that the government shouldn't be looking into the bedrooms of the nation as way to thwart Canadian security.

Maybe we should call a Mick Jagger inquiry just in case he knows something.

[jdobbin]

The old "but the Liberals" argument is still as valid as ever since they're the same bunch of people who were in power a couple of years ago. It's valid not only to show they would do no better, but it's also valid to show what crass, lying hypocrites they are to now pompously decry security considerations when they never showed any interest in security considerations while in power.

It only emphasized that the Tories are now the pompous, lying decriers of security considerations due to hypocritical policies.

What kind of security threat do you think she posed? I mean, seriously. Foreign affairs? Do you think her old biker pals cared about what Bernier's briefing notes had to say about the chances of getting Georgia into NATO? Do you honestly think there was any information there which wasn't readily available to anyone reading the reams of freely available analyses coming out of Afghanistan and Europe?

Bernier was a member of the inner cabinet. Didn't have to be anything in regards to his portfolio but something in regards to an internal matter discussed in cabinet.

I certainly would have let security experts determine the threat rather than Harper dismissing the whole idea.

[jdobbin]

Maybe we should call a Mick Jagger inquiry just in case he knows something.

Think he might know Bernier's connections to the mob?

[noahbody]

Think he might know Bernier's connections to the mob?

Cancel that. Apparently it was Ron Wood. http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news...ca04&k=9143

But it looks like the band was 'associated' with the Hell's Angels. So the need for the Ron Wood Inquiry stands.

Many of these numbers were played during the band's US tour in November 1969, their first in three years. Just after the tour the band also staged the Altamont Free Concert, at the Altamont Speedway, about 60km east of San Francisco. The biker gang Hells Angels provided security,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stones

[jdobbin]

Cancel that. Apparently it was Ron Wood.

Ron Wood has probably gone through more security checks that Bernier's girlfriend ever has.

[BubberMiley]

Nice to see liberal arrogance is a constant factor.

It speaks volumes when all you have left is a pathetic attempt at character assassination.

But then again it is your main form of debate, as you have nothing of relevance anyway.

Character assassination? How could an anonymous poster's character even be assassinated? No one knows what it is. I was just helping you realize your lazy writing could cause your meaning to be misinterpreted. You should thank me. I really couldn't care less about Liberals, Tories, or Bernier and his Hell's Angels buddies.

Character assassination is what the right wing likes to do when they're in a bind and trying to divert attention from their mistakes and corruption--sort of like what Scott McClellan is going through right now.

[Topaz]

After listening to different news report I've come to the reality that the Cons did do a security on her because Julie got a "green book" to travel with Bernier as his spouse, its the only way she could go as. They don't want and come out and say that a security check was done because they didn't care about her past and if you listen to Harper he kinda gave that idea. So what you have is very bad judgement on the part of the government because they can't prove that only Bernier knows what in those documents and today it was said he also forgot some papers at a Montreal hotel. What was his parl.sec. doing in those 7 weeks??

[jdobbin]

For those who continue to disbelieve that the story is not being featured prominently around the world.

http://www.canada.com/news/story.html?id=b...ae-9efc3db65757

Few websites didn't run with a photo of the former so-called ministerial couple, including the BBC website which, like many outlets, pointed out that Bernier was under pressure to resign following previous slip-ups such as his suggestion the "Afghan President Hamid Karzai replace the governor of Kandahar province, where Canada has 2,500 troops stationed." Chinese News Agency Xinhua noted Bernier "has been under fire recently for his former girlfriend's links with an organized crime group."

[Fortunata]

After listening to different news report I've come to the reality that the Cons did do a security on her because Julie got a "green book" to travel with Bernier as his spouse, its the only way she could go as. They don't want and come out and say that a security check was done because they didn't care about her past and if you listen to Harper he kinda gave that idea. So what you have is very bad judgement on the part of the government because they can't prove that only Bernier knows what in those documents and today it was said he also forgot some papers at a Montreal hotel. What was his parl.sec. doing in those 7 weeks??

Didn't the face of the CPC, van Loan say today in the House that she didn't qualify as either a wife nor a common-law spouse so she couldn't have had the green passport?

[Argus]

Is it just Liberals that are being critical? Nope. It's security experts. Nothing to do with the Liberals. It's the public (like me). Nothing to do with the Liberals. The pseudo Liberal justification/deflection has no place here.

In the hierarchy of importance in levels of government the PMO is first, Defence second, Foreign Affairs, third. So Foreign Affairs would have the third most top level security information/documents in government. How can you honestly not see why security is important.

Foreign Affairs is a glamour position, but is really not all that important because the PM has always made all the important decisions (it was the same under Chretien, Mulroney and Martin and Trudeau). You are quite wrong about even Defense. In the hierarchy of government the minister of Defense has been considered about the tenth or fifteenth most important minister over the last twenty five years. Look at the legion of nonentities who have been shoved into that portfolio since Trudeau's age?

Plans on how to fight the Taliban? That would not be of interest to someone like Bernier, who had no military or security expertise. Plans on how to combat the proliferation of drugs? Also not at that level. He's at the top level of hand-shaking and lip gloss. All the nitty gritty detail work is done by those several levels down. More likely would be briefings on other government's positions on a variety of subjects and how firm those positions were (and how they might be changed), incl, in this case, the admission of former warsaw pact nations into Nato.

[Argus]

Bernier was a member of the inner cabinet. Didn't have to be anything in regards to his portfolio but something in regards to an internal matter discussed in cabinet.

I certainly would have let security experts determine the threat rather than Harper dismissing the whole idea.

A lot of security experts are saying this is a tempest in a teacup, and that public servants and politicians routinely forget "classified" documents all over the place.

Doubt they'd be as impressed at your party inviting a man with close associations to the mafia into your cabinet.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Argus

[Topaz]

A lot of security experts are saying this is a tempest in a teacup, and that public servants and politicians routinely forget "classified" documents all over the place.

Doubt they'd be as impressed at your party inviting a man with close associations to the mafia into your cabinet.

I think Harper made a mistake taking McKay out of foreign affairs to defence, put him back to foreigns affairs and put a former military person in as defence, there`s alot to chose from.

[BubberMiley]

A lot of security experts are saying this is a tempest in a teacup, and that public servants and politicians routinely forget "classified" documents all over the place.

Can you provide a citation of one? I know you can't for all your previous allegations.

I'm sure you can't for this one too, because you've never been able to back up any of your assertions based on verifiable evidence. They're all based on the random musings of a paranoid, partisan, anonymous Conservative Party hack.

Edited May 31, 2008 by BubberMiley

[jdobbin]

A lot of security experts are saying this is a tempest in a teacup, and that public servants and politicians routinely forget "classified" documents all over the place.

Who? Name them.

Doubt they'd be as impressed at your party inviting a man with close associations to the mafia into your cabinet.

But the Liberals!

[capricorn]

But the Liberals!

Even the media commonly resurrect the days of Liberal rule. What's wrong with that? Just because there is a Conservative government in power shouldn't result in amnesia. Here's one from the Star just today regarding Chretien titled "A PM who could really stonewall".

Whatever his failings as prime minister, Jean Chrétien was no fool. Tough and shrewd, he rarely surrendered a minister to the howling opposition and routinely stared down scandal with disdain.

A favoured tactic was to treat political dirt like ordinary dirt. In that folksy way, he counselled nervous Nellies to be patient, to let the mud dry before simply flicking it off the party's sleeve.

Another Chrétien pattern was to call in the Mounties. Along with creating the illusion of a serious response, that bought months, sometimes years, of precious, silent, time and rarely led anywhere.

http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/434474

Come to think of it, there's no shortage of references to the Harris, Rae or Mulroney days. Why should the Liberals be exempt?

[jdobbin]

Even the media commonly resurrect the days of Liberal rule. What's wrong with that? Just because there is a Conservative government in power shouldn't result in amnesia. Here's one from the Star just today regarding Chretien titled "A PM who could really stonewall".

I have no problem with the media comparing Harper to the bad old days of Chretien. I have no problems with right wingers doing the same.

It just emphasizes that Harper is as bad as what he used to criticize.

[Argus]

I think Harper made a mistake taking McKay out of foreign affairs to defence, put him back to foreigns affairs and put a former military person in as defence, there`s alot to chose from.

They had one there, and reportedly he did quite well. Where he failed was in the back and forth slapfest which is the House of Commons.

[Argus]

Can you provide a citation of one? I know you can't for all your previous allegations.

The documents Bernier left at Couillard's home included classified briefing materials for the April NATO summit in Bucharest. Couillard said she returned the papers to the government after consulting a lawyer because holding on to them made her uncomfortable.

Morden noted the rules governing proper handling of classified federal material are routinely broken.

"I think you'd find that virtually every senior official in Ottawa has taken classified documents home," he said.

"If you'd like the wheels of government to grind even more slowly, then you should insist that people never take these things anywhere."

With that in mind, Mathers questioned Couillard's sincerity.

"Government employees leave documents everywhere every day," Mathers said.

"And all of a sudden she said that she was panicked by the fact that he left documents? Come on - she's playing to the crowd."

Canadian Press

I'm sure you can't for this one too, because you've never been able to back up any of your assertions based on verifiable evidence. They're all based on the random musings of a paranoid, partisan, anonymous Conservative Party hack.

Paranoid? Anonymous? And your name really is Bubbermiley and you're not generally considered something of a shrill, emotionally unstable wingnut here? As for party hack, I've never belonged to any political party, and most of my posts here have more to do with attacking the sleazy hypocrisy of the Liberal party and its intellectually and morally bankrupt supporters than defending the Tories.

[Argus]

Who? Name them.

But the Liberals!

Yes, but the Liberals who were so thoroughly corrupt when in power but now wring their hands at the thought of a tory hiring his friend's daughter. Yes, the Liberals, who poured billions down the hole of political patronage and corruption but now sob broken-heartedly every time the budget goes up. Yes, the Liberals, who laughed and mocked tory concerns about security issues while dallying with the Soviets and Cubans and various world terrorist groups but now are horrified that some unimportant minister's ex-girlfriend was once an "associate" of bikers.

Yes, the Liberals who were in power and who are now on the opposition side of the house. The same bunch of crooks are salivating at the hope they'll get back into power and be able to line their pockets once again.

[Argus]

I have no problem with the media comparing Harper to the bad old days of Chretien. I have no problems with right wingers doing the same.

It just emphasizes that Harper is as bad as what he used to criticize.

To me, a man who misspends a dollar is not, despite what you would have us believe, as bad as a man who steals a hundred dollars.

[jdobbin]

To me, a man who misspends a dollar is not, despite what you would have us believe, as bad as a man who steals a hundred dollars.

Thankfully, you won't have to face a Chretien re-election.

[jdobbin]

Yes, the Liberals who were in power and who are now on the opposition side of the house. The same bunch of crooks are salivating at the hope they'll get back into power and be able to line their pockets once again.

And who will probably get in with a Tory party that wants to put new laws in on abortion, the death penalty and on marriage as soon as they can get a majority.

[BubberMiley]

Paranoid? Anonymous? And your name really is Bubbermiley and you're not generally considered something of a shrill, emotionally unstable wingnut here?

Of course, although if I went around saying, without any citation or evidence, that Bernier frequently makes use of child prostitutes, I would hope you would consider that to be as worthless as the tripe you post without backing it up.

Edited June 1, 2008 by BubberMiley

[Wild Bill]

And who will probably get in with a Tory party that wants to put new laws in on abortion, the death penalty and on marriage as soon as they can get a majority.

This doesn't quite make sense for ANY politician to do! After all, they want to get RE-ELECTED, don't they?

Then again, perhaps you're partially right. Polls over the years have consistently shown that Canadians favour the death penalty as an option, at least when there's no longer any reasonable doubt, as with Paul and Karla.

So on 1 out of 3 they would gain support for the following election but on the other two they would likely lose, big time!

So I guess it depends on whether or not you believe that the Tories have a "scary! scary!" agenda that they would fulfill first chance they got and damn the consequences or if they would be pragmatic and accept the will of the majority of voters.

In effect, do you believe that the Tories would commit political suicide to fulfill your "straw man" premise?

Seems a bit of a stretch to me, although I will admit if Stockwell were back as leader he might be dumb and naive enough to try. Not very many others in the Tory party, I would think. Or any other party, for that matter.