Mike Harris Chief of Staff to replace Brodie

[HisSelf]

Ian Brodie is being replaced by Guy Giorno as Prime Minister Stephen Harper's top aide. Giorno served as chief of staff to Mike Harris.

Those of you who might not be acquainted with the Harris years in Ontario will be interested to know that Giorno once declared that Mike Harris had changed politics permanently in Canada - for the good. The Harris government instituted radical budget cuts crippling the Environment Ministry so badly that people were dieing of water contamination (Walkerton) and the Health Ministry to the point where unurses left in droves - either laid off or p'd-off. A massive deficit built up in the nursing profession that is only now being recovered. Many of the exiting nurses (trained at Ontario expense) moved to the US where they got much sweeter deals and it is unlikely many will return. Finally, as an election approached, the Ontario Tories realised they hadn't a hope in hell of winning again with the good old Duffer (Harris used to be a golf pro, if you can believe it. Even John Major, a former circus performer, could do a better job of running a government) so they dumped him and put Ernie Eves in his place. Eves was the finance minister at the time and he needed to be replaced so good old Jim Flaherty popped up as Minister of Finance. Just before the Ontario election, Flaherty delivered a budget showing the books were balanced. After McGuinty got into power, he found out that the budget-cuttting Tories had run the province into a massive deficit. When McGuinty had to back off on budget promises made during the election, the Toronto Sun (Brian Mulroney, Chairman of the Board) started printing headlines calling him a liar - unparliamentary language, and apparently something we cannot even do in this forum. Many of the Ontario Tory cabinet ministers, after losing their seats in Ontario, scuttled into federal politics - mostly notably Jim Flaherty and John Baird.

Will Canada be better off with the PM having Giorno has his chief of staff or should we be knuckling down for Mike Harris part d'oh?

Edited May 24, 2008 by HisSelf

[Michael Bluth]

Harris won in '95 and '99 with 45% of the vote both times. Majorities built on tapping into the sentiments of the 905 region.

If Giorno can tap into that for the CPC it looks like a majority is a definite possibility.

[Keepitsimple]

Ian Brodie is being replaced by Guy Giorno as Prime Minister Stephen Harper's top aide. Giorno served as chief of staff to Mike Harris.

Those of you who might not be acquainted with the Harris years in Ontario will be interested to know that Giorno once declared that Mike Harris had changed politics permanently in Canada - for the good. The Harris government instituted radical budget cuts crippling the Environment Ministry so badly that people were dieing of water contamination (Walkerton) and the Health Ministry to the point where unurses left in droves - either laid off or p'd-off. A massive deficit built up in the nursing profession that is only now being recovered. Many of the exiting nurses (trained at Ontario expense) moved to the US where they got much sweeter deals and it is unlikely many will return. Finally, as an election approached, the Ontario Tories realised they hadn't a hope in hell of winning again with the good old Duffer (Harris used to be a golf pro, if you can believe it. Even John Major, a former circus performer, could do a better job of running a government) so they dumped him and put Ernie Eves in his place. Eves was the finance minister at the time and he needed to be replaced so good old Jim Flaherty popped up as Minister of Finance. Just before the Ontario election, Flaherty delivered a budget showing the books were balanced. After McGuinty got into power, he found out that the budget-cuttting Tories had run the province into a massive deficit. When McGuinty had to back off on budget promises made during the election, the Toronto Sun (Brian Mulroney, Chairman of the Board) started printing headlines calling him a liar - unparliamentary language, and apparently something we cannot even do in this forum. Many of the Ontario Tory cabinet ministers, after losing their seats in Ontario, scuttled into federal politics - mostly notably Jim Flaherty and John Baird.

Will Canada be better off with the PM having Giorno has his chief of staff or should we be knuckling down for Mike Harris part d'oh?

What a naive post. He inherited an 8 or 9 billion dollar deficit from the NDP and had to bear the brunt of reduced transfersw from the Federal Liberals. Putting the inherited deficit in perspective, at that time total annual revenues were only about 45 billion - yet the NDP were spending 53 or 54 billion - that's almost 20% over budget. In comparison, McGuinty's Liberals inherited a 5 billion dollar deficit but have had about 85 billion in revenues to work with - that's about 7% over budget. At the time that Harris came in, taxes were so high that businesses were fleeing Ontario and revenues were in danger of going down. Ontario was oh so close to bankruptcy and anything less than drastic action would have brought that about. By slashing taxes. he stimulated the economy, revenues rose, he invested in Healthcare and Education - saving both. He was the right man at the right time but clearly ran out of steam - as "fixers" tend to do. I'm not a personal Mike Harris fan but I have to tip my hat to how he saved the province from absolute ruin. Mike Harris accomplished a mountain of achievements - that's why he got the largest back to back majorities in Ontario history.

Anyone who knows anything about Walkerton knows that two drunks who knew lttle about water treatment were appointed by city council. They circumvented their testing by simply taking water out of the taps. They ignored warnings. They were drunk on the job. What system can account for wilful negligence. They were tried and should have been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter but the judge figured they had suffered enough - I don't think they did.

Mike Harris' changes to Education still exist today. He had the courage to take on the teacher's union - a union that was opposed to changing the carriculum, a union that was opposed to any kind of teacher testing, a union that picked on the weakest school board, got the best gold-plated agreement it could and then threatened other boards with strike action unless they fell in line. Teacher's salaries and benefits, working hours, "PD days" were through the roof and eating up all the dollars that were available. Harris introduced centralized per-student funding and took away the union's power to negotiate with individual school boards. Almost all of these changes have been retained by the McGuinty government.

If you truly go back and understand history, you'll have to grudgingly admit that he put Ontario back on track. You don't have to like him.

Edited May 24, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[M.Dancer]

What a naive post.

Yes. If I had time I would fisk it.....suffice to say blaming wakerton on Harris, while every inquiry has placed the blame wher it belongs is typical of the poster who claims to ignore those who are idealogues.

[margrace]

What a naive post. He inherited an 8 or 9 billion dollar deficit from the NDP and had to bear the brunt of reduced transfersw from the Federal Liberals. Putting the inherited deficit in perspective, at that time total annual revenues were only about 45 billion - yet the NDP were spending 53 or 54 billion - that's almost 20% over budget. In comparison, McGuinty's Liberals inherited a 5 billion dollar deficit but have had about 85 billion in revenues to work with - that's about 7% over budget. At the time that Harris came in, taxes were so high that businesses were fleeing Ontario and revenues were in danger of going down. Ontario was oh so close to bankruptcy and anything less than drastic action would have brought that about. By slashing taxes. he stimulated the economy, revenues rose, he invested in Healthcare and Education - saving both. He was the right man at the right time but clearly ran out of steam - as "fixers" tend to do. I'm not a personal Mike Harris fan but I have to tip my hat to how he saved the province from absolute ruin. Mike Harris accomplished a mountain of achievements - that's why he got the largest back to back majorities in Ontario history.

Anyone who knows anything about Walkerton knows that two drunks who knew lttle about water treatment were appointed by city council. They circumvented their testing by simply taking water out of the taps. They ignored warnings. They were drunk on the job. What system can account for wilful negligence. They were tried and should have been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter but the judge figured they had suffered enough - I don't think they did.

Mike Harris' changes to Education still exist today. He had the courage to take on the teacher's union - a union that was opposed to changing the carriculum, a union that was opposed to any kind of teacher testing, a union that picked on the weakest school board, got the best gold-plated agreement it could and then threatened other boards with strike action unless they fell in line. Teacher's salaries and benefits, working hours, "PD days" were through the roof and eating up all the dollars that were available. Harris introduced centralized per-student funding and took away the union's power to negotiate with individual school boards. Almost all of these changes have been retained by the McGuinty government.

If you truly go back and understand history, you'll have to grudgingly admit that he put Ontario back on track. You don't have to like him.

Yes we all buy that' Mikey boy headed back for North Bay where he should have stayed in the first place, he was the first head of government that had to have protection before he could go out in public. When he realized that he had done to the provincial conservative party what Mulroney had done to the Federal partyl he cut and run leaving the mess to land slide Ernie.

Yep Ontariians need the good old boys back.

Edited May 24, 2008 by margrace

[Wild Bill]

Yes we all buy that' Mikey boy headed back for North Bay where he should have stayed in the first place, he was the first head of government that had to have protection before he could go out in public. When he realized that he had done to the provincial conservative party what Mulroney had done to the Federal partyl he cut and run leaving the mess to land slide Ernie.

Yep Ontariians need the good old boys back.

Just because you don't like him doesn't change facts! I've never liked Dalton but I would concede that he must have done a few good things.

It might take me a few years to think of one or two but nonetheless there must be something...

Meanwhile, it seems to me that Mike actually acted as a true Liberal in the Walkerton situation. He didn't HANG the Cable brothers who poisoned the town, including those poor babies!

I would have, in a heartbeat! It was criminal negligence of the most horrific kind.

Those who keep putting the blame for Walkerton on Harris seem to be saying that somehow Harris knew all about what was happening in that town and put a gun to the one Cable brother's head and forced him to poison the water! Their argument seems to be that Harris was totally at fault for not funding sufficient inspectors, rather than blaming the men who actually committed the crime!

I guess that's the true essence of modern liberalism. No individual is responsible for anything, unless he's our political opponent, in which case he's totally evil and responsible for everything we can think to throw at him. If he's one of ours, then we will forgive him any sin and blame the aforementioned political opponent instead.

Frankly, I find this attitude disgusting and one of the likely sources for many of our social problems today. It's just "bread and circuses" all over again.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Wild Bill

[Argus]

Yes we all buy that' Mikey boy headed back for North Bay where he should have stayed in the first place, he was the first head of government that had to have protection before he could go out in public.

If that were the case it would because people like you are so gripped with the hatred that you are capable of violence towards those who are merely on the other side of the political spectrum.

The shrill howls of mindless anger from the left during Harris' time were an indication of the emotionalism and intellectual bankruptcy of many of them. Harris was accused - as Harper is now often accused - of hating poor people, of wanting to destroy health care, of wanting to destroy the education system, and of being a murderer, either for Walkerton or that indian idiot who the OPP killed, or for other reasons. The venom and rage directed at him - and still is by some people - was really absurd to see.

[margrace]

If that were the case it would because people like you are so gripped with the hatred that you are capable of violence towards those who are merely on the other side of the political spectrum.

The shrill howls of mindless anger from the left during Harris' time were an indication of the emotionalism and intellectual bankruptcy of many of them. Harris was accused - as Harper is now often accused - of hating poor people, of wanting to destroy health care, of wanting to destroy the education system, and of being a murderer, either for Walkerton or that indian idiot who the OPP killed, or for other reasons. The venom and rage directed at him - and still is by some people - was really absurd to see.

And you think Harris was not guilty of all of the above??? Yep Harris's slogan was Ontario is now open for business and now we are paying the piper.

Edited May 25, 2008 by margrace

[Keepitsimple]

And you think Harris was not guilty of all of the above??? Yep Harris's slogan was Ontario is now open for business and now we are paying the piper.

Omygod Margarce....give yourself a shake!!!

[Wild Bill]

And you think Harris was not guilty of all of the above??? Yep Harris's slogan was Ontario is now open for business and now we are paying the piper.

And Dalton's has been "Ontario is now and will remain the most expensive province to do business!".

Business is leaving. Go figure.

What's the old line? "A recession is when your neighbour loses his job. A depression is when YOU lose your job!"

[Argus]

And you think Harris was not guilty of all of the above??? Yep Harris's slogan was Ontario is now open for business and now we are paying the piper.

Harris was guilty of NONE of the above. No reasonable person would suspect he was.

[margrace]

Harris was guilty of NONE of the above. No reasonable person would suspect he was.

Really Harris sold out everything he could to his American friends and then realized it was time to go. Someone said the former ski bum and golf player from North Bay, the one who did not get his teachers liscense now sits on 10 boards of his company friends.

[Wild Bill]

Really Harris sold out everything he could to his American friends and then realized it was time to go. Someone said the former ski bum and golf player from North Bay, the one who did not get his teachers liscense now sits on 10 boards of his company friends.

Margrace, you've gone over the hill, I'm afraid.

Hereafter I shall refer to you as "DangerMouse2".

[Kitchener]

...that indian idiot who the OPP killed...

Stomach-turning, callous, ignorant, racist filth.

And how remarkable that the dittoheads could read over this bit of filth, and only find margrace's post comment-worthy.

[Kitchener]

Margrace, you've gone over the hill, I'm afraid.

What part of the quote you reproduced was false? The American bit? Fair enough, but still -- what's accurate is more notable than what isn't.

Harris was indeed an unsuccessful school-teacher, who then worked at a golf course.

After retiring from politics, he held or holds sinecures on the boards of at least several major corporations, including Magna (despite having no automotive parts expertise), Grey Island Systems International (despite having no telematics/transport experience), and Goodmans LLP (despite having no legal background). He is, incredibly, also a "Senior Research Fellow" at the Fraser Institute. (You know Harris -- renowned for his scholarship.) I suspect that only a select few readers are capable of the cognitive inability to detect the golden parachutes.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Kitchener

[Michael Bluth]

After retiring from politics, he held or holds sinecures on the boards of at least several major corporations, including Magna (despite having no automotive parts expertise), Grey Island Systems International (despite having no telematics/transport experience), and Goodmans LLP (despite having no legal background). He is, incredibly, also a "Senior Research Fellow" at the Fraser Institute. (You know Harris -- renowned for his scholarship.) I suspect that only a select few readers are capable of the cognitive inability to detect the golden parachutes.

I'm sure more than a few readers here have the knowledge of corporate governance to understand how weak your claims are.

It is in the best interest of an organization with a board of directors that the composition of the directors come from a cross-section of backgrounds and experiences.

As the head of the province with the largest economy in the country Harris has exactly the set of experiences that any set of rational shareholders looks for as part of the team that governs how their investment is managed.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Michael Bluth

[Argus]

Really Harris sold out everything he could to his American friends and then realized it was time to go. Someone said the former ski bum and golf player from North Bay, the one who did not get his teachers liscense now sits on 10 boards of his company friends.

There's that bitter envy again for a man who is successful - while you're not.

[Argus]

Stomach-turning, callous, ignorant, racist filth.

And how remarkable that the dittoheads could read over this bit of filth, and only find margrace's post comment-worthy.

Mmmm..... should I tell you what I think of you... no best not. I'll just report you instead.

[Oleg Bach]

Mmmm..... should I tell you what I think of you... no best not. I'll just report you instead.

Harris is an old golfing cowboy and front man..anyone that has an accociation with Frank Stronach...and that bunch of Magna bagda is questionable...there is a dark history behind this group..If you are from the Aurora area and have been around there and watch things develope in the last 40 years you will understand that these "men" are nor really that nice of guys...they are bad boys.

[Wild Bill]

What part of the quote you reproduced was false? The American bit? Fair enough, but still -- what's accurate is more notable than what isn't.

Harris was indeed an unsuccessful school-teacher, who then worked at a golf course.

After retiring from politics, he held or holds sinecures on the boards of at least several major corporations, including Magna (despite having no automotive parts expertise), Grey Island Systems International (despite having no telematics/transport experience), and Goodmans LLP (despite having no legal background). He is, incredibly, also a "Senior Research Fellow" at the Fraser Institute. (You know Harris -- renowned for his scholarship.) I suspect that only a select few readers are capable of the cognitive inability to detect the golden parachutes.

You cite a lot of non sequiturs! I've been around a number of corporate boards and rarely does ANY director have "hands-on" experience with the product or service. Directors are chosen for their connections and influence. If you need someone who knows how to build the widget you hire him!

Harris would have the connections and influence in spades.

Actually, you've pushed one of my buttons. I've lived through two companies that were driven out of business by non hands-on management. It got so that if I saw too many MBA's coming on board I would send out my resume! I've read that Canada, America and Britain are the only countries in the world with specific education programs for business management. Everyone else prefers managers to come up from the ranks, preferably starting on the floor.

Not surprisingly, our 3 countries have the reputation as having the poorest management!

No, Harris is sought after for his salesmanship, which is a skillset that schools can only enhance but never create.

Once again, it looks like just because you don't like the man you stretch your argument to fit your hand-picked facts.

I'm not defending the man. I'll never forgive him for amalgamating Hamilton with its suburbs. There's not a single blessed instance where my taxes have gone down or my service levels gone up. It's been a total hardship. I voted for him for the usual Canadian reason: he didn't smell quite as bad as the other guys!

I just think your argument is more emotional than rational. I'd even defend Dalton from the same sort of attack.

[Kitchener]

Harris would have the connections and influence in spades.

Which was entirely the point I was making. Whatever his alleged personal skills and abilities -- "salesmanship", for example -- they were utterly unsuccessful in landing him these positions before his stint as Premier. This sort of post-career influence-peddling goes on all the time, and is hardly confined to the furthest right on the political spectrum. But that it paid off big-time for Harris (the "Research Fellowship" being the most entertaining) is beyond question.

What this leaves unestablished is margrace's inference that there was (at least an indirect) quid pro quo involved in Harris's case. There could be a useful discussion of that; it could be true, or true to a degree, or false. But neither margrace's claim nor the string of rationally empty horse-laughs that greeted the claim certainly proved anything. It's worth sorting out at least what facts in that case are known to hold, which is what I was doing.

[Kitchener]

Mmmm..... should I tell you what I think of you... no best not. I'll just report you instead.

Please confirm that you have reported this exchange, so that I don't needlessly report it as well.

I was wrong not to report it when a handful of posters got wet palms and tight pants at the idea of brutalizing a lesbian. But the board's management needs to recognize the presence of posters who lurch toward and into racist and sexist hate-speech. Hard knocks against other posters are one thing; nothing said about me here will hurt my feelings. But this is something else.

[margrace]

Margrace, you've gone over the hill, I'm afraid.

Hereafter I shall refer to you as "DangerMouse2".

You must have the same educational abilities as Harris if this is all you can say in refuting my post.

[White Doors]

Stomach-turning, callous, ignorant, racist filth.

And how remarkable that the dittoheads could read over this bit of filth, and only find margrace's post comment-worthy.

How, in any measure of the word, is this racist?

he was pointing out a single Indian that got killed for, admitteldly, being an idiot.

What the heck os wrong with saying that?

What are you, the thought police?

give it a break and get over yourself.

[margrace]

It would seem that any real discussion on Harris and his political machinations on here is greeted with sarcasm. Harris was a front man, he had no real control of the government, it was all set up and controlled by the type of people now on the Harper gov/t and being preposed as new advisors.

If you look at the Harper policies from his past, now being denied by nay sayers on here, you will find that the Ontario Government of that time and what is going on in Ottawa right now are really no different. Telling people that Harris sits on such ultra conservative organizations as the Fraser Institute seems to scare the devil out of certain posters. They don't want Ontarions to know this or even suggest that they might be able to see what is going on. Harper can't get his majority, he wants so badly, without Ontario and he is risking losing Quebec to gain power.

I will put on my "tin hat" and wonder what really is the agenda of these people? Do they want to split the country and sell out to the section of the American poloticians who have always advocated that Canada really belongs to them.

Now I will run for the hills before the nastiness start to fly because this is the only way the negative posters can operate.