Only The NDP And Green Party Oppose Bush & Cheney War On Drugs

[White Doors]

Big city folks demand real results for their taxes.

like the long gun registry!

[jbg]

The overwhelming majority of States have NOT decriminalized cannabis. The ones which have or are close to doing so (Alaska, Colorado, California), still have harshly draconian and brutally authoritarian federal DEA directives putting cannabis users/producers/consumers in prison for years, if not decades, basically ignoring state law with impunity.

The DEA directives prevent the legalization for medical purposes. I oppose these laws too. There is virtually no enforcement effort on cannabis laws, even in non-decriminalizing states. Enforcement is a state function, except in airports, at the borders, and federal facilities, which are few and far between.

Why ? The hypocritical, right-wing, religious, Falwellian Neo-Cons enjoy persecution, incarceration, torture and unjustified hyper-criminalization of a relatively innocuous substance.

More name-calling? I am sometimes considered a neo-con. Being Jewish, calling me "Falwellian" would be hilarious.

[jbg]

The evidence is there if you study the *recent* center-left Sask. NDP reign and the recent and current center-left Scandinavian examples, but you must open your eyes first.

Why has Saskatchewan been losing population and economic activity at a steady clip until recently? The "Brad Wall" effect seems to have turned things around, fortunately.

[Wilber]

That's in the PREVIOUS paradigm. In the new Neo-Con clampdown, under bill C-26, 1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated, while dictatorial hypocrits go home and pursue a much more lethal and addictive drug use pattern with hard liquor, packs of tobacco, and pharmaceutical cocktails.

To be so dismissive of the hardline clampdown which is being advanced, is to deny reality.

No we won't. Nowhere to put them.

[Wild Bill]

like the long gun registry!

The long gun registry was never demanded by cities and those who live in cities were never asked their opinion anyway. The Liberals just did it!

You may be confused by mistaking Toronto and Montreal for cities. Toronto is not a city. It is a strange planet peopled by aliens that have absolutely nothing in culture or values in common with the rest of Ontario, Canada or the rest of Earth, for that matter.

Montreal of course, is French! <gallic, expressive shrug>

[AngusThermopyle]

That's in the PREVIOUS paradigm. In the new Neo-Con clampdown, under bill C-26, 1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated, while dictatorial hypocrits go home and pursue a much more lethal and addictive drug use pattern with hard liquor, packs of tobacco, and pharmaceutical cocktails.

This is another rant that I hear all the time lately, yet I've never seen any proof at all of this. Is there any proof that can be shown?

The reality would appear to be the opposite in fact. Just recently a young woman I know was busted with a 1/4 lb of weed, a set of scales and about $600 or $700 dollars. She was given a one year conditional sentence. In other words if she keeps her nose clean for a year all charges will be null and void with no criminal record. That seems to be quite a far cry from "1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated".

[jbg]

Montreal of course, is French! <gallic, expressive shrug>

My first Hebrew school teacher was a lovely lady from Montreal who spoke English quite well. I doubt she spoke French. She taught me in academic 1967-68.

[White Doors]

The long gun registry was never demanded by cities and those who live in cities were never asked their opinion anyway. The Liberals just did it!

You may be confused by mistaking Toronto and Montreal for cities. Toronto is not a city. It is a strange planet peopled by aliens that have absolutely nothing in culture or values in common with the rest of Ontario, Canada or the rest of Earth, for that matter.

Montreal of course, is French! <gallic, expressive shrug>

My mistake, how silly of me not to know that Montreal and Toronto are not cities..

Now can you tell David Miller that so he can stop demanding a handgun 'ban'?

thank you

[Wild Bill]

My mistake, how silly of me not to know that Montreal and Toronto are not cities..

Now can you tell David Miller that so he can stop demanding a handgun 'ban'?

thank you

'Fraid not! Miller is a socialist mayor and as such is congenitally incapable of speaking in anything but demands of other levels of government to fix his problems.

We Ontario citizens who do not live on his Toronto planet apparently are here to pay tribute to the feds, so that they in turn can funnel the money back to David. Apparently this is to compensate them for providing all the cultural venues like Buddies in Bad Times Theatre that are available to us plebes, who never go to Toronto and would never attend anyway.

Westerners often don't realize that they way they often feel towards Ontario is actually the way the rest of Ontario feels toward Toronto, for similar reasons. Toronto has enough seats to offer to get politicians to kiss it's butt. The rest of us resent it but there's nothing we can do about it. That's probably why we have what's referred to as the "905 vs. 416 split", which really refers to how a party can win Toronto or win the rest of the province but could never win both.

[DrGreenthumb]

Gary Doer in Manitoba isn't NDP? I guess as an American I don't understand these things.

Also, Bob Rae in ON and Glen Clark in BC, from what I hear, had less than stellar economic records.

Gary Doer has run balanced budgets every year since 1999 when they took over from the conservatives who had tanked our economy to the point that practically everybody under 30 was headed for Alberta. Gary Doer has done such a good job here in Manitoba that he has been given a bigger majority in every one of the last 3 elections. Manitoba is a great place to be thanks to the NDP. Our housing is among the most affordable in the country, there are plenty of good paying jobs, and we havn't had to sell off any more publicly owned companies since we booted Filmon and his Tory thieves out of office. Every year since 99 we have had more people coming to Manitoba than leaving.

[DrGreenthumb]

This is another rant that I hear all the time lately, yet I've never seen any proof at all of this. Is there any proof that can be shown?

The reality would appear to be the opposite in fact. Just recently a young woman I know was busted with a 1/4 lb of weed, a set of scales and about $600 or $700 dollars. She was given a one year conditional sentence. In other words if she keeps her nose clean for a year all charges will be null and void with no criminal record. That seems to be quite a far cry from "1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated".

The "reality" is that C-26 is not law YET. Hopefully the fascist government will fall before that happens. The REALITY is that arrests for possession of cannabis have risen by an average of 30% across the country since the AuthoriTORYans took over. The REALITY is that when c-26 becomes law a LOT of NON-CRIMINALS will be filling up our jails at the taxpayers great expense.

There is no reason to increase penalties and punishments for using Cannabis which is relatively harmless, especially when we allow people to use much more dangerous and addictive things like alcohol and tobacco.

Its time we threw Harper out on his fat stupid ass. In fact his level of fatness is more of a burden on our health care system than my pot smoking ever could be.

Edited May 6, 2008 by DrGreenthumb

[Drea]

This is another rant that I hear all the time lately, yet I've never seen any proof at all of this. Is there any proof that can be shown?

The reality would appear to be the opposite in fact. Just recently a young woman I know was busted with a 1/4 lb of weed, a set of scales and about $600 or $700 dollars. She was given a one year conditional sentence. In other words if she keeps her nose clean for a year all charges will be null and void with no criminal record. That seems to be quite a far cry from "1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated".

She now has a criminal record.

A criminal record for no reason other than ... geez I cannot even think of ONE logical reason to stop people from enjoying weed.

The rightwing wants to control individual behaviour -- whether or not it affects other persons. (marijuana laws, abortion, ssm)

The leftwing wants to control individual behaviour that has a negative affect on other persons. (smoking in cars, leaving babies unattended etc. )

The right could care less if a child falls out of the back of an old Ford pickup on a dirt road while holding a loaded 30-30... but be damned if some hippy is going to smoke a jay.

[M.Dancer]

The "reality" is that C-26 is not law YET. Hopefully the fascist government will fall before that happens. The REALITY is that arrests for possession of cannabis have risen by an average of 30% across the country since the AuthoriTORYans took over. The REALITY is that when c-26 becomes law a LOT of NON-CRIMINALS will be filling up our jails at the taxpayers great expense.

There is no reason to increase penalties and punishments for using Cannabis which is relatively harmless, especially when we allow people to use much more dangerous and addictive things like alcohol and tobacco.

Its time we threw Harper out on his fat stupid ass. In fact his level of fatness is more of a burden on our health care system than my pot smoking ever could be.

[M.Dancer]

The "reality" is that C-26 is not law YET. Hopefully the fascist government will fall before that happens. The REALITY is that arrests for possession of cannabis have risen by an average of 30% across the country since the AuthoriTORYans took over. The REALITY is that when c-26 becomes law a LOT of NON-CRIMINALS will be filling up our jails at the taxpayers great expense.

There is no reason to increase penalties and punishments for using Cannabis which is relatively harmless, especially when we allow people to use much more dangerous and addictive things like alcohol and tobacco.

Its time we threw Harper out on his fat stupid ass. In fact his level of fatness is more of a burden on our health care system than my pot smoking ever could be.

looks like someone has been dusting their stash with angel dust

Edited May 6, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Drea]

looks like someone has been dusting their stash with angel dust

Looks like you had a liquid (but it's legal!!) lunch there Dancer... usually people delete their double posts, unless they are too drunk to notice

[guyser]

The right could care less if a child falls out of the back of an old Ford pickup on a dirt road

Thats true.

But neither would the left care, nor the police.

It is legal to ride in the back of a pick up. In fact you could cram 12 kids in there and no one could do a damn thing.

So much for that.

[BubberMiley]

Why has Saskatchewan been losing population and economic activity at a steady clip until recently? The "Brad Wall" effect seems to have turned things around, fortunately.

When are you going to admit you're a conservative? You have enough innaccurate data to qualify as one. Saskatchewan enjoyed tremendous growth and went from a have-not to a have province under the NDP.

[Drea]

Thats true.

But neither would the left care, nor the police.

It is legal to ride in the back of a pick up. In fact you could cram 12 kids in there and no one could do a damn thing.

So much for that.

It's stupid as hell, but it's legal so it's okay?

Smoking a jay after work or on the weekend at the cabin... why should that be considered a crime?

[Wilber]

It is legal to ride in the back of a pick up. In fact you could cram 12 kids in there and no one could do a damn thing.

Not legal in BC.

[BubberMiley]

Not legal in BC.

Doesn't that make it hard to move the fruitpickers?

[jbg]

The right could care less if a child falls out of the back of an old Ford pickup on a dirt road while holding a loaded 30-30... but be damned if some hippy is going to smoke a jay.

What right-winger (though I'm not one) has ever advocated chidlren falling out of trucks.

[jbg]

When are you going to admit you're a conservative? You have enough innaccurate data to qualify as one. Saskatchewan enjoyed tremendous growth and went from a have-not to a have province under the NDP.

I am not a conservative. I am a registered Democrat.

[WIP]

Sifting through this thread, I haven't noticed anyone since page 2 bring up the costs of prohibition. And for me, this is the most important issue. Is marijuana enough of a danger to society to justify the costs of drug enforcement, incarceration, and the unintended problem of enriching organized crime syndicates? So far I haven't seen convincing evidence that would justify the present drug policies, and I would argue that even the hard drugs that everyone agrees are too dangerous to legalize, would be better fought if drug addiction was treated as a health problem instead of a crime and punishment issue.

[Wilber]

Sifting through this thread, I haven't noticed anyone since page 2 bring up the costs of prohibition. And for me, this is the most important issue. Is marijuana enough of a danger to society to justify the costs of drug enforcement, incarceration, and the unintended problem of enriching organized crime syndicates? So far I haven't seen convincing evidence that would justify the present drug policies, and I would argue that even the hard drugs that everyone agrees are too dangerous to legalize, would be better fought if drug addiction was treated as a health problem instead of a crime and punishment issue.

Taken on its own I would tend to agree with you but as a majority of pot production is exported, legalization in Canada alone is unlikely to remove organized crime from the picture. With drugs such as heroin, crack cocaine and crystal meth, legalization is out of the question so enforcement for the suppliers and treatment for the addicted are the only real options.

[WIP]

Taken on its own I would tend to agree with you but as a majority of pot production is exported, legalization in Canada alone is unlikely to remove organized crime from the picture. With drugs such as heroin, crack cocaine and crystal meth, legalization is out of the question so enforcement for the suppliers and treatment for the addicted are the only real options.

Probably true. I was thinking more along the lines of what would be ideal rather than what is presently practical. As long as marijuana is illegal in the U.S., it's not feasible to legalize it in Canada without having organized crime involved in getting the drug to the U.S. market.

There is historical precedent here also. During the alcohol prohibition era, Ontario repealed the prohibition laws in 1927, six years before alcohol became legal again in America. Al Capone and other rum-runners had a thriving business in making sure the product got to U.S. markets. http://library.thinkquest.org/28892/crimes/al_capone.htm

Edited May 7, 2008 by WIP