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Posted
Yes, children are dying and people are being killed. Does that mean the children shouldn't have any fun in their lives? 'Sorry kids, people are dying, so no fun for you!' You truly believe Iraqi children are better of without any fun in their lives?

Yes I know heard a program the other day on New Orleans, guess what the powers that be had no idea all those people were there with no transport out of the city. Just ignore the poor and destititue aye.

Posted
Yes, children are dying and people are being killed. Does that mean the children shouldn't have any fun in their lives? 'Sorry kids, people are dying, so no fun for you!' You truly believe Iraqi children are better of without any fun in their lives?

Yes I know heard a program the other day on New Orleans, guess what the powers that be had no idea all those people were there with no transport out of the city. Just ignore the poor and destititue aye.

Posted
Um, the theme park isn't being funded by the U.S. Government or the U.S. military. It's not as though they're choosing the theme park over water, food, or security. So you're wrong on that point.

And the Iraqi's can approve or disapprove of this development through their participation. If no one attends the theme park, it won't be open long, and can go back to being a parking lot, or whatever the land is used for now.

Also, you're forgetting about the jobs this development will create. There will probably be construction jobs as a result, as well as the fact that people have to be hired to run the park when it's completed. So, jobs for Iraqi's.

If the prerequisite to theme parks in a city or country was the taming of hunger, water, and security, then there wouldn't be theme parks anywhere in the world.

The big picture is that Iraq is going to enjoy some foreign investment. If more investment in other industries follows, then the lives of Iraqi's can improve dramatically.

On the news last night, there are more American private companies and entreprenours in Iraqu than there are Army personal

Guest American Woman
Posted (edited)
QUOTE=American Woman:

Yes, children are dying and people are being killed. Does that mean the children shouldn't have any fun in their lives? 'Sorry kids, people are dying, so no fun for you!' You truly believe Iraqi children are better of without any fun in their lives?

Yes I know heard a program the other day on New Orleans, guess what the powers that be had no idea all those people were there with no transport out of the city. Just ignore the poor and destititue aye.

:huh:

So is your response that Iraqi children shouldn't have any fun in their lives; that they'd be better off without it?

Another question. Would the powers that be have known about all those people in New Orleans with no transport out of the city if Walt Disney hadn't built Disney World and Disney Land? I just don't see the connection....

Edited by American Woman
Posted
Yes I know heard a program the other day on New Orleans, guess what the powers that be had no idea all those people were there with no transport out of the city. Just ignore the poor and destititue aye.

Margrace, are you a pirate?

arrgghh matey!

Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.

~blueblood~

Posted
Margrace, are you a pirate?

arrgghh matey!

Hey now! Theres only one of those around here that I know of, and that would be...ME...Yay!

Right now I'm sitting here wearing my pirate pants, gonna be doing my pirate dance soon.

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Posted
:huh:

So is your response that Iraqi children shouldn't have any fun in their lives; that they'd be better off without it?

Another question. Would the powers that be have known about all those people in New Orleans with no transport out of the city if Walt Disney hadn't built Disney World and Disney Land? I just don't see the connection....

I have become very suspect of Disney type spending in other countries. What I see is a promotion of the American way of life, when the real American is hidden as it was in New Orleans. Wouldn't it be better to see that all children are well fed and cared for instead of flaunting our wastes. And don't think that Canada isn't just as bad in this.

Posted
I have become very suspect of Disney type spending in other countries. What I see is a promotion of the American way of life, when the real American is hidden as it was in New Orleans. Wouldn't it be better to see that all children are well fed and cared for instead of flaunting our wastes. And don't think that Canada isn't just as bad in this.

Well some people feel life is worth celebrating margrace. Because you don't doesn't mean that you have to begrudge others that do.

Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.

~blueblood~

Posted
Could you give an example of a destroyed city? That seems pretty extreme.

It is pretty extreme. Fallujah had a population of about 600 000 before the US assaulted the city, now there's over 100 000 people living there. Most of the city is ruble.

36 000 of the 50 000 homes were destroyed along with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines.

I'd call that destruction myself.

------------------------------------------------

An evil petting zoo?

---Dr Evil to Scott Evil

Posted

This question leaves me with mixed thoughts. On the one hand there is the visceral reaction, the instinct to just say "thats wrong, because of all the conflict and fighting".

On the other hand there are also positives attached to the issue. It will be a major project that will span a number of years. There will of course be a lot of western contractors, there will also be a lot of local hires, not just to run the place but for the actual construction. It will also generate spin off employment in the community and also most likely a good portion of the nation. Things such as food suppliers, busineses contracted to provide services and goods, that sort of thing.

Last but not least it will benefit the children. Once again this wont just be in the park itself, but also in the community. No matter how much anyone loathes western ways its pretty hard to find fault with Donald Duck (except for his sense of style) and Mickey Mouse. Its my opinion that both of the above set a far better example than Fisel the killer mouse does.

So, all in all I believe this could be a positive initiative when weighed in the balance.

I yam what I yam - Popeye

Posted (edited)
It is pretty extreme. Fallujah had a population of about 600 000 before the US assaulted the city, now there's over 100 000 people living there. Most of the city is ruble.

36 000 of the 50 000 homes were destroyed along with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines.

I'd call that destruction myself.

Hardly destroyed. We have wee tools these days to help us prove that Fallujah hasn't been "destroyed". Although, it is such a dusty hole that casual observers might think the chaos is all a result of combat.

Stalingrad was destroyed...

-----------------------------------

Every act of creation is first of all an act of destruction.

---Pablo Picasso

Edited by DogOnPorch
Guest American Woman
Posted
I have become very suspect of Disney type spending in other countries. What I see is a promotion of the American way of life, when the real American is hidden as it was in New Orleans. Wouldn't it be better to see that all children are well fed and cared for instead of flaunting our wastes. And don't think that Canada isn't just as bad in this.

It seems you're either unable or unwilling to answer the question(s).

As for the theme park being "a promotion of the American way of life," I hardly see it as "promoting" it, any more than Muslims coming from the Middle East are "promoting" their way of life when they emigrate to our countries and build Mosques. But if they can bring their culture to our countries, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to bring our culture to theirs. Seems to me it's a two-way street.

Now about New Orleans being "the real American." Where is that coming from? New Orleans isn't the real America any more than Hollywood is, or the Bible belt, or the big city, or rural America; they are all part of the whole, we are all part of the whole, with New Orleans being a small part of the "real America."

As for it being better to see that all children are well fed and cared for, all children in our nations aren't well fed and cared for, yet we have fun. We go to amusement parks. If Iraqi children aren't allowed to have fun because of the problems you mention, no children anywhere should have fun. It's as simple as that.

I brought up the Make-A-Wish foundation for a reason. They help families who are strapped with medical bills do something fun. They don't say 'it would be better to see that all families' medical bills are paid,' and the families benifitting from the foundation aren't saying they should be paying their medical bills instead; they are thrilled for the chance to have some fun. I'm curious. Do you disagree with the Make-A-Wish foundation?

This is an interesting article because even though it's not about this park, it's about how Iraqis feel about the chance to have some fun: Ignoring the Violence, if Only for a While

(excerpts):

BAGHDAD -- Hand in hand, Muhanned Mahmoud and his wife led their two children into Fun City, one of the few amusement parks in Baghdad where people can go to spend the afternoon. The children approached the entrance, gazing at the giant, inflatable toys there.

"Look at them!" Ahmed, 11, said to his younger brother. The children pulled their hands from their parents' grip and disappeared in the crowd.

"Go ahead and forget about the outside world," Mahmoud said with a big smile on his face.

"We should feel normal," Qasim said. "We should act normal, at least for the kids' sake."

In Rayhana, another amusement park in eastern Baghdad, Rabab Jammo, 35, sat watching her niece Fabiana and nephew Omar play on a swing set. After Fabiana finished school, Jammo said, the girl asked Jammo to take her out because she had not left the house for seven months except to go to school. Jammo's mother forbade the trip at first, but after a week she changed her mind.

"We cannot deprive the children of their childhood," Jammo said. "Life should continue."

Posted
I have become very suspect of Disney type spending in other countries. What I see is a promotion of the American way of life, when the real American is hidden as it was in New Orleans. Wouldn't it be better to see that all children are well fed and cared for instead of flaunting our wastes. And don't think that Canada isn't just as bad in this.

Stupification or nations is headed now by Disney - look at the actual mentality of the typical liberal kid in Canada..thanks to the Disney crap - they think dogs can talk...NOW we have those kids as adults who grant human rights to dogs and deny they to people...I guess Dream Works and Speilburg should team up with the social engineers at Disney - after all - with movies about the belief in little green men from outerspace and the talking dogs from Disney - They should be able to debase and dummy down all of Iraq in one generation..what every happened to reality? With out reality there will be constant on going warfare and suffering and a lack of universal justice...as Pontius Pilate said "what is truth" - he meant what is reality...he asked the question because he did not know what was real - and as far as progress...more talking dogs are in store for what are now human talking dogs...Disney is no longer funny - they are debasers of humanity under the guise of goodness and childish fun....oh well!

Posted
Stupification or nations is headed now by Disney - look at the actual mentality of the typical liberal kid in Canada..thanks to the Disney crap - they think dogs can talk...NOW we have those kids as adults who grant human rights to dogs and deny they to people...I guess Dream Works and Speilburg should team up with the social engineers at Disney - after all - with movies about the belief in little green men from outerspace and the talking dogs from Disney - They should be able to debase and dummy down all of Iraq in one generation..what every happened to reality? With out reality there will be constant on going warfare and suffering and a lack of universal justice...as Pontius Pilate said "what is truth" - he meant what is reality...he asked the question because he did not know what was real - and as far as progress...more talking dogs are in store for what are now human talking dogs...Disney is no longer funny - they are debasers of humanity under the guise of goodness and childish fun....oh well!

And you wanted to admonish me because I wrote "yup thanks" ? After reading this all I could think of was....

what every happened to reality?

Indeed.

Kids think dogs can talk?

Dogs have rights that humans dont?

Yup, well.....thanks. Back to quote #2

Posted
Hardly destroyed. We have wee tools these days to help us prove that Fallujah hasn't been "destroyed". Although, it is such a dusty hole that casual observers might think the chaos is all a result of combat.

You do realize that just because it says "copyright google 2008" at the bottom, that doesn't mean the photographs are up to date as of 2008. My house is five years old but until 6 months ago it was an empty lot on google maps.

Posted (edited)
You do realize that just because it says "copyright google 2008" at the bottom, that doesn't mean the photographs are up to date as of 2008. My house is five years old but until 6 months ago it was an empty lot on google maps.

Thanks for the tip...lol.

I tried to find when it was taken but was unsuccessful...

During the battle, I didn't have access to this level of detail seen on Google Maps. If this imagery was around, I didn't see it. I suspect like much of Google Maps, it came out with high res imagery after the fact. Like, who was interested in Fallujah before the battle? Who had even heard of it?

You're also going by the word of Ali al-Fadhily, the 'other reporter' in Fallujah during the battle. His wild claims of massive destruction were just that. Michael Totten was the other, and he's come out against al-Fadhily's claims of '70% destruction'. Sort of like using Pallywood's claims as 'the truth' rather than the US military's version. Both have their agendas. But no worries...you will believe who you like.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/in...php/totten/1594

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/10/usa.iraq

Most telling are the general lack of photos showing this wide spread destruction. Any photos of these 65 mosques...or baby milk factories...or toddler's schools or whatever? Online I can find the odd leveled house and other rather isolated damage. It makes me think that the damage has been somewhat exagerated to put the US military in a poor light which certainly can be expected from the likes of Mr al-Fadhily.

But, casualty figure for Fallujah are as such...

U.S.:

95 killed, 560 wounded

Iraqi:

11 killed, 43 wounded

Enemy:

1,350+ killed (U.S. est.)

1,500 captured

4,000 to 6,000 civilians killed (estimate by Iraqi NGOs and medical workers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Phantom_Fury

Stalingrad...

German:

740,000 killed or wounded

110,000 captured

Aircraft: 900 (including 274 Transports and 165 Bombers used as Transports)

Soviet:

750,000 killed, wounded or captured,

40,000+ civilian dead

Aircraft: 2,846

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

Now, I'd call that destruction, myself...

--------------------------------------------------

Iraqi people do not speak of improvement. They do not see it; they see only that these claims have become important for the U.S. elections.

---Ali al-Fadhily

Edited by DogOnPorch
Posted
It seems you're either unable or unwilling to answer the question(s).

As for the theme park being "a promotion of the American way of life," I hardly see it as "promoting" it, any more than Muslims coming from the Middle East are "promoting" their way of life when they emigrate to our countries and build Mosques. But if they can bring their culture to our countries, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to bring our culture to theirs. Seems to me it's a two-way street.

huge difference between a few immigrants banding together and building a mosque, as compared to foreign occupation force( Iraq invaded and occupied by a country, that holds all the cards in Iraq!!!!!)

why people insist on apples and oranges comparison is beyond me?

It reeks of America promoting it's way of life on people of another country, because while the US is occupying Iraq against the will of vast swathes of the population, that is exactly how it appears.

here is a link to some information on what the kids in Iraq have to put up with on a day to day basis in their occupied nation.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008...q_not_met/4094/

Basic needs of children in Iraq are not being met and they're also suffering from high levels of violence, a U.N. children's representative said.

"'It is an intolerable situation," said Radhika Coomaraswamy, U.N. special representative for children

and armed conflict, who spent five days in Iraq investigating the matter, UNICEF reported in a news release.

Just 50 percent of Iraqi primary school-age students in Iraq attending school, she said, while only 40 percent of the children have access to safe drinking water.

Besides exposure to violence, many children are being recruited into armed groups, Coomaraswamy said.

They don't need a park , nor are they going to benefit from this park. In a country under a brutal occupation, where only 40 percent of kids have access to safe drinking water, this is the furthest thing on their or their parents minds.

how absurd!

Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).

Posted
Hardly destroyed. We have wee tools these days to help us prove that Fallujah hasn't been "destroyed". Although, it is such a dusty hole that casual observers might think the chaos is all a result of combat.

Stalingrad was destroyed...

-----------------------------------

Every act of creation is first of all an act of destruction.

---Pablo Picasso

The fact that the US bombed the hell out of the city and women and children were killed just to kill the terrorists from the air and those bombs were the type that would cause your skin to burn. The doctors weren't allowed in, until the US military had a chance to clear up the city. Just another of Bush's secrets.

Posted
The fact that the US bombed the hell out of the city and women and children were killed just to kill the terrorists from the air and those bombs were the type that would cause your skin to burn. The doctors weren't allowed in, until the US military had a chance to clear up the city. Just another of Bush's secrets.

Nowhere am I saying that the Battle of Fallujah didn't occur...just that 70% destruction is like Stalingrad or Berlin levels of carnage. If you believe the one reporter...then 70% it is. The other one...a lot less. You be the judge according to your wishes. Just be aware...as I am...that wishes don't always pan-out into reality. There were nowhere near the troop levels of Stalingrad or Berlin involved. Thousands as compared to millions. As far as battles go, the American Civil War had battles where more people became casualties in a single minute than all of the casualties from the month long brawl at Fallujah. Antietam, for example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antietam

So...context. All battles are not created equal.

The 'type that causes skin to burn' is, infact, White Phosphorus...aka Willy Pete amoungst other things. Mainly used for creating smoke screens. In Fallujah, WP would be used to 'smoke out' the enemy where the real nasty stuff...HE or 'High Explosive' would be used to tear them to bits. WP is not overly toxic...but you can't remain inside the cloud for any great length of time much like any smoke. WP is very hard to put out and can...as you mention...burn things. However, it is really meant for use near and around your own forces. So as far as weapons go...I'd rather a WP round land near me than an HE. They can make very dramatic explosions though...much like a huge firework.

See video for example:

-----------------------------------------

I hear it said that West Berlin is militarily untenable - and so was Bastogne, and so, in fact, was Stalingrad. Any danger spot is tenable if men - brave men - will make it so.

---JFK

Posted
This question leaves me with mixed thoughts. On the one hand there is the visceral reaction, the instinct to just say "thats wrong, because of all the conflict and fighting".

On the other hand there are also positives attached to the issue. It will be a major project that will span a number of years. There will of course be a lot of western contractors, there will also be a lot of local hires, not just to run the place but for the actual construction. It will also generate spin off employment in the community and also most likely a good portion of the nation. Things such as food suppliers, busineses contracted to provide services and goods, that sort of thing.

Last but not least it will benefit the children. Once again this wont just be in the park itself, but also in the community. No matter how much anyone loathes western ways its pretty hard to find fault with Donald Duck (except for his sense of style) and Mickey Mouse. Its my opinion that both of the above set a far better example than Fisel the killer mouse does.

So, all in all I believe this could be a positive initiative when weighed in the balance.

I hate to interrupt the fun and frivolity of celebrating the opening of "Disneyland Baghdad", but it's already been pointed out that putting a theme park in Iraq does not mean the war was a good idea! The destruction, thousands killed, the ensuing refugee crisis, have already been mentioned, but I'd also like to add that the biggest success of the American Invasion has been to turn a secular dictatorship into an Islamic theocracy. The new constitution makes all government decisions and laws subject to being overruled by the clerics:

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

That provision can annul all of the flowery rhetoric about equality and democracy in this document. After spending one to three trillion dollars to turn Iraq into a MiddleEast version of West Germany, the constitution lays the groundwork for Islamification that is already underway.

This little item near the end got my attention. What exactly do they mean by "martyrs"?

CHAPTER TWO: TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS

Article 128:

First: The State guarantee care for political prisoners and victims of the oppressive practices of the defunct dictatorial regime.

Second: The State guarantees compensation to the families of the martyrs and those injured due to terrorist acts.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9719734/

But the surest sign that the Bush Plan has turned Iraq into another Saudi Arabia is the presence of "honour killings" going on without being prosecuted by the Iraqi police who have been trained and armed with American dollars.

This tragic article about a 17 year old girl in Basra, who was murdered by her father, because he suspected her of having a romantic interest in a British soldier she worked with at an aid center, is just one of 47 honour killings of women in Basra alone, and only three of them have resulted in criminal charges against the perpetrators!

It was an innocent infatuation but five months after Rand, a student of English at Basra University, met Paul, a 22-year-old soldier posted to southern Iraq, she was dead. She was stamped on, suffocated and stabbed by her father. Several brutal knife wounds punctured her slender, bruised body - from her face to her feet. He had done it, he proclaimed to the neighbours who soon gathered round, to 'cleanse his honour'.

And as Rand was put into the ground, without ceremony, her uncles spat on her covered corpse because she had brought shame on the family. Her crime was the worst they could possibly imagine - she had fallen in love with a British soldier and dared to talk to him in public.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/27/iraq.military1

So, how many honour killings can we expect at Disneyland Baghdad if a girl gets caught looking at a boy by her male family members? Or, will the new theme park be restricted to males only to ensure female chastity?

Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist.

-- Kenneth Boulding,

1973

Guest American Woman
Posted (edited)
huge difference between a few immigrants banding together and building a mosque, as compared to foreign occupation force( Iraq invaded and occupied by a country, that holds all the cards in Iraq!!!!!)

why people insist on apples and oranges comparison is beyond me?

Comparing Muslims bringing some of their culture to our country and us bringing some of our culture to theirs is not "comparing apples to oranges," especially since I was referring to one theme park. That's the topic of this thread in case you've forgotten; but it seems as if 'theme park' has suddenly become "a foreign occupation force." Talk about comparing apples to oranges!! Comparing a private corporation building one theme park to foreign occupation force( Iraq invaded and occupied by a country, that holds all the cards in Iraq!!!!!) is ludicrous. You do realize there's a "huge difference" between the U.S. government/military and a private corporation, right?

It reeks of America promoting it's way of life on people of another country, because while the US is occupying Iraq against the will of vast swathes of the population, that is exactly how it appears.

How is a theme park synonymous with "America's way of life?" I cited an article about theme parks in Iraq, and not only did Iraq have theme parks before the war, it seems Iraqis are happy to have a place to bring their kids for a bit of normal life.

But you do realize this is the project of one corporation, right? It's not "America" building a theme park. (I'm wondering if that statement requires half a dozen exclamation points :rolleyes: ) It has nothing to do with the government or the military or Americans as a nation.

here is a link to some information on what the kids in Iraq have to put up with on a day to day basis in their occupied nation.

Has anything I've said led you to believe that I don't know what kids in Iraq have to put up with on a day to day basis? The answer would be "no." (!!!!!) I've compared it to terminally ill children, who have to put up with quite a bit in their daily lives, being thrilled to be granted a trip to Disney World by the make-a-wish foundation. For some reason that seems to be ignored in this thread, most likely because it's not refutable. I've also quoted actual Iraqi parents, who realize all too well what their children have to put up with on a day to day basis, who say their kids still need to have fun, that they still need to be kids.

They don't need a park , nor are they going to benefit from this park. In a country under a brutal occupation, where only 40 percent of kids have access to safe drinking water, this is the furthest thing on their or their parents minds.

how absurd!

What's absurd is your inability to get past the idea that because there are bad things going on in Iraq, Iraqi kids have "no need" for a park, which translates to "no need" for fun. Perhaps you should tell the parents quoted in the article that it's "absurd" for them to be taking their kids out for at least a temporary escape from reality; or perhaps you could tell the children who were having fun that they shouldn't be. Or perhaps you could just refrain for speaking for them, because you don't have a clue as to whether or not "this is the furthest thing on their ... minds."

Edited by American Woman
Posted (edited)

excuse me this theme park is being built while Iraq is under foreign occupation and has nothing to do with immigrants banding together to build a mosque.

The comparison is absurd.

Have you asked yourself, who's property this is?

Likely not.

Does it belong to Iraqi's who are now dead or displaced?

If it does, is any effort being made to identify who's property it is?

Or Is it being pilfered by the occupying force, to allow for more wartime profiteering?

Like so much of Iraq's assets.

what is equally absurd is that you think the kids will benefit from the park, it is a for profit park, it is not charity.

The only thing the kids are getting is free skateboards.

The abuse towards posters , admonishing them for allegedly not wanting Iraqi kids to have fun, is a total and shameful use of a strawman. Used to make people feel bad or guilty for having the opinion they do.

I think the Iraqi kids are entitled to all the fun they can get, how about getting their schools rebuilt, so they can have fun with their friends, how about some clean water, so they do not have to live in filth, how about sewage systems, can you bring back their dead family members, I bet that would make a great many of them happy, how about some arms and legs for the limbs many of them have lost.

This park has nothing to do with making Iraqi kids lives better, unless one is being wilfully blind.

Edited by kuzadd

Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).

Posted
Or perhaps you could just refrain for speaking for them, because you don't have a clue as to whether or not "this is the furthest thing on their ... minds."

Yet you think it is perfectly ok, for you to speak for them, right?

Just like the American/British government did, speak for them, decide for them, kill them, what the heck eh?

I have common sense, and that common sense tells me if I had to chose between clean water necessary for survival, and disease prevention and health, I would chose clean water. Most people would chose the NECESSITIES of life for their kids. Not a theme park!

But apparently you would forgo clean water, to stand on the outside of a theme park you wouldn't be able to afford to get into?

whatever floats your boat?

Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).

Posted
kuzadd: Have you asked yourself, who's property this is?

Likely not.

Does it belong to Iraqi's who are now dead or displaced?

If it does, is any effort being made to identify who's property it is?

Or Is it being pilfered by the occupying force, to allow for more wartime profiteering?

Like so much of Iraq's assets.

Try reading your own article...it's part of al-Zawra park.

The 50-acre (20 hectare) swath of land sits adjacent to the Green Zone and encompasses Baghdad’s existing zoo, which was looted, left without power and abandoned after the American-led invasion in 2003. Only 35 of 700 animals survived – some starved, some were stolen and some were killed by Iraqis fearing food shortages.

In the years that followed, the zoo and the surrounding al-Zawra park became an occasional target for insurgent attacks. But in recent months, families have begun to return cautiously for weekend picnics. Renovations have already begun on the zoo, with cages being repainted and new animals arriving, including ostriches, bears and a lion.

---------------------------------

We come from the land of the ice and snow,

from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.

The hammer of the gods

Will drive our ships to new lands,

To fight the horde, singing and crying:

Valhalla, I am coming!

---Led Zeppelin

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