Tory MP claims his fingernails are clean

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

It's like we just can't win. I'd like to see a poll taken next Monday on Conservative support after this.

I don't think it will hurt the Conservatives. Those who are offended by such comments tend not to vote for Harper anyway.

It could even boost support for Lukiwski among Conservatives. After Harper made on-the-record homophobic comments in the House of Commons, he became leader of the Conservative Party of Canada.

MontyBurns · April 4, 2008

I don't think it will hurt the Conservatives. Those who are offended by such comments tend not to vote for Harper anyway.
It could even boost support for Lukiwski among Conservatives. After Harper made on-the-record homophobic comments in the House of Commons, he became leader of the Conservative Party of Canada.

Homophobia is still rampant among the general population. Maybe not on this board, but a lot of the general population is homophobic even if they say that they aren't. It's just human nature to fear things outside of the norm.

mikedavid00 · April 4, 2008

Finally, a Conservative supporter who believes that Harper should step down for the homophobic comments he made in the House of Commons in 2002. That is what you're saying, right?

No.

It's not about what he said. I believe they can hold whatever thoughts they want.

It's about the wacko left and our media looking for any excuse they can to downgrade the reputation fo the party.

Imagine that tape gets used in a smear campaign during elections.. it's just not good. Tom needs to step down. If not harper should give him 24 hours.

BubberMiley · April 4, 2008

Homophobia is still rampant among the general population. Maybe not on this board, but a lot of the general population is homophobic even if they say that they aren't. It's just human nature to fear things outside of the norm.

Are you trying to normalize your own feelings?

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

Homophobia is still rampant among the general population. Maybe not on this board, but a lot of the general population is homophobic even if they say that they aren't.

So do you think that Harper's own homophobic comments 6 years ago and Lukiwski's 16 years ago will be a vote getter in the next election given the homophobia prevalence rate? Should the Conservatives campaign next time on a platform of overt rather than covert bigotry?

It does appear that not a single Conservative supporter on this board had a problem with Harper's comments but I doubt that's why they're supporting him.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

Tom needs to step down. If not harper should give him 24 hours.

Why does Tom need to step down for homophobic comments he made 16 years and Stephen does not need to step down for homophobic comments he made 6 years ago?

jdobbin · April 4, 2008

I think that beating up people ought to be a crime, no matter the reason. If the Liberals hadn't done their very best to prevent such violent people from being punished over the past twenty five years it would be hard for even you to justify a unique crime for beating up gays.

So you believe that all hate crime legislation should be eliminated because there are laws against beating people up?

MontyBurns · April 4, 2008

So do you think that Harper's own homophobic comments 6 years ago and Lukiwski's 16 years ago will be a vote getter in the next election given the homophobia prevalence rate? Should the Conservatives campaign next time on a platform of overt rather than covert bigotry?

No they shouldn't campaign on it. I'm just saying that everyone has biases including the "tolerant" left. No matter how much the left harps on it, bigotry and homophobia are just beneath the surface. It's just human nature like I said.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

I'm just saying that everyone has biases including the "tolerant" left.

I agree that everyone has biases. Would you say that Harper, since he made a homophobic comment in Parliament, is no more homophobic than any other MP in Parliament? Or would you say that's he's just more honest in expressing his feelings?

How about social conservatives? Would you say that they are more biased against homosexuals?

M.Dancer · April 4, 2008

What was this homophobic comment?

Vancouver King · April 4, 2008

And one from the Conservatives as well since many of their members supported the same thing?

I think I speak for many Conservatives here when I state categorically that the subject tape has been doctored.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

What was this homophobic comment?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

A homophobic individual would probably not see the comment as homophobic. That Harper subsequently apologized suggests he acknowledged that it was. Alternatively, his apology was bogus and insincere.

MontyBurns · April 4, 2008

I agree that everyone has biases. Would you say that Harper, since he made a homophobic comment in Parliament, is no more homophobic than any other MP in Parliament? Or would you say that's he's just more honest in expressing his feelings?
How about social conservatives? Would you say that they are more biased against homosexuals?

I know many people who are definitely not social conservatives that are VERY homophobic. It's human nature to fear things that are weird. One man bum-blasting another man is plenty weird for most people. I guess every once in a while someone slips up and says what they really feel like this particular MP.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

I know many people who are definitely not social conservatives that are VERY homophobic.

I'm sure there are homophobic people who aren't social conservatives. I never said that homophobia was exclusive to social conservatives.

Would you say that Harper, since he made a homophobic comment in Parliament, is no more homophobic than any other MP in Parliament? Or would you say that's he's just more honest in expressing his feelings.

jazzer · April 4, 2008

What was this homophobic comment?

Heres' one account of it:

Harper was commenting on the ethics of some members of the house of parliament, when he referred to how their "mug shots" might be found in police stations across the country. MP Svend Robinson rose to object to the implication of criminality in Harper's remarks. Harper responded by implying that photographs of Robinson (who is gay) would be found in far more "wonderful" places than a police station.link

Edited April 4, 2008 by jazzer

M.Dancer · April 4, 2008

Heres' one account of it:
Harper was commenting on the ethics of some members of the house of parliament, when he referred to how their "mug shots" might be found in police stations across the country. MP Svend Robinson rose to object to the implication of criminality in Harper's remarks. Harper responded by implying that photographs of Robinson (who is gay) would be found in far more "wonderful" places than a police station.link

Please, the criminal Robinson...rose to object?

That ain't homophobic....not even a mention of his queerness.....

Speaking of fabulous and wonderful places Svend's photo could be found......behind the engagement ring counter of theft conscious jewellery stores everywhere....

MontyBurns · April 4, 2008

I'm sure there are homophobic people who aren't social conservatives. I never said that homophobia was exclusive to social conservatives.
Would you say that Harper, since he made a homophobic comment in Parliament, is no more homophobic than any other MP in Parliament? Or would you say that's he's just more honest in expressing his feelings.

I don't really know. If he is homophobic he certainly isn't going to let on about it after this incident with the MP.

BubberMiley · April 4, 2008

I don't really know. If he is homophobic he certainly isn't going to let on about it after this incident with the MP.

Because then everyone would see how normal he is?

guyser · April 4, 2008

I don't really know. If he is homophobic he certainly isn't going to let on about it after this incident with the MP.

Maybe it is a cover....does he have a wide stance in a bathroom stall?

Alta4ever · April 4, 2008

Tommy Douglas advocated these views in 1933. After a trip to Nazi Germany in 1938, he rejected his former views on eugenics.
If Harper now favours C-250 and lesbians marrying, he's been very quiet about it.

Then again, he's been very quiet about the religious motives on which some of his actions are based:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...96-76f3db32808e

So after 16 years why can't this guy change his stripes?

He has apologized now lets move on.

Hell I bet if a liberal or a dipper had said something like this about christrians it wouldn't have even made the news.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

That ain't homophobic....not even a mention of his queerness.....

Here's Harper nevetheless apologizing:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

scribblet · April 4, 2008

The opposition might be wiser to focus on actual actions and not mere words. I'd rather they reminded Canadians that a mere four years ago Opposition Leader Harper and every single MP in his party voted against making it a hate crime to promote or advocate the killing of gays and lesbians. The legislation passed thanks to the Bloc, NDP and Liberals.
Subsequently, Opposition Leader Harper attempted to prevent lesbians from obtaining Canadian legal rights to marry and as Prime Minister, he attempted, in December 2006, to take away their legal right to marry.

Because he doesn't yet have a majority, he was on the losing side in each of these actions.

Actions speak louder than words.

I don't normally reply to your bull, but you know it was NOT a vote against making it a hate crime to promote or advocate the killing of gays and lesbians, had nothing to do with that at all, and you know it.

You have a propensity to turn nearly all issues into lesbians/marriage; the reason as you've been told numerous times in the past, was because there were no real assurances of freedom of speech on religious grounds which is allready at the mercy of so called 'human rights' tribunals etc. There was and is a genuine fear that the bible will be considered hate speech. We know that anyone speaking out against the redefinition of marriage faces the accusations of 'hate' speech, all of which are really attempts to silence all opposition and dissenting viewpoints.

Harper did not attempt to prevent lesbians from yada yada, he only held a vote on whether or not the issue should be re-opened.

As for Harper's so called 'homophobic remarks', more bull, they were in no way 'homophobic'.

scribblet · April 4, 2008

So after 16 years why can't this guy change his stripes?
He has apologized now lets move on.

Hell I bet if a liberal or a dipper had said something like this about christrians it wouldn't have even made the news.

Exactly!

He can and has, and if Harper or anyone else is still against changing the definition of marriage so what, they and the Liberals who hold the same views are entitled to hold those thoughts, so far, the thought police aren't around (yet). The issue is no longer up for debate, it is only the thought police on here who manage to twist words for political gain.

Harper chooses to keep his beliefs private, so I suppose it's necessary for the fear mongers to make the religious booga boogas up as they go along.

Edited April 4, 2008 by scriblett

Alta4ever · April 4, 2008

Here's Harper nevetheless apologizing:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

Why such smugness, the NDP and liberals have said their share of stupid comments. The left is not morally superiour, its just the arrogance that the left has to think they are.

normanchateau · April 4, 2008

He has apologized now lets move on.

Larry Spencer apologized for his homophobic comment in 2003 but that wasn't good enough for Opposition Leader Harper. Spencer was fired. Why did Harper view homophobic comments as unacceptable then, even after an apology, but not now? Did he so desperately want to become Prime Minister that he viewed Larry Spencer as a stumbling block, or does he no longer view homophobic comments as unacceptable?