Tory MP claims his fingernails are clean

[BubberMiley]

Despite decades of pro-homosexual advocacy in the schools any kid who is openly gay is still subjected to taunting, teasing, and possibly violence. You can only go so far in cultural engineering.

Are you advocating beating up gay kids now?

[BubberMiley]

I guess the gay-agenda isn't working out like they hoped. People are stlll normal after all the cultural engineering.

No, there has been tremendous progress. Your opinions are moving further and further from the mainstream.

Is that what scares you?

[capricorn]

And the right wing continues to believe that free speech means that you can yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

And the left wing thinks nothing of breaking privacy laws by invading the privacy rights of innocent people. Look at the infamous tape. No effort was made to protect the identity of the individuals present at the private gathering who don't hold public office. Why wasn't their privacy protected as required by law? Their faces should have been pixieated to protect their identity. But no. The left was too anxious to hang a Conservative MP for them to even think they are the ones who clearly broke the law. I hope someone sues over this.

[capricorn]

A gay and lesbian support group is calling for an enquiry into homophobia within the Conservative party.

Nathan Seckinger, who's with GBLUR, a gay and lesbian support group based at the University of Regina, said the Tories should use Lukiwski's comments as an opportunity to root out homophobia in the party.

"We appreciate the apologies, but we don't think that an apology would be sufficient and we also don't think a resignation will be sufficient," he said.

"We want a thorough and independent inquiry into the longstanding and pervasive problems of homophobia that have been reported among Conservative Party members."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/...5198001-cp.html

No doubt this idea will find widespread support among opposition parties. It's much more fun than helping govern the country, the fundamental responsibility of an opposition that has integrity.

[jdobbin]

And the left wing thinks nothing of breaking privacy laws by invading the privacy rights of innocent people. Look at the infamous tape. No effort was made to protect the identity of the individuals present at the private gathering who don't hold public office. Why wasn't their privacy protected as required by law? Their faces should have been pixieated to protect their identity. But no. The left was too anxious to hang a Conservative MP for them to even think they are the ones who clearly broke the law. I hope someone sues over this.

What privacy law do you think was broken?

http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_15_e.asp

Just let me know. This is the first time I have heard this argument.

[MontyBurns]

No, there has been tremendous progress. Your opinions are moving further and further from the mainstream.

Homosexuality is outside the norm and always will be. No matter how much the left tries to promote it people will default to being normal. I think people are getting sick of the gay-agenda being constantly thrown in their face.

[MontyBurns]

The "gay agenda" promotes the equal treatment of gays -- not "converting" people (how could a group possibly force you into changing what you find attractive?)

If you are so afraid that you could be easily "converted" by a gay, perhaps you're attracted by someone of the same gender, and that scares you?

One cannot "convert" you to homosexuality in the same way one cannot "convert" you to a different race.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are not choices -- some people are simply attracted to their same gender, some are not. And your problem with this is what again?

The conversion of Canadian society to a gay society has failed. The social experiment is not working because 97% plus of the population is not gay. How stupid is the left to think everybody would go gay? And why do they want everyone to be gay anyway?

[BubberMiley]

The conversion of Canadian society to a gay society has failed. The social experiment is not working because 97% plus of the population is not gay. How stupid is the left to think everybody would go gay? And why do they want everyone to be gay anyway?

I thought it was the right wing that thought people could be converted.

[WIP]

It will be difficult for Harper to do anything other than protect him. When Harper himself made homophobic comments in the House of Commons, he subsequently apologized and considered the case closed:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

Is Harper trying to hide something? He's always struck me as being more than a little effeminate, and the U.S. experience of recently outed gay politicians seems to indicate that they are highly placed in the Republican Party and evangelistic conservative churches. Isn't it odd how often the worst persecutors of homosexuals often turn out to be self-hating homosexuals themselves who have been brainwashed into self-loathing and crave acceptance from the mob by persecuting their own kind? In the States, Mr. "wide stance" Larry Craig apparently had one of the most anti-gay voting records in Congress! If you've ever watched a clip of "God hates fags" preacher Fred Phelps in action, you can't overlook the fact that his style of preaching, not to mention his obsession with this particular sin looks like he's a religious fanatic trying to buy his way to heaven by persecuting other homosexuals!

Canada could use a gay blogger like this one in Washington who outs all of the gay Republicans in Washington, who would rather support their persecutors than demand equal rights and equal treatment under the law. If he included all of the in-the-closet gay evangelists and conservative pundits, the list would be about ten pages long:

the LIST

Operating since July of 2004, telling you the truth about hypocrisy in the gov't.

US Representatives

Rep. Ed Schrock (VA)

Rep. David Dreier (CA)

Rep. James McCrery (LA)

Rep. Mark Foley (FL)

US Senators

Sen Larry Craig (ID)

Senior GOP Staff

Jay Timmons, NRSC

Dan Gurley, RNC

Jay Banning, RNC

Brian Walton, NRSC, RNC

Senior Senate Staffers

Robert Traynham, Santorum

Jonathan Tolman, Inhofe

Kirk Fordham, Martinez

Dirk Smith, Lott

John Reid, Allen

Paul Unger, Allen

Linus Catignani, Frist

Senior House Staffers

Jim Conzelman, Oxley

Lee Cohen, Hart

Robert O'Conner, King

Pete Meachum, Brown-Waite

Bush Staff

Israel Hernandez

Jeff Berkowitz

Local Officials

Vincent Gentile, NYC

Helene Weinstein, NYS Assembly

The rest...

Ed Koch, NYC Mayor

Jennifer Helms-Knox, Judge

Armstrong Williams, Radio host

Matt Drudge, Headline writer

Steve Kreseski, MD Gov.

Chip DiPaula, MD Gov.

Lee LaHaye, CWA

Richard Grennell, U.N.

John Schlafley, Eagle Forum

http://www.blogactive.com/

[Drea]

The conversion of Canadian society to a gay society has failed. The social experiment is not working because 97% plus of the population is not gay. How stupid is the left to think everybody would go gay? And why do they want everyone to be gay anyway?

If only 3% of people are gay, then obviously they are having no effect on your life -- so why are you so vehement towards that small percentage of people?

You must have misunderstood my post -- I said that no one CAN convert a person into a homosexual. Just like you cannot all-of-a-sudden (or even over time) become a black person, you cannot become homosexual just by virtue of their existence.

Do you disagree? Are you afraid that your friends and family (and even yourself) will become "converted homosexuals" if they are allowed to exist as equals in our society?

[WIP]

Homosexuality is outside the norm and always will be. No matter how much the left tries to promote it people will default to being normal. I think people are getting sick of the gay-agenda being constantly thrown in their face.

Being normal means allowing people to live their own lives in the manner that works best for them! And before you get started on deviance, don't give me the crap about bestiality......you know very well that there has always been a minority of every population that has a same-sex orientation. And there is an even larger group that is bisexual to some degree. Your way of forcing people to try to conform to the way of the majority has been tried for thousands of years. Homosexuals have been killed, abused, reviled, ridiculed, driven to suicide, and forced to practise their "sin" privately until modern times. Has it worked?

The claim by fundamentalists of all stripes that homosexuality is a "choice" and therefore a sin committed by their own free will has been repudiated every time one of your conservative Christian closeted gays comes crashing out of the closet! James Dobson's Operation Exodus was a good case in point when their former leader was seen leaving a gay bar and forced to resign by the fundies in charge. http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2008/03/exodu...-alan-chambers/

And FYI, if you ever have a change of heart and move past your knee-jerk need to bash homosexuals, you may be surprised how many people you know, both family and friends are gay and were afraid to tell you!

Edited April 5, 2008 by WIP

[Shakeyhands]

Drea, Dobbin & Bubber, You do realize that you are arguing this with Burns, Argus and Capricorn right?

Why bother? Let the guy say his little apology (solely to save his career) and carry on. Personally I

think its great that Harper and the CPC consider the matter closed. It's going to look great come eletction time. These guys don't see homosexuals as equals, but rather as dirty little perverted bastards that should crawl back in to the closet. You're not going to change any minds here.

[eyeball]

You do realize that you are arguing this with Burns, Argus and Capricorn right?

Ten bucks says one at least one of these guys is gayer than American beer.

Edited April 5, 2008 by eyeball

[WIP]

Drea, Dobbin & Bubber, You do realize that you are arguing this with Burns, Argus and Capricorn right?

Why bother? Let the guy say his little apology (solely to save his career) and carry on. Personally I

think its great that Harper and the CPC consider the matter closed. It's going to look great come eletction time. These guys don't see homosexuals as equals, but rather as dirty little perverted bastards that should crawl back in to the closet. You're not going to change any minds here.

I am interested in knowing what this guy has said in the interim 16 years. I used to do my share of gay-bashing when I thought like these people. Since the time I have changed my outlook, I have gone out of my way to speak up for those that I previously made crass comments about. This politician who puts on a suit and a civil demeanour in public doesn't appear to have anything to say in defense of gays, and I'm betting that he has just been more discreet about expressing his real thoughts about them.

The rednecks at least tell you what they are really thinking and they are the kind of guys who made me give up on the conservative movement. I was a member of the Reform Party when it was first organizing in Ontario, and I didn't catch on to a lot of the racist, anti-French, sexist, homophobic jokes and comments I was hearing. Most of the people were older than me, so I just brushed it off as comments from a bunch of cranky old farts since most of the people were grey haired retirees.

It struck me a couple of years ago when I ventured on to some popular American conservative forums that the yahoos are the ones who are telling it like it is while their polished and proper leaders use code words that outsiders don't clue into the real meaning of: like "illegal immigrants - the substitute for dirty Mexicans taking over our country, and "defense of marriage" - those queers better stay celibate, "blacks need to take advantage of the opportunities offered by this great nation" - blacks are too stupid to crawl their way out of the ghetto..........................the political, media and religious leaders of the conservatives use the code words, but the rank and file say what's really on their minds!

[eyeball]

the political, media and religious leaders of the conservatives use the code words...

Or political correctness as the rank and file would sneeringly put it. Losers.

[capricorn]

What privacy law do you think was broken?

http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_15_e.asp

Just let me know. This is the first time I have heard this argument.

The video was removed from a location in Saskatchewan so I think the Saskatchewan Privacy Act would apply more than the federal Act. From the Saskatchewan Privacy Act. (See the section I bolded.)

The Privacy Act protects an individual's privacy with respect to personal information. It gives a right of action, without proof of damage, for wilful violation of a person's privacy without his or her consent.

Examples of violation of privacy include doing any of the following without the consent, expressed or implied, of the person or some other person who has the lawful authority to give the consent:

• auditory or visual surveillance;

• listening to or recording a conversation in which a person participates, or listening to or recording of messages to or from that person passing by means of telecommunications;

• use of the name, likeness or voice of a person for the purposes of advertising, sale, or for any other purposes of gain if the person is identified or identifiable and the user intended to exploit the name, likeness or voice of that person; or

• use of letters, diaries or other personal documents of a person.

http://www.justice.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?...67-cb39c35848e1

Lukiwski himself may have a case under that definition yet I believe he would not go to that length. The individuals with Lukiwski at that private gathering were clearly identifiable and I doubt they gave their consent to the NDP or the media to make use of the video. If one or more of those individuals is pissed off at their faces plastered all over the news, they may have just cause for a complaint.

No doubt this video is on YouTube. You Tube has a privacy complaint process where if a person find himself in a video and did authorize to be shown in the video, a person can complain and request that the video be pulled.

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/...mp;answer=78346

There are facts to uncover about how the NDP actually came into possession of the video. Depending on the circumstances, there may be grounds for a lawsuit by one of the affected parties. It's too soon to tell.

[capricorn]

Ten bucks says one at least one of these guys is gayer than American beer.

I'm not a "guy", I am a woman, a fact I have often divulged on MLW.

I'm happy, but I'm not "gay"

[BubberMiley]

Although I realize you're trying to divert attention from the fact that many CPC members feel homosexuals are dirty faggots, how did the Saskatchewan NDP "gain" from the video, as described in your bolded text?

[eyeball]

Ten bucks says one at least one of these - Burns, Argus and Capricorn - is gayer than American beer.

I'm not a "guy", I am a woman, a fact I have often divulged on MLW.

I'm happy, but I'm not "gay"

One down...

Percentage of humans who have at least one homosexual encounter? Google says...

... Kinsey and his associates found that 37 per cent of the males and 13 percent of the females in their sample had at least one homosexual encounter...

Link

[M.Dancer]

I have had two homosexual encounters and both were with a couple of women.

I felt so used.....

[Argus]

Are you advocating beating up gay kids now?

Is English your second language or are you simply too uneducated and dull-witted to understand what I'm writing?

[scribblet]

A gay and lesbian support group is calling for an enquiry into homophobia within the Conservative party.

No doubt this idea will find widespread support among opposition parties. It's much more fun than helping govern the country, the fundamental responsibility of an opposition that has integrity.

So what do they intend to do - pull a few fingernails, put conservatives in a pillory to make them confess to some hidden feelings they might have .. More instances of thought police and nazi like actions from the opposition.

What this MP should be saying is: It is extremely disappointing that the NDP would use a 17-year-old mistake for cheap political gain. "I will answer no further questions on this matter."

[Argus]

Ten bucks says one at least one of these - Burns, Argus and Capricorn - is gayer than American beer.

One down...

Percentage of humans who have at least one homosexual encounter? Google says...

Kinsey's work has long been cast aside as unscientific and invalid.

But I'm not surprised you continue to cling to it in hopes it validates your shrill ideological beliefs.

[scribblet]

Although I realize you're trying to divert attention from the fact that many CPC members feel homosexuals are dirty faggots, how did the Saskatchewan NDP "gain" from the video, as described in your bolded text?

Really, that`s a pretty unsubstantiated smear job on an identifiable group - the same ntolerance of the worst kind you are accusing this MP of. Maybe you are simply imputing your hidden feelings onto others.

[MontyBurns]

If only 3% of people are gay, then obviously they are having no effect on your life -- so why are you so vehement towards that small percentage of people?

If say 3% of the human population is gay then why are the left and the media trying to force this upon the other 97% who aren't gay. If an individual is gay then fine, go your own way and live the gay lifestyle. Heterosexual people don't promote heterosexuality. It's natural and assumed. If gays are content with their lifestyle then it does not need promoting. They should just act natural like the hetero people. Deep down I think gay people know what they are doing is wrong and want the rest of society to assure them it's fine. So be gay, just leave me out of it. Ignorance is bliss. That's my opinion.

BTW I am just using 3% as a rough estimate. I think I heard this # from some survey a few years ago.