Patrick Roy

[DangerMouse]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but I wanted to start one on the topic. I think the book should be thrown at the Roy's for their actions. It is sick! Especially for a game. The NHL, and junior leagues need to do something before someone gets killed on the ice--the hell with what Don Cherry thinks.

[margrace]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this but I wanted to start one on the topic. I think the book should be thrown at the Roy's for their actions. It is sick! Especially for a game. The NHL, and junior leagues need to do something before someone gets killed on the ice--the hell with what Don Cherry thinks.

I agree with you completely it was a disgraceful exibition of violence.

[myata]

It would be very easy to eliminate hockey brawls, completely. With zero tolerance, suspensions and stiff penalties. Compare to world's most popular game, soccer.

But that's not what the public wants. We want to see gladiators on ice. And the kids only trying to follow in adults steps as they do.

Vote with you wallet (and choice of channel).

[Wilber]

There is no real argument for fighting in hockey. One that is offered up on occasion the excuse that the players carry weapons but so do field hockey players yet fighting is not tolerated in that sport. In rugby which is at least as violent as hockey, a fight means ejection with suspensions to follow. It's a North American thing, not tolerated in the rest of the world.

[M.Dancer]

There is no real argument for fighting in hockey. One that is offered up on occasion the excuse that the players carry weapons but so do field hockey players yet fighting is not tolerated in that sport. In rugby which is at least as violent as hockey, a fight means ejection with suspensions to follow. It's a North American thing, not tolerated in the rest of the world.

Bah...how many people line up to see field hockey which is played all over the world but in north america, is played by girls?

rugby is a good game....but it isn't played like hockey, with defense men putting thier gloves in your face while slashing at your shins and stick....

Fighting is part of the game. Those who don't like can watch figure skating.

[DangerMouse]

Bah...how many people line up to see field hockey which is played all over the world but in north america, is played by girls?

rugby is a good game....but it isn't played like hockey, with defense men putting thier gloves in your face while slashing at your shins and stick....

Fighting is part of the game. Those who don't like can watch figure skating.

Nothing will happen until someone gets killed

[M.Dancer]

Nothing will happen until someone gets killed

When was the last time someone in the NHL was killed during a fight?

[eyeball]

Fighting is part of the game. Those who don't like can watch figure skating.

Fighting is part of human nature. Those who don't like fighting can aquiese to those who do. Its unnatural to have laws against it.

[Renegade]

Bah...how many people line up to see field hockey which is played all over the world but in north america, is played by girls?

rugby is a good game....but it isn't played like hockey, with defense men putting thier gloves in your face while slashing at your shins and stick....

Fighting is part of the game. Those who don't like can watch figure skating.

You are presuming that both parties in the fight are willing engaged in the fight. It is clear in some cases that the desire to combat is not mutual. In that case it is not a fight, it is assault. We don't tolerate that in normal society, why allow that during a game, regardless of what the spectators want.

[Renegade]

Fighting is part of human nature. Those who don't like fighting can aquiese to those who do. Its unnatural to have laws against it.

Why limit that argument to games? Why don't you apply it to our everyday interactions in society?

[M.Dancer]

You are presuming that both parties in the fight are willing engaged in the fight. It is clear in some cases that the desire to combat is not mutual. In that case it is not a fight, it is assault. We don't tolerate that in normal society, why allow that during a game, regardless of what the spectators want.

We don't allow it in games. We don't allow fighting, tripping, boarding, high sticking, inteference, cross checking, spearing or too many men of the ice.

[Renegade]

We don't allow it in games. We don't allow fighting, tripping, boarding, high sticking, inteference, cross checking, spearing or too many men of the ice.

Sure we do. By making the penalties trivial we are infact allowing it in games.

If the penalty in life for assault was to sit on the sidelines for 2 mins, how big a deterrance would that be?

Perhaps if you included jail and substantial fines to the penalties which were routinely handed out for fighting, tripping, boarding, high sticking, inteference, cross checking, spearing, you would see less of it.

[M.Dancer]

Sure we do. By making the penalties trivial we are infact allowing it in games.

If the penalty in life for assault was to sit on the sidelines for 2 mins, how big a deterrance would that be?

Perhaps if you included jail and substantial fines to the penalties which were routinely handed out for fighting, tripping, boarding, high sticking, inteference, cross checking, spearing, you would see less of it.

Indeed, everyone would see less of it as they stay away from the game altogether. It would make it as exciting to watch as women's hockey.

Few years ago I did some work for one of the alumni magazines. They had some probelms with readership. Not too many pof the subscribers actually read it. They were about to get a readership study done for them and one if the issues that was going to be measured had a picture of the Women's national team. I said to them they might consider something else....something a little more exciting...

That issue scored below average.

There is no better way of curtailling the actions of a dirty player than by sending an enforcer after him. Some may not like it but that is how the game is played. And it a damn fine game.

[M.Dancer]

HE SHOOTS! HE DOUBLE POSTS!

Edited March 28, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Renegade]

Indeed, everyone would see less of it as they stay away from the game altogether. It would make it as exciting to watch as women's hockey.

If what they want is to watch fighting, they have an option, its called MMA. Two willing participants locked in combat is what the UFC produces. At least in that case the participants and audience know what they are getting.

Edited March 28, 2008 by Renegade

[M.Dancer]

If what they want is to watch fighting, they have an option, its called MMA. Two willing participants locked in combat is what the UFC produces. At least in that case the participants and audience know what they are getting.

Are you suggesting that the fans and the players don't know that there may be fighting?

[Renegade]

Are you suggesting that the fans and the players don't know that there may be fighting?

No, of course they do. But if fighting is the primary reason that they watch the sport there are other venues where they can watch or participate.

Of course knowing that there is fighting, however, is a different thing than saying that they are willing participants in fighting or willing spectators to fighting. If a player wants to play professional hockey but doesn't want to be assulted, does he have that choice?

Edited March 28, 2008 by Renegade

[Wilber]

rugby is a good game....but it isn't played like hockey, with defense men putting thier gloves in your face while slashing at your shins and stick....

No it isn't played like hockey, it's more civilized. Dirty play is nipped in the bud so it is less likely things will degenerate into a fight. The are rules against shoving your glove in someones face and slashing. Enforce them. You rarely saw cheap shots to the head before players started wearing helmets. Now it is rare to see a game without a few. Perhaps they should get rid of them. A few less pads might give them a pause.

Fighting is part of the game. Those who don't like can watch figure skating.

Only in North America. The rest of the world manages without it and rather well at that.

[M.Dancer]

No it isn't played like hockey, it's more civilized. Dirty play is nipped in the bud so it is less likely things will degenerate into a fight. The are rules against shoving your glove in someones face and slashing. Enforce them. You rarely saw cheap shots to the head before players started wearing helmets. Now it is rare to see a game without a few. Perhaps they should get rid of them. A few less pads might give them a pause.

Only in North America. The rest of the world manages without it and rather well at that.

Hell has hockey.

The swedes play the czechs.

[Wilber]

Hell has hockey.

The swedes play the czechs.

Yet Canadian teams seem to have some damn fine games against those Swedes and Czechs in matches where fighting is not allowed. To justify fighting because it may sell the game in a particular market is one thing. To say it is necessary to make it a good game is just saying it isn't much of a game in the first place.

[guyser]

. At least in that case the participants and audience know what they are getting.

And the spectators at a hockey game know what they are getting. Look at the smiles of fans on the highlights when a fight is shown. When the games mean everything, fights rarely happen..ie playoffs.

Fans like it , players want it, NHL wants it. The NHL knows that to throw a guy out for fighting means the figfhters will start in on the $10M players. That produces an imbalance.

Besides, fighting in the kids leagues is not allowed, yet it still happens.

[Renegade]

And the spectators at a hockey game know what they are getting. Look at the smiles of fans on the highlights when a fight is shown. When the games mean everything, fights rarely happen..ie playoffs.

Fans like it , players want it, NHL wants it. The NHL knows that to throw a guy out for fighting means the figfhters will start in on the $10M players. That produces an imbalance.

What you mean is that *some* or *most* fans like it. and *some* or *most* players want it. What of the ones who don't, especially players who don't want to risk their careers in a brawl?

Besides, fighting in the kids leagues is not allowed, yet it still happens.

Perhaps it does, because they look at the older leagues as examples for their behaviour.

[DangerMouse]

When was the last time someone in the NHL was killed during a fight?

It's never happened but what I am saying is that it has the potential to happen--the Bertuzzi incident was a warning and he could easily done more damage there. As far as Im concerned the game has gone to hell! I use to really enjy it but not as much anymore--money has taken over and when you see acts like last saturday's Roy SHow--you just get more disgusted and want to change the channel . The playoffs are too long and quiet honestly this year will probably be a year where i just won't bother. I hope the cops nail Roy's butt just to send the message that it is not acceptable.

[M.Dancer]

It's never happened but what I am saying is that it has the potential to happen--the Bertuzzi incident was a warning and he could easily done more damage there. As far as Im concerned the game has gone to hell! I use to really enjy it but not as much anymore--money has taken over and when you see acts like last saturday's Roy SHow--you just get more disgusted and want to change the channel . The playoffs are too long and quiet honestly this year will probably be a year where i just won't bother. I hope the cops nail Roy's butt just to send the message that it is not acceptable.

The bertuzzi incident wasn't fighing and is/was dealt with.

Perhapsthey should ban skates or make the sticks out of nerf material....afterall, more people have died from stick injuries and skate cuts than fighting.

[Muddy]

I played the game till I was 45. I had lots of fights over the years ,but I never used my stick as a weopon and I never brutalized anyone I had at my mercy nor did I punch anyone who did not indicate we had a mutual agreement. By the way I think I lost more than I won. But what the Roy kid did was assault! No question about it and it was disgraceful. The other Kid never left his crease. He just stood there showing no indication of being a willing participant. Roy should be charged by authoritys the same as if he mugged you or I on the street.