Foreign Nationalists in Canada: Please Leave

[kengs333]

Sorry, but I'm starting to get a little tired of watching celebrations/demonstrations take place here in Canada whenever there is some sort of political issue in a foreign country. The latest such incident comes in the wake of Kosovo's recent declaration of independence which prompted celebrations on the part of Kosovars residing in Canada, and a few days later a demonstration by Serbian nationalists. You people are, for whatever reason, now in Canada, and as such have an obligation to become Canadian; your allegiance should be to Canada and Canada alone. If you're feelings lead you to have a stronger attachments to the country from whence you came, please feel free to return to that land asafp.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...rbs-canada.html

[guyser]

Ridiculous premise.

Just because someone leaves a place, a country or whatever they are , according to you , supposed to eradicate all feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place.

If that were the case, historically we would not have any british ties, no french ties, etc.

No going back to your Univ , high school, grade school, no talking fondly about your days, because, hey!, thats all in the past.

Ridiculous.

[Regulus de Leo]

What happened to free speech? These allegiances tend to dissipate over time as immigrants are successfully integrated into Canadian society (and all of our policies should encourage this). As long as they aren't engaged in violence or financing foreign or domestic terrorism we should not have a problem with a group of people demonstrating one way or the other.

[FascistLibertarian]

Yeah they ripped Serbia apart for no good reason.

Its like if Cali. became its own country bc of all the hispanics

I think you would support the right of Canadian-Americans to protest.

[capricorn]

What happened to free speech? These allegiances tend to dissipate over time as immigrants are successfully integrated into Canadian society (and all of our policies should encourage this). As long as they aren't engaged in violence or financing foreign or domestic terrorism we should not have a problem with a group of people demonstrating one way or the other.

I'm with you Regulus. I'd rather they demonstrate openly and peacefully than plot violent acts in the shadows.

[kengs333]

Ridiculous premise.

Just because someone leaves a place, a country or whatever they are , according to you , supposed to eradicate all feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place.

If that were the case, historically we would not have any british ties, no french ties, etc.

No going back to your Univ , high school, grade school, no talking fondly about your days, because, hey!, thats all in the past.

Ridiculous.

I never said anything about "feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place"--I'm talking nationalistic sentiments that clearly belie a greater concern for "the homeland" than for Canada. We should not be having demonstrations by nationalistically-minded minority groups in this country trying to coerce OUR government into responding a certain way on a foreign policy matter.

[kengs333]

I'm with you Regulus. I'd rather they demonstrate openly and peacefully than plot violent acts in the shadows.

So basically Canada is supposed to be an international violence-free political protest venue? Sorry, but I prefer (it to be) a country where all of my fellow citizens are Canadians through and through, regardless of where they come from; I want a country where I can trust my neighbours, and know that they are on side when it comes to what is in the best interests of the country in regards to certain basic things like foreign policy.

[capricorn]

So basically Canada is supposed to be an international violence-free political protest venue?

Actually, the way you put it, yes. You fail to recognize this is one of our strengths.

Sorry, but I prefer (it to be) a country where all of my fellow citizens are Canadians through and through, regardless of where they come from; I want a country where I can trust my neighbours, and know that they are on side when it comes to what is in the best interests of the country in regards to certain basic things like foreign policy.

Kengs, face it. We are a country of immigrants. Immigrants, past and present, cannot obliterate their past and origin in one fell swoop after landing at an airport or debarking from a ship. Everyone has roots, even you.

WWI, WWII and other wars saw Canadians from all different mother countries fighting for our country. If a world war was declared today, Canadians from all ancestries would fight for Canad to preserve our freedom that I am sure of.

You'll never get agreement on foreign policy issues. If politicians can't agree how do you expect the average citizen to share the same outlook? It just ain't gonna happen.

[kengs333]

Actually, the way you put it, yes. You fail to recognize this is one of our strengths.

It's a strength? A balkanized society is a strength?

Kengs, face it. We are a country of immigrants. Immigrants, past and present, cannot obliterate their past and origin in one fell swoop after landing at an airport or debarking from a ship. Everyone has roots, even you.

Keep in mind I'm talking about "foreign nationalists," not immigrants.

[August1991]

Another ridiculous thread.

I never said anything about "feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place"--I'm talking nationalistic sentiments that clearly belie a greater concern for "the homeland" than for Canada. We should not be having demonstrations by nationalistically-minded minority groups in this country trying to coerce OUR government into responding a certain way on a foreign policy matter.

How exactly do you propose doing this? Should the government arrest Canadians who take an interest in foreign affairs and choose to lobby for a certain action?

And what gives you the right to define "greater concern for the homeland"?

What do you think about the Canadian military in Afghanistan? Is that not an example of Canadians getting involved in a foreign dispute? Many Canadians are also American citizens. Should they not have the right to organize and vote in the US elections? I believe that some will be delegates to the conventions this summer.

Nowadays, Canadians travel frequently to far-flung places, live there, get involved and take an interest in local affairs. Should these Canadians somehow drop their opinions when they return to Canada.

IOW, we live in a world where foreigners come here and we go abroad. To my knowledge, Canadians are still free to think what they want.

Kengs, your idea is not only dumb - it's also impractical.

[Wild Bill]

Another ridiculous thread.

How exactly do you propose doing this? Should the government arrest Canadians who take an interest in foreign affairs and choose to lobby for a certain action?

And what gives you the right to define "greater concern for the homeland"?

What do you think about the Canadian military in Afghanistan? Is that not an example of Canadians getting involved in a foreign dispute? Many Canadians are also American citizens. Should they not have the right to organize and vote in the US elections? I believe that some will be delegates to the conventions this summer.

Nowadays, Canadians travel frequently to far-flung places, live there, get involved and take an interest in local affairs. Should these Canadians somehow drop their opinions when they return to Canada.

IOW, we live in a world where foreigners come here and we go abroad. To my knowledge, Canadians are still free to think what they want.

Kengs, your idea is not only dumb - it's also impractical.

You're right, of course. Still, one can't help but have some sympathy for Kengs feelings. My heritage is British. My folks came over to Pictou Nova Scotia on the good ship Hector, in the very late 1600's or so. That's a lot of generations of Canadians. Putting down Irish or Scottish on a census form seems kinda silly.

Over the years I've known many new, first and even second generation "immigrant" Canadians who always referred to their background with a hyphen, putting "Canadian" second and not first. I've known many from the Balkans and virtually all of them were worse than the Irish for carrying centuries-old grudges. Here in Hamilton it's common knowledge that Serb, Croat and other Balkan groups have informally staked their turf to various Horton's locations. I have friends whose parents came from those countries who dare not buy their morning cuppa from the "wrong" store!

I realize this is anecdotal and only an old guy's personal experience. When I think about it logically my head tells me you're right and that is the price we pay for a free society, the amount of immigration we've allowed and its mix of parent nationalities.

Still, when all is said and done I can't help but feel a little sad when I see countless little flags and flag decals of OTHER countries on people's cars every day, huge showings of fan support for OTHER countries' soccer teams and most sad of all: constant nagging cries to dump our Queen and become some kind of republic!

It's as if every newcomer's heritage is considered more valuable than what used to be the traditional one. British/French Canadian heritage seems LESS equal than others and in any conflict of issues must yield second place.

It seems to be the path my country has taken and it's too late now to change. Again, my head says I must accept it. My heart, however, can't help but FEEL differently!

Edited February 25, 2008 by Wild Bill

[Leafless]

Sorry, but I'm starting to get a little tired of watching celebrations/demonstrations take place here in Canada whenever there is some sort of political issue in a foreign country.

I share your sentiments but our own government encourages this type of behavior by failing to encourage the type of immigration with cultures compatible with the culture of our own majority native Canadians.

This is a root problem with mainly ethnic immigration being the importation of UNWANTED foreign political baggage.

[Argus]

Ridiculous premise.

Just because someone leaves a place, a country or whatever they are , according to you , supposed to eradicate all feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place.

Absolutely. This is why we should not give such people citizenship. Citizenship should only be earned after many years in this country to allow ones former allegiances to fade.

In this particular case we have already seen political violence from this ethnic community due to events in their homeland. Does anyone really think that were there a violent dispute between Canada and Serbia this local group of "Canadians" would not attack us on behalf of their true homeland?

It sounds very world war twoish, but if there were a military conflict between us and their "homeland" we'd probably find it necessary to round up many of these people and put them in camps for the duration.

[guyser]

I never said anything about "feeling ,thought ande emotion from the former place"--I'm talking nationalistic sentiments that clearly belie a greater concern for "the homeland" than for Canada. We should not be having demonstrations by nationalistically-minded minority groups in this country trying to coerce OUR government into responding a certain way on a foreign policy matter.

Oh sorry then. I was sure that it was your opening post that said....

Kengs

If you're feelings lead you to have a stronger attachments to the country from whence you came,

Someone must have logged in and used your name.Sorry!

The fact is anyone can love or have affection for, concern for, a country they may have been born in and emigrated from. Those feelings can carry on for many many years.

It was, still is, and always will be a ridiculous premise.

And the idea to round them up and incarcerate them, as per Argus idea, is the smart way. We better save our money though because we will have to pay them reparations later in life.

It worked out so well the last time we tried it.

[Moonlight Graham]

Absolutely. This is why we should not give such people citizenship. Citizenship should only be earned after many years in this country to allow ones former allegiances to fade.

In this particular case we have already seen political violence from this ethnic community due to events in their homeland. Does anyone really think that were there a violent dispute between Canada and Serbia this local group of "Canadians" would not attack us on behalf of their true homeland?

You raise a good point. How deep is the loyalty of some Canadian immigrants in this country? You should be required to spend more years residing in Canada before being able to become a citizen. And dual-citizenship? GET RID OF IT!!!! Choose a country and your loyalty and be done with it.

If you want all the rights and priviliages of being a citizen of Canada, it should earned and not given away. That should go for every other country as well. You only need to to reside in Canada for 3 years to be eligible for citizenship. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

Edited February 25, 2008 by Moonlight Graham

[Wild Bill]

You raise a good point. How deep is the loyalty of some Canadian immigrants in this country? You should be required to spend more years residing in Canada before being able to become a citizen. And dual-citizenship? GET RID OF IT!!!! Choose a country and your loyalty and be done with it.

If you want all the rights and priviliages of being a citizen of Canada, it should earned and not given away. That should go for every other country as well. You only need to to reside in Canada for 3 years to be eligible for citizenship. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

After what we saw recently with the evacuation of Lebanese-"Canadians" does anyone still respect the concept of dual citizenship anymore?

Two thirds of them promptly went back to Lebanon when the shooting stopped!

Citizenship should be more than a flag of convenience.

[kengs333]

Oh sorry then. I was sure that it was your opening post that said....

Yes, that's right, in my opening thread I stated:

If you're feelings lead you to have a stronger attachments to the country from whence you came

and then in another thread, I stated:

I'm talking nationalistic sentiments that clearly belie a greater concern for "the homeland" than for Canada.

Both statements are stating the exact same thing. A strongER attachment for one's country of origin is nationalistic, in my opinion, and is somewhat different than having fond memories or a feeling of attachment to that place.

[geoffrey]

You raise a good point. How deep is the loyalty of some Canadian immigrants in this country? You should be required to spend more years residing in Canada before being able to become a citizen. And dual-citizenship? GET RID OF IT!!!! Choose a country and your loyalty and be done with it.

I have zero loyalty to Canada and I've lived here my entire life. There is a riding outside of Montreal named after my family, and on one side we've been here for 400 years. The time you spend in Canada means nothing.

Some of us just couldn't give a rats ass about nationalism. I'd be one of them. I'm Canadian because I am. But I certainly wouldn't hesitate to be America, Dutch, Norweigan or Aussie if the price was right. Who cares? The flag you live under generally means nothing about your happiness in the Western world.

If you want all the rights and priviliages of being a citizen of Canada, it should earned and not given away. That should go for every other country as well. You only need to to reside in Canada for 3 years to be eligible for citizenship. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

I know people here much shorter than that who are much more patriotic about Canada than I'll ever be.

[Chrissy1979]

Some of us just couldn't give a rats ass about nationalism. I'd be one of them.

Except you used to call yourself an Alberta Nationalist on your profile.

[Crimson Phantom]

It is a real problem in this country: a lack of patriotism or sense of loyalty to the country.

The problem is, Canada is assumed to be a neutral nation, with no history or ethnicity of its own. It simply isn't so. This is a nation founded and populated by Britain. This is a nation based upon the proudest British traditions, upon which our freedom comes from.

Now, I feel ties to Britain. That's for sure. But that is in no way the same as Serbians or Sri Lankans or Indians or anyone else who comes to this country (or is born here) and feels loyalty to their nation of "origin".

It wasn't the Serbians or the Croatians or the Albanians that sailed to this land hundreds of years ago and made a nation out of it. It was the British (and the French, to an extent).

I've been acused or racism in the past, by people with their own little ethno-centric priorities. I have never said that people cannot come here and become real Canadians. It shouldn't matter where you come from, or where your ancestors came from, you can come here and become a Canadian.

The problem is that too many people that come here don't want to be Canadian. They want our healthcare, our success, our rights and priveleges, but they don't want to give anything back. They want a free ride.

Well guess what? This country didn't become great by letting whiners and layabouts take and take and take from the rest of us and give nothing back.

I would also like to note, my grandfather was an immigrant as well. But I don't go on whining about such and such ethnic group or ancient conflict from his country. When people come to Canada, they can bring stuff from their culture; they can bring their food, their dress, little things like that. But there are core values and principles that this country are based on, and they have no right to come here and try and force their beliefs on us, or ask for special privileges (like not wearing a helmet on your motorbike or a hardhat on a construction site).

I don't up and move to India or Serbia or wherever and expect them to give me special treatment.

[Moonlight Graham]

After what we saw recently with the evacuation of Lebanese-"Canadians" does anyone still respect the concept of dual citizenship anymore?

Two thirds of them promptly went back to Lebanon when the shooting stopped!

Citizenship should be more than a flag of convenience.

I agree 100%.

[Moonlight Graham]

It is a real problem in this country: a lack of patriotism or sense of loyalty to the country.

The problem is, Canada is assumed to be a neutral nation, with no history or ethnicity of its own. It simply isn't so.

I agree with most of what you said. However, many times its the politicians who are affording the accomidations to these immigrants from other cultures, not the immigrants themselves. Mots of them aren't even asking for these accomidations, we're just giving it to them for the sake of multiculturalism. I have no problem respecting other cultures. Let others practice their customs, religion, and so forth, but i ask that they come here & respect what Canada is. Come here and learn English or French & intergrate, don't just stick with your own communities (again, this is mostly the politicians fault, not the immigrants). If you want to become and RCMP officer, agree to wear the mountie hat without the turbin as is the uniform or simply do not become an RCMP officer.

The lack of patriotism has a lot to do with the lack of Canadian history being taught in our schools. You go to the U.S. and their history is pounded into your brain from a young age & you are taught that America is the best country in the world. Here, history is definately in the 2nd-tier of school subjects, well behind English, Math, science etc.

[Rue]

Sorry, but I'm starting to get a little tired of watching celebrations/demonstrations take place here in Canada whenever there is some sort of political issue in a foreign country. The latest such incident comes in the wake of Kosovo's recent declaration of independence which prompted celebrations on the part of Kosovars residing in Canada, and a few days later a demonstration by Serbian nationalists. You people are, for whatever reason, now in Canada, and as such have an obligation to become Canadian; your allegiance should be to Canada and Canada alone. If you're feelings lead you to have a stronger attachments to the country from whence you came, please feel free to return to that land asafp.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...rbs-canada.html

"You people"

Oh look a new category to add to his list.

[Rue]

I'm with you Regulus. I'd rather they demonstrate openly and peacefully than plot violent acts in the shadows.

Of course you would say that-you were already classified in the past on one of Keng's lists of "you people" that are ruining this country. "You people" always make comments like that.

They should deport you to the Republic of Uwepeoplia before you procreate and cause more "you people" to take over Canada with "you people" values.

The Messiah never sleeps.

[AngusThermopyle]

It is a rather varied list isn't it. I'm one of "you people" too, because I chose to serve my adopted country for 20 years. That makes me a state sanctioned murderer, whoopee!