kuzadd Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/05/khadr-account.html Imagine my non-suprise on reading this one? The Pentagon involved in a cover-up, say it isn't so? Canada, embarrassing as always. Lawyers for Omar Khadr called on U.S. authorities Monday to dismiss a murder charge against the Canadian, saying a newly revealed eyewitness account that had been covered up by the Pentagon casts doubt on the official version of events. Pentagon officials later backtracked slightly after it was revealed nobody witnessed Khadr throw the grenade. Pentagon officials said an eyewitness wasn't needed, because Khadr was the only al-Qaeda fighter left alive and the only person who could have thrown the grenade. However, a classified document, inadvertently released to reporters at the military prison by a Pentagon official Monday, provides a different eyewitness account of the events.A U.S. soldier at the battle said in sworn testimony that two al-Qaeda fighters were alive after the fatal grenade attack. Continue Article The unidentified soldier says he killed the first al-Qaeda fighter before spotting Khadr, whom he said was wounded, on his knees and facing away from him. For reasons he does not go into, he says he shot him in the back twice. The Pentagon says American soldiers fired on Khadr in self-defence after he tried to attack them. Yet the soldier in his testimony says the child was on his knees facing away from him when he shot him twice in the back. So how exactly was Khadr 'attacking' the soldier? Khadr's military lawyer Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler suggests that the U.S. military may have been involved in a coverup."The U.S. government had a problem on its hands when it found that it had a 15-year-old Canadian on its hands with two gaping bullet holes in his back that had been facing away from the fight," said Kuebler. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
Oleg Bach Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/05/khadr-account.htmlImagine my non-suprise on reading this one? The Pentagon involved in a cover-up, say it isn't so? Canada, embarrassing as always. Pentagon officials later backtracked slightly after it was revealed nobody witnessed Khadr throw the grenade. Pentagon officials said an eyewitness wasn't needed, because Khadr was the only al-Qaeda fighter left alive and the only person who could have thrown the grenade. Yet the soldier in his testimony says the child was on his knees facing away from him when he shot him twice in the back. So how exactly was Khadr 'attacking' the soldier? Like I said - they held this boy untill he looked like a man and had a full beard - now the American facist propogandists say - "Look at this big bad fully grown evil man with the beard - he is guilty of horrible things " Mean while like hypocrites in Canada we defend young crimminals and give them crimmial support and encouragement via the young offenders act. .... If you actually believe that Bush and that traitor Cheney have ever told the truth about anything then you are quite stupified and a wishful thinker. Facism is in full swing and to use children in any form what so ever to advance the facist cause is reprehensible. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 it certainly complicates matters... I wonder how military trials differ from civilian trials re: reasonable doubt Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
DogOnPorch Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Being a traitor is a hangin' offence as well. Although, being a civilized country, the US should just drop him off in The Stan. Let him join his chums... --------------------------------------------- You see, in this world, there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig. ---Clint Eastwood: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
AngusThermopyle Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Well, these revelations cast an entirely new light on things. Now it really is possible that he didn't kill the medic. What doesn't change is the fact that he and his familly (for the most part) are supporters of Al Quaeda and terrorism. As such he is still an avowed enemy of Canada and our Western allies, I don't think his people have come out and announced that they support Western values and denounce Radical Islam, have they? They should get him out of prison and give him a first class (cargo) ticket back to Afghanistan. I doubt he'd be lucky enough to survive another encounter with coalition troops. Simple solution really, as Stalin said "no man, no problem". The real story here is the implied cover up. If this really happened, well, its nothing new. Thats not to say its right, its not, but its certainly nothing new. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
kuzadd Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Well, these revelations cast an entirely new light on things. Now it really is possible that he didn't kill the medic. and if he didn't kill the medic , then what exactly is he guilty of, this child , at the time? I don't think his people have come out and announced that they support Western values and denounce Radical Islam, have they? angus, are you saying, if he is alleged to have beliefs that are contrary to 'western values' He should be jailed, like , thought crimes???? now that is frightful. I'll go with the facts. If he didn't murder anyone, if he was shot while down ,with his back to the soldier, then , hmmm, sounds like there is zero proof of crime committed. If the Pentagon covered up when they found they had a 15 year old Canadian shot twice in the back, then the problem is of a person, a minor, who was imprisoned and has been tortured on the basis of fabrications. Now our alleged western values should come into play, that is our value of "justice" we in the west spout on and on about. Or are we going to continue to display the western values of torture, unlawful incarceration and fake trials? You know the 'values' we've seen lately. Edited February 5, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
Peter F Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) it certainly complicates matters... I wonder how military trials differ from civilian trials re: reasonable doubt From the Military Commissions Act of 2006, under which Khadr is being tried: ss9491. Voting and rulings(2c) Instructions Prior To Vote Before a vote is taken of the findings of a military commission under this chapter, the military judge shall, in the presence of the accused and cousel, instruct the members as to the elements of the offense and charge the members - "(1) that the accused must be presumed to be innocent until his guilt is established by legal and competent evidence beyond a reasonable doubt; "(2) that in the case being considered, if there is a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the accused, the doubt must be resolved in favor of the accused and he must be acquitted; "(3) that, if there is reasonable doubt as to the degree of guilt, the finding must be in a lower degree as to which there is no reasonable doubt; and "(4) that the burden of proof to establish the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt is upon the United States. MCA2006 Despite the release of the pentagon to the press about what the eyewitness saw, no evidence has yet been produced at his trial. Who knows? Folks get shot in the back during firefights. This t'ain't the ol West. In combat its perfectly allright to shoot your enemy in the back or front or side or from the bottom or the top. That he was shot in the back really amounts to nothing if, as the US claims, there was a battle going on... Edited February 5, 2008 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Shakeyhands Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Peter.... Guess that is that then.... Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
AngusThermopyle Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 angus, are you saying, if he is alleged to have beliefs that are contrary to 'western values'He should be jailed, like , thought crimes???? now that is frightful. Nope, not at all. What I'm saying is that his familly have openly declared themselves to be our enemies. They have aided those who are enemies of ours, beyond any doubt. As such they should be treated as enemies. After all if you proudly proclaim yourself to be an enemy then I think it is really quite unreasonable to expect all the privileges of a law abiding citizen. I believe this whole issue is being clouded by his age at the time and the fact that our government under Paul Martin was too gutless to strip them (the whole bunch) of their citizenship and send them packing. As for age, if you are on the receiving end it doesn't matter one whit whether the finger that pulled the trigger was 10 years old or 50. That bullet is still going to do the same thing. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
kuzadd Posted February 5, 2008 Author Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Nope, not at all. What I'm saying is that his familly have openly declared themselves to be our enemies. They have aided those who are enemies of ours, beyond any doubt. As such they should be treated as enemies. After all if you proudly proclaim yourself to be an enemy then I think it is really quite unreasonable to expect all the privileges of a law abiding citizen. I believe this whole issue is being clouded by his age at the time and the fact that our government under Paul Martin was too gutless to strip them (the whole bunch) of their citizenship and send them packing. As for age, if you are on the receiving end it doesn't matter one whit whether the finger that pulled the trigger was 10 years old or 50. That bullet is still going to do the same thing. except the family is not on trial and that is not the issue at hand. The issue is did he or did he not commit a crime? All the rest is meaningless. This is about an alleged crime, committed or not by the accused, and wether you agree or not, all the rest just muddies the water. to quote partially someone's signature. Edited February 5, 2008 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
AngusThermopyle Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 This is about an alleged crime, committed or not by the accused, and wether you agree or not, all the rest just muddies the water. Actually if you recall it all started when he was caught aiding Al Quaeda, the rest is what muddied the water. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
DogOnPorch Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 except the family is not on trial and that is not the issue at hand. Quite frankly, they should ALL be kicked right out of Canada and stuffed on the next plane to Waziristan. These people are my admitted enemies. "Yeah he loved playing volleyball and loved horse riding," Zaynab says, "And he'd do it. I mean amongst people he was not Osama bin Laden. He was just Osama, just - and kids played around him. Kids would go shake his hand. He played volleyball with them or just horse raced with them. He was just a person. And [when] they'd go shooting he'd go with them. If he missed his [shot], they'd laugh at him and stuff like that." ---Zaynab Khadr Happy fun times with Osama...we call it 'multiculturalism'. Celebrate their 'diversity'. Embrace their 'ideals'. ---------------------------------------------- The pieces of the bodies of infidels were flying like dust particles. If you would have seen it with your own eyes, you would have been very pleased, and your heart would have been filled with joy. ---Osama at his son's wedding re: USS Cole Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Peter F Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Quite frankly, they should ALL be kicked right out of Canada and stuffed on the next plane to Waziristan. These people are my admitted enemies. Happy fun times with Osama...we call it 'multiculturalism'. Celebrate their 'diversity'. Embrace their 'ideals'. Volleyball is fun. So is horse-racing, and playing soft-ball at family reunions...I embrace those ideals. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
DogOnPorch Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Volleyball is fun. So is horse-racing, and playing soft-ball at family reunions...I embrace those ideals. Well there you go. You and Osama have something in common. ------------------------------------------------------- Acquiring (chemical & nuclear) weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank God for enabling me to do so. And if I seek to acquire these weapons, I am carrying out a duty. It would be a sin for Muslims not to try to possess the weapons that would prevent the infidels from inflicting harm on Muslims. ---Osama bin Laden Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
AngusThermopyle Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 Volleyball is fun. So is horse-racing, and playing soft-ball at family reunions...I embrace those ideals. Do you embrace them with an AK-47 at hand and a nice selection of bomb vests to choose from? Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
DogOnPorch Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 Do you embrace them with an AK-47 at hand and a nice selection of bomb vests to choose from? Yeah...lol. I know...should I warm up the bbq and invite the Khadrs over? I'm getting mixed messages. Perhaps I'm just not getting the full enjoyment out of multiculturalism I could be. ------------------------------------------- The summer wind, came blowin' in from across the sea... ---Frank Sinatra Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Ergonomic Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 I'm wondering why BritCits were rendered to Britain for trial years ago while our juveniles are left to the mercy (ahem) of US military policy. Just give us the goddamned minerals and shut your face? Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted February 7, 2008 Report Posted February 7, 2008 And so the plot thickens. It appears that now there is conflicting evidence in the case of little Omar. His alleged non-involvement in the killing of Spears may now be in question, not to mention allegations of further killing. Logically I have to question this, if he did kill three people then he must be one hell of a fighter. Latest developments in the case There's confusion surrounding the military trial of Omar Khadr after revisions to legal documents indicated the Pentagon is charging the Canadian man with the deaths of two more people. Well it looks like this is shaping up to be much larger than anyone thought. The question of the day of course will be who is being honest and who is not. Despite that question the fact remains that he and his familly are openly admitted enemies of us and our allies. Of course I know there are some who claim this is irrelevant, I however believe the declarations made by these people are enough to strip them of citizenship and ship them out. After all they are loyal to the man who is beyond any shadow of a doubt a declared enemy. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
capricorn Posted February 7, 2008 Report Posted February 7, 2008 the fact remains that he and his familly are openly admitted enemies of us and our allies. Of course I know there are some who claim this is irrelevant, I however believe the declarations made by these people are enough to strip them of citizenship and ship them out. After all they are loyal to the man who is beyond any shadow of a doubt a declared enemy. I take it you are referring to the dead patriarch, Ahmed Khadr on whose behalf Jean Chretien lobbied Pakistan. "The late extremist Ahmed Khadr found Canada boring and only returned to the "dirty swamp" of Canada for medical treatment and money, says a new biography by al-Qaeda sympathizers. === The flowery tribute portrays the Egyptian-born Khadr as little more than a Canadian of convenience, who retreated here only to collect money and have his war wounds treated. It also provides a glimpse of the disdainful way extremists view Canada. "After much hesitation he [Khadr] decided to go to Canada, the country of money and business, and there he roamed the alleys of false civilization," it says, but he joined the Muslim Brotherhood and moved to Pakistan in 1985. "And after staying a long time, the philanthropist went back to Canada, not to live in its false good life, but to collect contributions for the [refugees] and to help the Afghan jihad. He didn't stay in this dirty swamp for long." http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=288174 This is what Canada is for extremists, a dirty swamp. But they think nothing of coming here to suck on our generosity. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
AngusThermopyle Posted February 7, 2008 Report Posted February 7, 2008 I take it you are referring to the dead patriarch, Ahmed Khadr on whose behalf Jean Chretien lobbied Pakistan. Yep. He's the one. Not just him though, his wife and kids as well. I heard her speaking of her disdain for us and how proud she'd be if one or all of her kids became suicide bombers. I guess most people never heard that interview, or they have very short memories. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
Topaz Posted February 8, 2008 Report Posted February 8, 2008 If the world is going to be fair, and If the US must have Khadr punished for killing a US soldier then what about the fairest in how many innocent Iraqis and Afghanis the US has killed not to mentioned the" friendly fire" killings it has done. What you say, that's just part of being in a war?? Isn't what Khadr did part of being in a war? The US can't or won't find OBL who they say did 9/11, which I don't believe 100%, so they have to have someone else to punish? Any country who is being a friend to the US right now is only asking for trouble. Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted February 8, 2008 Report Posted February 8, 2008 Any country who is being a friend to the US right now is only asking for trouble. You're right. I suggest we cozy up to Al Quaeda instead. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
DogOnPorch Posted February 8, 2008 Report Posted February 8, 2008 Any country who is being a friend to the US right now is only asking for trouble. So...give into terrorism? Or are you just being the living example of Churchill's famous 'feeding the crocodile' statement? -------------------------------------------------- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. ---Sir Winston Churchill Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
capricorn Posted February 8, 2008 Report Posted February 8, 2008 Any country who is being a friend to the US right now is only asking for trouble. I see you're coming around to not using "Bush" in your anti-American comments. Bush bashing is quickly losing its appeal and impact. We must adapt, mustn't we? Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
eyeball Posted February 8, 2008 Report Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Any country who is being a friend to the US right now is only asking for trouble. You're right. I suggest we cozy up to Al Quaeda instead.I pick option three, a pox on both these houses. If a US soldier is captured by al Queda does the US consider the soldier to be a POW or a kidnap victim? What do international laws say? Edited February 8, 2008 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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