Drug Testing in Schools - Thoughts?

[Community Advocate]

Pot smoking is not addictive but it is perhaps more a compulsion. It is extremely habit forming, as anything that provides pleasure can be, but there are absolutely no physical effects from abstaining after chronic use.

I know this from personal experience, where I went nearly 20 years smoking it every single day. I then went to the U.S. on business for two weeks and, because I'm not a fool, I didn't bring any with me across the border. I thought I might be a little edgy and out of sorts at the very least. Absolutely nothing happened, other than some weird dreams. Nothing like the withdrawal effects I get when I don't drink my morning coffee.

Isn't it amazing what the mind can do, even in addiction? People addicted to smoking can ride on an airplane for 14 hours and not have a cigarette and not freak out. I think that is because their brains have convinced the physical addication that they'll just have to do without - can't do it - so don't even think about it. The brain is an amazing thing, on drugs, and off.

While you know your own personal experience from your own personal experience when withdrawing from thc for two weeks, you don't know the personal experience of others. I do know people who have sought out rehab for marijuana, and more people are entering these programs for mj addictions as they find it is negatively affecting their lives, interfering with their motivation, and causing income loss, family loss, etc. (just like the 'real' drugs). Those people will tell you that it is possible to become addicted to mj. You may say that it is a psychological addiction, fine. But the psychological addiction is for the physical feeling of relaxation for some. (For others, it just creates paranoia! )

[BubberMiley]

Isn't it amazing what the mind can do, even in addiction? People addicted to smoking can ride on an airplane for 14 hours and not have a cigarette and not freak out. I think that is because their brains have convinced the physical addication that they'll just have to do without - can't do it - so don't even think about it. The brain is an amazing thing, on drugs, and off.

They may not freak out, but they certainly feel the physical effects of nicotine withdrawal. The brain can't make a person ignore the symptoms of withdrawal from painkiller medication either. These are real physical addictions. "Psychological" addiction is something altogether different. I'm "psychologically" addicted to watching TV before I go to bed. This addiction may result in me spending less time with my family, becoming unmotivated, and getting fat, but that hardly makes it a dangerous pastime.

[DrGreenthumb]

For the record, I am neither a prohibitionist, nor a liar. Our police have found cyrstal meth in the pot they have confiscated from our kids. I know this as fact from the source.

I don't see where anyone has claimed that pot should be illegal because some has been found to contain cm. It's a warning - a precaution, a truth.

I enjoyed your post - you make a whole lot of sense to me, and you articulate what I'm thinking very well.

You know this is a fact? who is the source? some cop? Just because a cop says something doesn't make it fact. Prohibition is like job security for cops. It is ridiculous how much police time and money are wasted on enforcing the prohibition of a plant. Not one cop should be wasting time chasing gardeners and pot smokers while there is an actual crime being committed somewhere else. Prohibition makes people distrust police, many more actual crimes might get solved if so many people didn't see the police as their enemy, as someone to fear.

If I have to hear the more and more people going into rehab for pot story again I think I may vomit. People busted with possession are often offered "rehab" instead of jailtime. Give me a break, what would you choose? You then use all the people choosing rehab as justification for the persecution. The very few people volentarily in rehab for pot are likely using pot as a scapegoat for shitty choices they have made in life. You know the type, nothing is ever "their fault", its always "the drugs", or the "bad childhood" that makes them behave like assholes, they are not big on personal responsibility. I get so tired of listening to the ranting of the cannabis ignorants. It is always people who know the least about pot who spout off the most about how terrible/dangerous it is.

you attribute terrible and scary things to cannabis in order to try and justify what is nothing less than a witchunt. You demonize the people that use it so that you don't feel so bad about all the pain you cause, and all the families you destroy. You are hurting your fellow man, and in the end you will not be able to cleanse the stain that leaves on your soul. You will, in time, regret your actions, probably when the prohibition beast feeds on someone you love.

[eyeball]

If I have to hear the more and more people going into rehab for pot story again I think I may vomit. People busted with possession are often offered "rehab" instead of jailtime. Give me a break, what would you choose?

I overheard someone say they'd rather go postal than go through court ordered pot rehab again. They just about became an alcoholic from the stress of trying not to strangle the bureacratic little putz of a rehab worker they had.

Recall that most drug war hawks are the first to sneer at the utopian idealism and waste of money spent on any other government social engineering project. These are the very same hypocrites who also bleat the loudest about getting the government of the people's backs.

[Pliny]

Pot smoking is not addictive but it is perhaps more a compulsion. It is extremely habit forming, as anything that provides pleasure can be, but there are absolutely no physical effects from abstaining after chronic use.

I know this from personal experience, where I went nearly 20 years smoking it every single day. I then went to the U.S. on business for two weeks and, because I'm not a fool, I didn't bring any with me across the border. I thought I might be a little edgy and out of sorts at the very least. Absolutely nothing happened, other than some weird dreams. Nothing like the withdrawal effects I get when I don't drink my morning coffee.

Yeah, Coffee is a bad one. I'm sure you were looking forward to the end of your two week break?

[Pliny]

For the record, I am neither a prohibitionist, nor a liar. Our police have found cyrstal meth in the pot they have confiscated from our kids. I know this as fact from the source.

I don't see where anyone has claimed that pot should be illegal because some has been found to contain cm. It's a warning - a precaution, a truth.

I enjoyed your post - you make a whole lot of sense to me, and you articulate what I'm thinking very well.

We generally don't talk of things we dislike in a favourable manner, the things we do like we do talk of favourably.

We tend to disbelieve points of view favouring things we do not like and vice versa.

Our biases and prejudices tend to make liars out of all of us. We all need to take off our blinders.

Thank you for mentioning you enjoyed my post. I appreciate that.

[Pliny]

I overheard someone say they'd rather go postal than go through court ordered pot rehab again. They just about became an alcoholic from the stress of trying not to strangle the bureacratic little putz of a rehab worker they had.

Recall that most drug war hawks are the first to sneer at the utopian idealism and waste of money spent on any other government social engineering project. These are the very same hypocrites who also bleat the loudest about getting the government of the people's backs.

Drugs can be a problem so governments like to regulate them. Society usually demands it because certain functions can be disrupted by their use and an addict will say anything to continue his habit. It really boils down to understanding drugs and addiction and life. I will agree current laws do exacerbate the problem of drugs and needlessly make criminals of individuals. I do not believe we are at a stage where we can allow wholesale freedom to use any drug anyone wants to use because we do not have sufficient knowledge to be able to allow an individual to be in control of their drug use. We also have to be very wary of drugs that cause actual biological damage. If we, as a society, do not wish drugs to be a part of it then we should have heavy punishments for their illegal use. We don't, we aren't serious enough about it. We can't be because too many citizens would be lost to those laws. Bad laws, really. There is some confusion about prescription drugs for behavioral modification as well - probably more dangerous biologically than say - marijuana.

If you want a real education about drugs, associate with drug users but stay straight. The lifestyle does not appeal to most people.

[Pliny]

Isn't it amazing what the mind can do, even in addiction? People addicted to smoking can ride on an airplane for 14 hours and not have a cigarette and not freak out. I think that is because their brains have convinced the physical addication that they'll just have to do without - can't do it - so don't even think about it. The brain is an amazing thing, on drugs, and off.

While you know your own personal experience from your own personal experience when withdrawing from thc for two weeks, you don't know the personal experience of others. I do know people who have sought out rehab for marijuana, and more people are entering these programs for mj addictions as they find it is negatively affecting their lives, interfering with their motivation, and causing income loss, family loss, etc. (just like the 'real' drugs). Those people will tell you that it is possible to become addicted to mj. You may say that it is a psychological addiction, fine. But the psychological addiction is for the physical feeling of relaxation for some. (For others, it just creates paranoia! )

It is amazing what the mind can do.

[Community Advocate]

They may not freak out, but they certainly feel the physical effects of nicotine withdrawal. The brain can't make a person ignore the symptoms of withdrawal from painkiller medication either. These are real physical addictions. "Psychological" addiction is something altogether different. I'm "psychologically" addicted to watching TV before I go to bed. This addiction may result in me spending less time with my family, becoming unmotivated, and getting fat, but that hardly makes it a dangerous pastime.

The point: smoking is physical addiction that can be overcome with the mind alone, at least temporarily. And, if it can be done temporarily, it could be done for good. The mind can receive information that none is available, and the mind can force the body to suffer through the nicotine withdrawl. Perhaps that is because the brain tells the body to hang on, because it's over in a few hours. Just found it fascinating that the brain can do that with an addiction. I suppose it would be much harder to do that with an alcohol addiction (I've seen someone go into those shakes and fall to the ground in an epileptic seizure-nasty!) as the withdrawl symptoms may be much more visible.

btw: your tv addiction (if it is a true addiction, which means you have to do it even when you don't really want to, and it is having a negative effect on your life) may result in you losing touch with your family in a meaningful way (spending less time with family), not getting important things done (becoming unmotivated) , setting you up for heart disease and other health problems (getting fat) , so while something doesn't seem like a dangerous passtime in the moment, (like smoking a few cigarettes), it could be for the long run. Good example because that same activity could prevent you from 'burn out', as it is mindless non-interactive and relaxing, which may counteract the stress you bring home from work.

[Community Advocate]

You know this is a fact? who is the source? some cop? Just because a cop says something doesn't make it fact.

My MLA tells me this from a report he received from the RCMP (not just a cop) LOL. Cops lie too. The drink and drive, and many other wrong things, just like other humans. The badge does not make them change from a human into something else. Fortunately, like the rest of the human population, teachers, etc. I believe the bad ones are outnumbered by the good ones.

Prohibition is like job security for cops. It is ridiculous how much police time and money are wasted on enforcing the prohibition of a plant. Not one cop should be wasting time chasing gardeners and pot smokers while there is an actual crime being committed somewhere else. Prohibition makes people distrust police, many more actual crimes might get solved if so many people didn't see the police as their enemy, as someone to fear.

When I last checked, having a grow op is against the law. The police are there to enforce the laws, regardless of how stupid they may seem to some. So, when they close down a grow up, they are intercepting an acxtual crime being committed right there. Until and if those laws change is when you can complain about the police not going somewhere else to defend and enforce the laws. Same could be said when you are stopped for speeding - why dont' they just go out and find some real criminal to hassle?

If I have to hear the more and more people going into rehab for pot story again I think I may vomit. People busted with possession are often offered "rehab" instead of jailtime. Give me a break, what would you choose? You then use all the people choosing rehab as justification for the persecution. The very few people volentarily in rehab for pot are likely using pot as a scapegoat for shitty choices they have made in life. You know the type, nothing is ever "their fault", its always "the drugs", or the "bad childhood" that makes them behave like assholes, they are not big on personal responsibility. I get so tired of listening to the ranting of the cannabis ignorants. It is always people who know the least about pot who spout off the most about how terrible/dangerous it is.

I'm afraid I know way more than you think I do! lol It may be you who is ignorant in this case. The people I am referring to entered rehab on their own valition - no crimes were involved - no coersion by the legal system to enter, but ones who recognized their personal responsibility and how they were not maintaining that responsibility due to their over use of mj.

you attribute terrible and scary things to cannabis in order to try and justify what is nothing less than a witchunt. You demonize the people that use it so that you don't feel so bad about all the pain you cause, and all the families you destroy. You are hurting your fellow man, and in the end you will not be able to cleanse the stain that leaves on your soul. You will, in time, regret your actions, probably when the prohibition beast feeds on someone you love.

I put it out there, with credible source links, that people are unknowingly smoking mj laced with cm. Witchhunt? I dont' think so. Putting information out there for others - I'm guilty of that. I have not demonized anyone ever, especially those who use pot. That is your interpretation. Perhaps you smoked too much before coming here, and your creative waves took over your sensibility and ability to read. The pain I am causing? The families I am destroying? The fellow men I am hurting? My stained soul? Tell me more about that.........I'm listening.......

btw: I know for fact I will not regret my actions in time, because I use research, past experience, discretion and insight and foresight before I act.

[DrGreenthumb]

Your Mla and his cop friend are full of shit. 20 years experience of buying pot myself, and the experience of all my pot smoking friends who have never gotten a laced bag mean a lot more to me than the word of a cop who wants to make sure he will always have easy, non-threatening work to do.

Just because there is a law does not make that law right. Some laws are evil and those that support an unjust law are evil, sniveling creeps. It was once legal to own slaves and illegal for black people to sit at the front of the bus. The fact that those laws were on the books does not excuse the misdeeds of those who supported or enforced them. We do not excuse nazi war criminals because they were following orders, and neither I nor God will excuse the pain you bring on your fellow man by supporting the prohibition of God given medicine You have no right to force your moral judgements on others. No more right than I would have to tell you to stop eating potato chips, or to throw you in jail for eating a cheeseburger.

What relevance does crystal meth have to the debate on the safety of Cannabis anyway? I see you avoided tackling the question of wether we should ban alcohol because it has sometimes been spiked with the date rape drug? The only reason anyone need worry at all about crystal meth in cannabis is because of the legal status of cannabis anyway. And like I have said before, it is a non-issue . Nobody laces pot with anything, properly grown pot is plenty potent on its own, and does not need any help to sell itself.

Your stories of people volentarily in pot rehab are just that; stories. Even if a very small number of people did go into rehab over pot that is no reason to punish the millions of us that use Cannabis responsibly, enjoy its presence in our lives, and have no desire to stop using it. When will you drugwar mongers get a life of your own and stay the hell out of the lives of others who don't want or need your help?

Open all the rehab centres you want, if people want help they will friggin ask for it. What you are up to is more comparable to forced conversion to christianity than to any kind of help. One does not HELP their fellow man by tearing apart his family, seizing his assets, or throwing them in a cage. Stop pretending to want to help people, when what you really want is to punish people for having a different set of values from yourself. Community advocate? You sound more like a busybody inquisitionist.

Speeding in my eyes is way more of a "crime" than growing a plant. Growing a plant does not put anyone's life in danger, driving a 2000lb hunk of steel down the road at unsafe speeds does.

There is not one effect attributable to pot use that is as harmful as the remedies you advocate. You advocate punishment for what ammounts to a personal choice. You advocate the removal of ones children, the seizure of property and the caging of human beings when you support the status quo that is prohibition. You advocate hateful policies that help nobody and hurt many. You may be right that you will never regret these things but to me that does not say good things about your character.

[eyeball]

Drugs can be a problem so governments like to regulate them. Society usually demands it because certain functions can be disrupted by their use and an addict will say anything to continue his habit. It really boils down to understanding drugs and addiction and life. I will agree current laws do exacerbate the problem of drugs and needlessly make criminals of individuals. I do not believe we are at a stage where we can allow wholesale freedom to use any drug anyone wants to use because we do not have sufficient knowledge to be able to allow an individual to be in control of their drug use. We also have to be very wary of drugs that cause actual biological damage. If we, as a society, do not wish drugs to be a part of it then we should have heavy punishments for their illegal use. We don't, we aren't serious enough about it. We can't be because too many citizens would be lost to those laws. Bad laws, really. There is some confusion about prescription drugs for behavioral modification as well - probably more dangerous biologically than say - marijuana.

If you want a real education about drugs, associate with drug users but stay straight. The lifestyle does not appeal to most people.

Yes, drugs can be a problem. The issue is what to do if the solution is proving to be worse than the problem.

That said and speaking for myself I'm afraid I don't understand the justification for prohibiting drugs simply because they're dangerous, not in the face of legal alcohol. I've seen to much damage from alcohol to ignore it and we have all the knowledge we need to know that a justification for outlawing it and tobacco as well exists.

Stephan Harper says there are no safe drugs and the law and order aspect of his message is consistent with the perception that drugs lead to crime instead of prohibition. I wonder if he knows that 1 in 4 people incarcerated in Canada's prisons were born with fetal alcholol syndrome? Its way beyond ironic that the one substance that leads so directly to crime is the one that governments across this land are responsible for selling. Apparently the government is only now just beginning to draft safe consumption guidelines for the products it sells. I can only imagine how delicately crafted these will be.

The recreational use of drugs and alcohol should be treated as a medical issue. Perhaps the way to avoid the problem of wholesale freedom is to require that drug and alcohol use only be allowed with a doctor's prescription. My experience with governments has been that when they finally decide to lift restrictions on the things they regulate they usually cover their own butt by establishing a process whereby a third party actually takes responsibility for signing them off. A doctors prescription should do that.

Edited January 21, 2008 by eyeball

[Community Advocate]

The teenaged brain is hardwired for risky behaviour. Drugs cav exacerbate that condition. A brain in the process of development is negatively affected by drugs on many levels, from unnoticeable to problematic, and some unknown until years down the road.

Teens are already hardwired for risky behaviour without drug use:

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/200704...-risky-behavior

and they're getting into trouble with police:

http://www.bcfedpolice.com/Portals/9/docs/...ends%202007.pdf

Here is how mj affects the teen brain:

http://theantidrug.com/drug_info/mjmh_intr...on_to_brain.asp

and here's what the expert says:

http://theantidrug.com/drug_info/mjmh_ask_the_expert.asp

Potential for ome pretty serious consequences for the future, indeed. These people aren't making this stuff up......

Young people who use marijuana weekly have double the risk of depression later in life.1

Teens aged 12-17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely than non-users to have suicidal thoughts.2

There is evidence of increased risk for schizophrenia in later years in some teens who smoke marijuana.3

and to learn about the effects on the teenage brain that is still developing you can take a virtual tour of the brain here:

http://www.theantidrug.com/drug_info/mjmh_virtual_tour.asp

[Drea]

The legalization of marijuana will not make it any easier for teens to access.

Everyone (those in the "against" camp) always brings up "what about the children!".

This is not about kids, it's about adults purchasing a plant without the stigma of a criminal record if caught.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Drea

[Wilber]

Drug testing? Sounds good. God forbid they start testing for literacy.

[Community Advocate]

Your Mla and his cop friend are full of shit. 20 years experience of buying pot myself, and the experience of all my pot smoking friends who have never gotten a laced bag mean a lot more to me than the word of a cop who wants to make sure he will always have easy, non-threatening work to do.

You lucky stoner you! I'm glad you haven't been hit by this in all your years of buying and smoking pot. You have a very reputable drug dealer! (hows that for an oxymoron?)

The MLA has no reason to 'shit' me. Do you really think your 10 years of experience of buying pot yourself and your pothead friends are a more reliable source than the RCMP who are testing the stuff they bring in? I know who I'm more likely to take my stats from.

Just because there is a law does not make that law right. Perhaps. But it does make it wrong to break the law that you don't consider right.

Some laws are evil and those that support an unjust law are evil, sniveling creeps. You are entitled to your opinion, under your own agenda.

It was once legal to own slaves and illegal for black people to sit at the front of the bus. The fact that those laws were on the books does not excuse the misdeeds of those who supported or enforced them. We do not excuse nazi war criminals because they were following orders, and neither I nor God will excuse the pain you bring on your fellow man by supporting the prohibition of God given medicine You have no right to force your moral judgements on others. No more right than I would have to tell you to stop eating potato chips, or to throw you in jail for eating a cheeseburger.

This isn't about moral judgements whatsoever, It is about legal and medical aspects of drug use. It's about the laws as they are written, and the medical findings. I'm not even here to discuss the moral issues of pot smoking at all. I understand the medicinal value of marijuana. It is not against the law to eat a cheesburger, btw. (and you don't do the 'throwing in jail' part )but it is against the law to posess and grow pot.

What relevance does crystal meth have to the debate on the safety of Cannabis anyway? Go smoke another one, and then read the previous posts - you'll find your answer there. You might vaguely remember links to some articles that talk about the cm being added to the pot, therefore addicting children and youth to cm without their knowledge.

I see you avoided tackling the question of wether we should ban alcohol because it has sometimes been spiked with the date rape drug?

Nope, just haven't gotten there yet, but here we are. I don't think we can go backwards here. I agree that alcohol abuse causes far more trouble than mj abuse for society, for families, and for the general public. The cost of this abuse is very high. The next worst cost to society is the harm caused by cigarettes in the medical system. Those are the two legal drugs. Now, if we make mj legal to concur with the laws around tobacco and alcohol, I can see pros and cons to that, but more cons than pros. Just read some of the links I've provided here to help you understand that, but read them with the intent to learn, not just to debate.

The only reason anyone need worry at all about crystal meth in cannabis is because of the legal status of cannabis anyway.

Huh? Are you saying that if pot was legal, there would be a magical end to finding pot laced with cm? That would indicate to me that you think the legalization of pot would end the private sales. I don't think so.

And like I have said before, it is a non-issue . Nobody laces pot with anything, properly grown pot is plenty potent on its own, and does not need any help to sell itself.

Ignorance is blissful, isn't it?

Your stories of people volentarily in pot rehab are just that; stories.

Real stories about real people.

Even if a very small number of people did go into rehab over pot that is no reason to punish the millions of us that use Cannabis responsibly, enjoy its presence in our lives, and have no desire to stop using it.

What punishment do you fear now for your responsible use of pot, enjoying in your lives, and having no desire to stop?

When will you drugwar mongers get a life of your own and stay the hell out of the lives of others who don't want or need your help?

I am not a drug war monger. I have a live, a very good life. I am not in the lives of others who don't want or need my help. So, who are you talking about here?

Open all the rehab centres you want, if people want help they will friggin ask for it. Mandated rehab happens because people addicted to drugs can't understand the harm it is causing them until after the rehab. That's when they realize the harm the drug is causing for them and their familes. A person who is addicted to crack, for example, while fleeting thoughts are entering their minds about getting off the damn stuff, they're looking for the next fix. That's what an addiction is. So, by virtue of their own drug use and addiction, they are incapable of making good decisions, such as entering a rehab center. It is after the detox sessions when their bodies and brains are rid of the poisonous toxins that they become coherent and can understand, and have use their hindsight and foresight.

What you are up to is more comparable to forced conversion to christianity than to any kind of help. well, you lost me with that one.

One does not HELP their fellow man by tearing apart his family, seizing his assets, or throwing them in a cage. Stop pretending to want to help people, when what you really want is to punish people for having a different set of values from yourself. Community advocate? You sound more like a busybody inquisitionist.

Tell me how I am tearing apart families, seizing assets or throwing drug users in a cage? Those thoughts are not on my mind at all. And, I think I already stated above that this is not about values, it is about science, health, and the law.

Speeding in my eyes is way more of a "crime" than growing a plant. Growing a plant does not put anyone's life in danger, driving a 2000lb hunk of steel down the road at unsafe speeds does.

Well, depending on what you do with the plant, I suppose. Sell it without paying tax on the income? Sell it to youth? Load it up with some highly addictive drug? If you are growing one plant for your own personal use, I highly doubt you'd be ripped from your family, have your assets seized and be thrown into a cage, even by law enforcement.

There is not one effect attributable to pot use that is as harmful as the remedies you advocate.

again, depending on what you choose to educate yourself with, who the people are who are involved, and what you consider harmful.

You advocate punishment for what ammounts to a personal choice. show me where I advocated this, then I can explain further. I advocate for parents trying to help their kids get off addictive illegal street drugs, as they see it ruining their lives before their very eyes. That what I advocate for. Legislation that provides parents with a legal route to get help for their kids who have become addicted to drugs. A pot-smoking teen would have a tough time qualifying for a spot in rehab over a cm addicted teen for sure.

You advocate the removal of ones children, the seizure of property and the caging of human beings when you support the status quo that is prohibition.

No, I don't advocate that at all. I advocate for legislation that will allow parents a legal means to get the medical attention for the children in their care, whom they are concurrently held liable for through other laws. I advocate the removal of one's child between 12 and 17 who is addicted to drugs, and often living in a drug house, or a prostitution house. I advocate for the Dad's who quit their jobs in efforts to get their daughter out of this drug house and away from the adult men who are prosituting her, and having her deliver their drugs or them.

Question for you. I'm going to assume for the moment that you are not a parent. So, say your 15 yo sister is in the situation mentioned above. What will you do? Pretend it's not happening, try to help her, or what? and how do you think you will do that?

You advocate hateful policies that help nobody and hurt many. Be sure to check out the annual report from AADAC - it will clearly show how many have been helped by this legislation in Alberta.

You may be right that you will never regret these things but to me that does not say good things about your character.

I have an entire community who knows my character well, so I do not rely on accolades from public forums. You can try to judge my entire character by the things I say here, but you may be wrong. And you're certainly entitled to your opinion on that. But then again, who cares? I don't express myself in consideration of what others think of my character. I speak the truth, and my very nature is to be involved in solving problems rather than sitting back and complaining about them.

[Community Advocate]

The legalization of marijuana will not make it any easier for teens to access.

Everyone (those in the "against" camp) always brings up "what about the children!".

This is not about kids, it's about adults purchasing a plant without the stigma of a criminal record if caught.

Kids will always be able to obtain cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and guns. Legalization changes none of that.

This is about kids.

Any adult pot smokers here who haven't been smoking it since they were teens? I don't know any myself.

And the ones who started as teens don' t have a problem - they could quit it they wanted to, but they like smoking it. So, they're adults. Leave them alone. For me, it's ALL about the KIDS and families who are torn apart by their teens drug use, abuse, and consequent addiction.

PS: Can you refer me to a case even under current law where an adult has gained a criminal record having been caught with 'a plant'?

[DrGreenthumb]

Kids will always be able to obtain cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and guns. Legalization changes none of that.

This is about kids.

Any adult pot smokers here who haven't been smoking it since they were teens? I don't know any myself.

And the ones who started as teens don' t have a problem - they could quit it they wanted to, but they like smoking it. So, they're adults. Leave them alone. For me, it's ALL about the KIDS and families who are torn apart by their teens drug use, abuse, and consequent addiction.

PS: Can you refer me to a case even under current law where an adult has gained a criminal record having been caught with 'a plant'?

I could name several adults that I know personally who have criminal records for posession of under 30 grams of cannabis, and several more who have been in jail for growing less than 10 plants. I won't further stigmatize them by naming them here however.

Do you actually think I am going to place one iota of credibility on a link to a website called "the anti-drug"? If you are stupid enough to believe obvious propaganda go right ahead. You might as well refer me to thenazi.com to offer me proof of the inferiority of jews.

"Perhaps. But it does make it wrong to break the law that you don't consider right. "---Anybody agree with community advocate that slaves should have obeyed their masters and not tried to escape or that Rosa Parks should have just shut up and moved to the back of the bus?

The MLA has no reason to 'shit' me. Do you really think your 10 years of experience of buying pot yourself and your pothead friends are a more reliable source than the RCMP who are testing the stuff they bring in? I know who I'm more likely to take my stats from. If you could read you would see that I told you I've been buying it for 20 years not 10. The RCMP are paid a lot of money to enforce prohibition and have been caught lying about everything to do with Cannabis on numerous occasions. Nobody who earns their living feeding at the prohibition trough should be considered a reliable source of info. I'm not saying that pot being laced has never happened in all of history, just that it is so rare that your fearmongering is unnecessary. I would say that my pothead friends and I are definitely a more reliable source of information about the quality of pot on the black market than some pig who is paid by the government to lie and exagerate the dangers of pot. None of the pot people I know would ever use a drug as dirty and harmful as meth. Most of us won't even use alcohol or tobacco.

I have 3 daughters, none of whom use any drugs. When they are of the age that they choose to try some I sure hope they choose Cannabis instead of alcohol. They will be far less likely to get taken advantage of and become pregnant single mothers than their friends who drink. Pot is far less mind altering than alcohol and pot people love our children just as much as you love yours, people like you who attempt to have cops kidnap our kids in order to blackmail us into accepting your lifestyle choices as our own are the lowest form of human life I can imagine. I've never even met you and I am totally disgusted by you. I know your type.

Huh? Are you saying that if pot was legal, there would be a magical end to finding pot laced with cm? That would indicate to me that you think the legalization of pot would end the private sales. I don't think so.

First there would have to be a magical beginning to pot being laced with crystal meth, as I said before this is only happening in the minds of you and your prohibitionist friends. I have never bought a case of beer that was laced, and I've never bought a case of beer or bottle of vodka from the black market, nor do i know anyone who does. Why would pot be any different?

Ignorance is blissful, isn't it?

You would know

Do you actually believe that you are not a busybody, and not advocating for the government to have the power to force your twisted morals on others? Do you really believe that people welcome your interference in their lives?

Your church group may think you are very nice, but i doubt that the kid who ends up getting abused in a foster home so you can feel good about punishing their daddy for growing pot thinks you are such a wonderful human being. That kid probably thinks you are as shitty an excuse for a human as I do. The laws against cannabis have nevr been based in science, they have always been a way to persecute minorities. The drugwar mongers like you used to warn people that reefer made darkies feel like they were as good as white men. I guess now that most people agree that "darkies" ARE as good as white men, the drugwar fearmongers have to resort to other bullshit stories like pot being "commonly" laced with meth. You are wrong to persecute people for using cannabis, and the law will not excuse the pain you cause to your fellow man. You are promoting war crimes and hatred of an innocent community. I hope someday the tables are turned and you know what it is like to be on the other side of the persecution. Maybe someone will "help you" into a seniors home when you really feel like you have the right to choose to live at home. Karma's a bitch, can't wait till it visits you and YOUR family.

[Who's Doing What?]

Of course nothing needs to be added to a good strain. Nothing needs to be added to a poor strain either, if you smoke enough of it, you'll get high, if even for a short time. However, if you are smoking pot laced with CM thinking it's good pot, you could become addicted to the CM, therefore addicted to the pot -physically addicted. Now, if you're a young naieve kid trying pot for the first time, and are unknowingly smoking pot laced with CM, there is the potential for immediate addiction. And, btw, to me whether one has a physical addiction or a psychological addiction, the addiction can be just as harmful either way.

Only an idiot can't tell the difference between a high like you get from Crystal meth or speed and what you get from pot.

I have never heard of anyone dying from coming off of using pot for 30 years, but people need medical attention to get off opiates incase they do die. Going cold turkey off opiates can kill you, plain and simple. Going cold turkey off pot might cause some headaches and a couple of sleepless nights followed by a few nights of really vivid dreams but no risk of becoming physically ill or dying. So to say you think a psychological addiction is just as harmful as a physical addiction is completely wrong, and only demonstrates your ignorance in this matter.

As I said, the pot smoker may be completely unaware that there was CM in the pot - especially a newbie.

I repeat:

Only an idiot can't tell the difference between a high like you get from Crystal meth or speed and what you get from pot.

In Canada? Hmmmm, I think that's just one of those "85% of statistics are made up" sort of thing. I haven't heard of any national studies in Canada testing pot for CM. I don't know how you could confirm that, but lets say it's true. That still leaves a one-five percent chance that your pot might have CM in it. Want to take that chance? Alright. How about rat poison? Wanna smoke or snort some of that? How about some Draino cyrstals - you can get quite high smoking that, I've heard. So, while the chances are slim, they do exist.

You are totally off base. Paranoid from a couple of stories. You realize they have been smoking CM or PCP laced pot in the states for over a decade. It's actually quite big in some parts of LA. The way you are carrying on you would think the entire US population of potheads would be all meth addicts by now. Bottom line is it is two different personality types that like the effects of pot as compared to the effects of crystal meth or speed or coke.

Interesting perception. I'm actually using quite credible sources to increase my knowledge, and to form my opinions, and have done some study and research and teaching in this area. I have no problem at all distinguishing between CM and MJ. None at all. I am acutely aware of the dangers of many drugs, especially as related to our youth. I have made it my business to work with youth to deter them from even getting involved with drugs from the get-go with parents and students.

YA you do have trouble distinguishing, because you like lots of other uninformed people lump them both together. They are quite different. With different highs and different effects on the body. When you lump them together you are doing everyone a disservice.

And, just for the record, I have been directly involved in a drug intervention in my own family, and there is another on the horizon. I know from personal experience that mandatory rehab can work well. Thing is, you need a clear mind unaltered by drugs in order to reach the person. With an addict, until they have detoxed, you are not working with the person, you are working with the drug.

It's the misinformed and clueless youth and their parents that I am working with to educate them on the harmful effects of drugs.

IF you want to inform people then you need to get it straight yourself first.

p.s. Do the rest of us a favour and please learn to use the quote feature.

[Who's Doing What?]

Kids will always be able to obtain cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and guns. Legalization changes none of that.

This is about kids.

Legalization would make it a lot harder for kids to get pot. Go to any highschool, and try to get some alcohol. Chances are it will be very difficult, if you can get any at all. Go to the same highschool and try to get some pot. You will have it in 5 min unless they think you are a cop or something.

[guyser]

Kids will always be able to obtain cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and guns. Legalization changes none of that.

This is about kids.

IF , and thats a big if, it was all about the kids, then lets start banning the things, or rather making illegal, the "things" that kill the most kids. First we will start with alcohol. That alone will return society a huge saving wont it?

Then we can go after tobacco. That too will put millions in our coffers wont it?

Then we get rid of all guns, man that will be sweet.

And finally, after we have made illegal , guns, alcohol and tobacco we can all sit down and discuss keeping pot illegal.

Oh, you say, none of that will work? Why? Because adults have a choice in life? Because adults will routinely find a way around the illegality of pot?

So we will be left with a rising crime rate since adults will be forced underground to find alcohol and cigs and the black market will thrive. It wont be , for the most part, adults looking to buy that cause the crime, but the sellers looking to protect the turf.

And that is what we are left with today.

Any adult pot smokers here who haven't been smoking it since they were teens? I don't know any myself.

And the ones who started as teens don' t have a problem - they could quit it they wanted to, but they like smoking it. So, they're adults. Leave them alone. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/dd/...ifferential.htm http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/dd/...erential.htmPS: Can you refer me to a case even under current law where an adult has gained a criminal record having been caught with 'a plant'?

Yes there are. Lots of people bought into the schools erroneous "Just say No " campaign. Or even worse the snitches at school ratting out thier parents.

Pot is not addictive, ergo "its for the kids" is invalid. Alcohol causes more broken families than all of the other vices combined.

[DrGreenthumb]

Who's doing brought up a great point about the pot users and the meth users being totally different markets. people that use pot usually reduce their use of ALL other drugs, including prescription medicines. People using pot for medical reasons report that they need less of their other medicines when they use cannabis. If anybody I know got a bag, we would know if it was spiked and we would be pissed off. The bag would go in the garbage and we'd never buy from that person again. If you sold someone pot laced with meth you would be out of business real fast.

A meth high would be considered a really bad high by most pot people's definition. We want mellow, contemplative, and relaxed, which is exactly the opposite of a meth high. Common sense should tell you that meth laced pot is not being sold secretly to potheads. I'm glad there are some folks on this board with some roots in reality..

Free plant based medicines, and free Marc Emery!

[blueblood]

IF , and thats a big if, it was all about the kids, then lets start banning the things, or rather making illegal, the "things" that kill the most kids. First we will start with alcohol. That alone will return society a huge saving wont it?

Then we can go after tobacco. That too will put millions in our coffers wont it?

Then we get rid of all guns, man that will be sweet.

And finally, after we have made illegal , guns, alcohol and tobacco we can all sit down and discuss keeping pot illegal.

Oh, you say, none of that will work? Why? Because adults have a choice in life? Because adults will routinely find a way around the illegality of pot?

So we will be left with a rising crime rate since adults will be forced underground to find alcohol and cigs and the black market will thrive. It wont be , for the most part, adults looking to buy that cause the crime, but the sellers looking to protect the turf.

And that is what we are left with today.

Yes there are. Lots of people bought into the schools erroneous "Just say No " campaign. Or even worse the snitches at school ratting out thier parents.

Pot is not addictive, ergo "its for the kids" is invalid. Alcohol causes more broken families than all of the other vices combined.

I'm wondering if that's not what we should have done in the first place by making booze and smokes illegal to start with. Sure prohibition was a failure, but I think people were having too much "fun" with booze than to get into a cocaine habit.

I don't know what the difference is between habit forming and addictive, I think they are the same

If smoking pot doesn't hurt anyone, then I guess I should be allowed to burn purple when in the city, not pay taxes, poach, run an RCA dish again, take the mufflers off all my trucks, commit insurance fraud, sell my wheat from somebody other than the wheat board etc.

Rules are rules, we all have to follow them whether we agree with them or not.

Edited January 22, 2008 by blueblood

[Pliny]

You have no right to force your moral judgements on others.

But the law does and the law would be on his side.

No more right than I would have to tell you to stop eating potato chips, or to throw you in jail for eating a cheeseburger.

But the law does and that time is coming. Perhaps in the form of taxation.

You two can argue back and forth as much as you like. You aren't going to prove anything to each other.

All I can say is that we wouldn't have the problems we do have with drugs, including alcohol, if there were any real "experts" around.

As far as kids go. They do need an education about drugs.

Dr greenthumb; you say you would let people choose for themselves when they became of age. What information would you give them about drugs to enable them to make that choice? Would you use yourself as an example and encourage youth to use marijuana because you are successful and happy in life and they should be as well? Do you attribute your success in life to the use of marijuana or is it just a recreational thing to do and affects your success neither positively nor negatively?

And Mr. Community advocate; are you fishing to get a consensus on having drug testing in schools so that a proper bill can be drawn up and passed into legislation? The thread is about "drug testing in schools" and not about "drugs", after all. It is just my opinion but I think your employment in the drug rehabilitation industry, whether paid or voluntary, would advocate drug testing in schools and any move toward that would secure a future for you, not only that you would be "helping". How can anyone be condemned for that?

If I look at the interests of both of you I find your arguments about "drugs" to be rather redundant. Drugs is not the argument here. Personal interests regarding drugs is what drives the argument and they are both rather self-indulgent interests.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Pliny

[Community Advocate]

That kid probably thinks you are as shitty an excuse for a human as I do.

I have absolutely nothing else to say to you. :angry: