Utterly Amazing - Pot Use NOT a Fundamental Human Right?

Wilber · January 8, 2008

With drug testing for thc, how can one tell if the thc is five days old, or if the person just smoked some an hour ago?
Or, if they were at a party on the weekend (Ross Rebegliati - olympic snowboarder) and in a small room where everyone else was smoking it?

If you can't, the employer has to assume they smoked it an hour ago to cover his own ass. It's not his fault he can't tell the difference. If he can't, no one else could either. If someone got hurt because that person screwed up and tested positive, then it comes out they also failed a pre employment drug test, will the same judge then say the employer has a liability because of it? If you know using it can cost you your job, you have to act accordingly or find an employer who doesn't care. It's not the employer who made the decision to smoke the stuff.

Community Advocate · January 8, 2008

If you can't, the employer has to assume they smoked it an hour ago to cover his own ass. It's not his fault he can't tell the difference. If he can't, no one else could either. If someone got hurt because that person screwed up and tested positive, then it comes out they also failed a pre employment drug test, will the same judge then say the employer has a liability because of it? If you know using it can cost you your job, you have to act accordingly or find an employer who doesn't care. It's not the employer who made the decision to smoke the stuff.

Well, an employer doesn't make the decision for an employee to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, but my understanding is that one does, the employer can not fire them, but must provide the addicted employee with time off for rehab as well as (partial?) responsiblity to pay for the treatment. I think this is because the addiction is viewed as a medical problem.

Don't remember where I heard this, might be different between provinces?

Anyone know for sure?

Wilber · January 8, 2008

Well, an employer doesn't make the decision for an employee to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, but my understanding is that one does, the employer can not fire them, but must provide the addicted employee with time off for rehab as well as (partial?) responsiblity to pay for the treatment. I think this is because the addiction is viewed as a medical problem.
Don't remember where I heard this, might be different between provinces?

Anyone know for sure?

If they become addicted while in his employ, quite possibly. Why should an employer have to hire someone who has shown that they may already have such a problem, then bear all the associated expenses? He is hiring people because he needs them to stay in business. I assume he would like to pick his own charities just like the rest of us. This person knew that passing a drug test was a condition of being hired. They failed.

jbg · January 9, 2008

At the end of the day, the Court of Appeal did say she was wrong, and did say that it was not logical to apply the human rights legislation in the way in which she did, but one can hardly correctly say that Justice Martin made a finding that smoking pot was a fundamental human right or that some guy's right to smoke pot was to be placed above the safety of his fellow workers. It was a bit more complex than that.

Thanks for the explanation.

jbg · January 9, 2008

Well, an employer doesn't make the decision for an employee to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, but my understanding is that one does, the employer can not fire them, but must provide the addicted employee with time off for rehab as well as (partial?) responsiblity to pay for the treatment. I think this is because the addiction is viewed as a medical problem.

This is true even though most recreational drug use is, by definition, a crime?

DrGreenthumb · January 11, 2008

Unless that recreational drug is alcohol, then they serve it to you for free at company staff parties. Then the employees drive home drunk, putting the entire community at risk.

guyser · January 11, 2008

Unless that recreational drug is alcohol, then they serve it to you for free at company staff parties. Then the employees drive home drunk, putting the entire community at risk.

The company would be held liable. Very few companies dole out booze above the one drink anymore.

And if they do, taxi chits for all

Michael Bluth · January 11, 2008

The company would be held liable. Very few companies dole out booze above the one drink anymore.
And if they do, taxi chits for all

Yeah, absolutely. Far cheaper in the long run to pay for taxi chits at every party then the huge costs involved with being responsible for an impaired driving-caused fatality or serious injury.

DrGreenthumb · January 11, 2008

Ok, lets just not pretend that this is about having a problem with recreational drug use, recreational drug use is accepted, even promoted, so long alcohol is the drug you use for recreation. Alcohol is a much harder drug than pot by any measure, it is more impairing, more habit forming, and far more socially destructive. Obviously the actual effects/dangers of recreational drugs has zero to do with its legality. Anybody who thinks pot is a more destructive drug than alcohol has had one too many wobbly pops. Alcohol is known to cause long term brain damage, ever try have an intelligent conversation with a boozer? Even reformed alcoholics are usually a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

BubberMiley · January 12, 2008

Far cheaper in the long run to pay for taxi chits at every party then the huge costs involved with being responsible for an impaired driving-caused fatality or serious injury.

That would be the interpretation of the one-percenters who would view being responsible for someone's death solely in terms of financial liability.

Edited January 12, 2008 by BubberMiley

Oleg Bach · January 12, 2008

That would be the interpretation of the one-percenters who would view being responsible for someone's death solely in terms of financial liability.

Pot is bad. My wife lent here car to this strange aging old pot head. She was in such a stupor while driving that she froze in the middle of an intersection and got broadsided. The new strain of pot is addictive and brings on phycosis (hope I spelled that right). During my youth I explored all the alternative realities induced by substances - and all I can say after that long trip is - DON'T BOTHER - It's a waste of mind and life and puts the "user" twenty years behind schedual. When a person is hazed out and is on a constant flat line of consciousness due to dope or booze - there are no dynamics or ups and downs to develope character. That's why you see 60 year old winos thinking they are 18 - they have been out of it since they were 18 and have not developed. To encourage pot use - you will create a new generation of those that suffer from stunted developement.

BubberMiley · January 12, 2008

The new strain of pot is addictive and brings on phycosis (hope I spelled that right).

There is no new strain of pot, it has never been addictive (though it is habit forming, which is very different), and it does not bring on psychosis (you missed an "h"). Some studies have indicated that it may accelerate symptoms of schizophrenia for those who are already schizophrenic. Although many feel compelled to use it, no one experiences any significant physical withdrawal from quitting. And growing technology has improved, making it more efficient at getting you high, but that just means you smoke less (relieving any burden on your lungs) and spend less money.

I wouldn't blame pot for your friend's complete and total irresponsibility in operating a motor vehicle. I would blame your friend.

Oleg Bach · January 12, 2008

There is no new strain of pot, it has never been addictive (though it is habit forming, which is very different), and it does not bring on psychosis (you missed an "h"). Some studies have indicated that it may accelerate symptoms of schizophrenia for those who are already schizophrenic. Although many feel compelled to use it, no one experiences any significant physical withdrawal from quitting. And growing technology has improved, making it more efficient at getting you high, but that just means you smoke less (relieving any burden on your lungs) and spend less money.
I wouldn't blame pot for your friend's complete and total irresponsibility in operating a motor vehicle. I would blame your friend.

You are wrong - I smoked the 70s variety - and tampered with todays pot, it's a different animal. There is a super species - that is "cloned" from one single super plant. Cloned means that snippings were taken from this plant and now this single plant is grown right across the nation. If you thing pot heads smoke less you are incorrect - the more powerful - the more they smoke. I have seen them chasing the dragon as if they were opium users...plus there is so much oil in the plant -heavey users have coated their lungs to the point that cigarettes seem medicinal in comparison. As far as less money - I witnessed them spending more - there was a time when you could get an ounce of pot for 20 bucks - now you are talking 400 dollars...The stuff is bad for society and yes , those who are suffering from mild schizophrenia are made worse - seems that the mentally ill now prefer pot to pharma medications -and I see crazy people being made more crazy....I repeat - it is not good.

BubberMiley · January 12, 2008

No, there is a wide variety of different types of pot being grown. It's true they clone these different strains, but that doesn't make it a different animal. I was around in the 70s too and old enough to buy it, though I had to pay $20 a quarter-ounce. In the early 90s it was $90 and today it's $50-$70. I agree that it can be habit forming, which can cause some to incur financial problems, but that never happened for me. As they continue to perfect growing technology, my consumption has deteriorated to granules a day.

Oleg Bach · January 12, 2008

No, there is a wide variety of different types of pot being grown. It's true they clone these different strains, but that doesn't make it a different animal. I was around in the 70s too and old enough to buy it, though I had to pay $20 a quarter-ounce. In the early 90s it was $90 and today it's $50-$70. I agree that it can be habit forming, which can cause some to incur financial problems, but that never happened for me. As they continue to perfect growing technology, my consumption has deteriorated to granules a day.

Put down the pipe and step away from the car sir! Actually with me one puff and that is it - but - I need to buffer the effects with some gin..it makes me gloomy - plus I spent the last few years of my life developing spiritualy and feel very high without - the induced artifical fear factor is something I do not need - took a while to become fearless and live life well - the stuff actually defeats my new found freedom - I just don't need it any more - but at the right time it is healing I admit.

DrGreenthumb · January 12, 2008

Put down the pipe and step away from the car sir! Actually with me one puff and that is it - but - I need to buffer the effects with some gin..it makes me gloomy - plus I spent the last few years of my life developing spiritualy and feel very high without - the induced artifical fear factor is something I do not need - took a while to become fearless and live life well - the stuff actually defeats my new found freedom - I just don't need it any more - but at the right time it is healing I admit.

There are many great strains that are cloned and reused, that is how you grow some more exactly the same as what you had already. Most indoor pot is good enough to make you think it is all one super strain but if you pay attention to the taste and the medicinal qualities you will notice identifiable differences. You feel like it is so strong because you have quit for awhile. Try smoke a cigarette after quitting for a week or so, you will feel like you are having a stroke or a heart attack, you get so spaced out.

Oleg Bach · January 13, 2008

There are many great strains that are cloned and reused, that is how you grow some more exactly the same as what you had already. Most indoor pot is good enough to make you think it is all one super strain but if you pay attention to the taste and the medicinal qualities you will notice identifiable differences. You feel like it is so strong because you have quit for awhile. Try smoke a cigarette after quitting for a week or so, you will feel like you are having a stroke or a heart attack, you get so spaced out.

Odd how you mentioned that. I am a very heavey nicotine user. This afternoon I had been with out cigrettes for about 7 hours..Bought a pack and fired one up on the way to do some chores at one of my kids new digs...it's cool apartment on Queen...with a real seedy back entrance in an alley..with the New Yorkish fire escape - Well - I began to almost stagger down the alley way due to the blast of toxic nicotine - my face was crawling with what felt was pins and needles....For a second I became worried that someone might mistake me for a local crack head..

.Yes - tobacco is much more powerful than we assume...as far as feeling like I am having a stroke or heart attack- I feel like that everyday anyway....at my age you get hyper sensitive to your body - in order to keep healthy - I really enjoy your encouragement to take up smoking pot again - BUT -I am already out of the ball park when I am straight - and to smoke would make me wander the cosmos..don't need it - thanks for the recruitment lecture anyway.

BubberMiley · January 13, 2008

I wouldn't encourage anyone to acquire a habit, but pot is a far healthier choice than nicotine. It's kind of foolish to rant about the dangers and evils of weed when you're puffing on something far worse.

Oleg Bach · January 13, 2008

I wouldn't encourage anyone to acquire a habit, but pot is a far healthier choice than nicotine. It's kind of foolish to rant about the dangers and evils of weed when you're puffing on something far worse.

Nicotine is a stimulant - I am addicted to coffee also...my personality seems to artifically thrive on the jolt. I have tampered with almost every substance during my life time - mostly during an ill spent youth. Frankly I do not like the warpage of reality that pot induces. I am a realist and a truist - just don't think that habitual pot smokers are useful human beings - I have not seen one yet that contributes to their full potential.

BubberMiley · January 13, 2008

I have not seen one yet that contributes to their full potential.

I don't know anyone who contributes to their full potential, but Revenue Canada says I owe them $42,856 before April 30, so I don't think they're complaining.

Oleg Bach · January 13, 2008

I don't know anyone who contributes to their full potential, but Revenue Canada says I owe them $42,856 before April 30, so I don't think they're complaining.

About 7 years ago - I had one semi-lucrative year - got my first accountant and filed taxes for the first time since I was a kid. Well that was a mistake - a five thousand dollar tax debt expanded to 25 thousand though compound interest..then I told them that they were Draconian jerks - then - they back filed on my behalf to make it look legitimate - the interest....soon they were taking 100 % of my money - I could not reason with them - I have not held a job since - also in the film industry most agents do not declare - as soon as they sent their tax bulls out to do their rounds - the agents froze up and would not book me

- so here I am and here you are telling me to get stoned and forget about it - ironic - I was a great contributor of my insight and creative energy - I assisted on over 200 American motion pictures - and by the way - never took a drink on set or a smoke in 18 years...do I sound like I am whinning? Well I am - it's just me alone with the dogs and sure wish I could afford a small bottle of gin---thank god the wife is waiting at another local - let her wait - she is a big smoker and a bore - I have no one to talk with when she is out of her mind witht weed - it's like the person is not fully there--

BubberMiley · January 13, 2008

here you are telling me to get stoned and forget about it

No, like I said, I don't encourage anyone to acquire a bad habit. But not paying your taxes can be the worst bad habit of all.

Oleg Bach · January 13, 2008

No, like I said, I don't encourage anyone to acquire a bad habit. But not paying your taxes can be the worst bad habit of all.

It was not a habit and do not judge me so swifty and with prejudice - I was raising a family at the time - I simply could not afford to pay tribute. BUT I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in excise tax or "sin taxes" - I paid more than my share and my body suffers because of it..now getting back to pot.

My resentment of the substance stems from what it has done to a family member- My marriage is on the rocks because my wife is an abuser of pot..A person in a partnership must have good communication - intelligent and useful interchange. With heavey pot smokers the person is really not there for you and there is as with alcohol - disinhibited judgement..she has horrible judgement when it comes to money and people and most of all - to me...a clear mind leads to stablity and prosperity - The wife spent the tax money like there was no tomorrow - I am a victim..and I am not whinning. I never asked for this life to become what it is in regards to my well being and security...I mated with the wrong person - but I did my duty and raised my children - so don't pick on me.

BubberMiley · January 13, 2008

Oh, I'm not judging you. I said not paying taxes was the worst bad habit only because of the potential repercussions. From your story, it sounds like you know exactly how bad those repercussions can be.

Oleg Bach · January 13, 2008

It was not a habit and do not judge me so swifty and with prejudice - I was raising a family at the time - I simply could not afford to pay tribute. BUT I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in excise tax or "sin taxes" - I paid more than my share and my body suffers because of it..now getting back to pot.
My resentment of the substance stems from what it has done to a family member- My marriage is on the rocks because my wife is an abuser of pot..A person in a partnership must have good communication - intelligent and useful interchange. With heavey pot smokers the person is really not there for you and there is as with alcohol - disinhibited judgement..she has horrible judgement when it comes to money and people and most of all - to me...a clear mind leads to stablity and prosperity - The wife spent the tax money like there was no tomorrow - I am a victim..and I am not whinning. I never asked for this life to become what it is in regards to my well being and security...I mated with the wrong person - but I did my duty and raised my children - so don't pick on me.

Bubbermilly was playing me - excuse the self answered insertion.