Ottawa school threatened after Christmas song cuts

[kengs333]

A recent letter in a newspaper to share with you here: (on the original topic) - any guesses at the age of the author?

Saturday » January 5 » 2008

Get your own holiday

Langley Advance

Tuesday, January 01, 2008

Dear Editor,

I've about had enough of this "Politically Correct" crap. Christmas is just that: Christmas!

...

Tamara Trudell, Langley

© Langley Advance 2008

I'm a little skeptical about her reference to "us Christians" and I question what "her" true intent is with this letter.

Edited January 7, 2008 by kengs333

[Brunopolis]

Parents have just about had enough of this PC stuff from some teachers which has gone on too long. This was bound to boil over and now the parents are the bad guys for their reaction.

One school in Ottawa avoids using the "C" word by calling it "red and green day". How preposterous can this PC BS get. It only takes a few teachers to spoil what should be a joyous occasion for children. The children exposed to these PC games become confused then the parents have to deal with the fallout.

I think all elementary school recitals and concerts should be pre-approved by a committee of parents. I mean not just Christmas events but ALL such events. There's no other way to prevent these situations which inevitably turn into a community controversy.

Normally I'd be against the removal of christmas at public schools. Unfortunately, we have a little something called public catholic schools. If you want your children to enjoy catholic holidays at school then please feel free to enroll your child in a catholic publically funded school. I personally celebrate Christmas but if people are getting upset that the non-catholic public school is trying to avoid celebrating catholic holidays then I truly don't know what to say. Personally, I already think the catholic school board itself should be merged with the public school board as it's pretty hypocritical given our countries supposed "secular" status.

[Community Advocate]

Normally I'd be against the removal of christmas at public schools. Unfortunately, we have a little something called public catholic schools. If you want your children to enjoy catholic holidays at school then please feel free to enroll your child in a catholic publically funded school. I personally celebrate Christmas but if people are getting upset that the non-catholic public school is trying to avoid celebrating catholic holidays then I truly don't know what to say. Personally, I already think the catholic school board itself should be merged with the public school board as it's pretty hypocritical given our countries supposed "secular" status.

Public Catholic schools are only in Ontario. Other provinces have private Christian schools.

Christmas is not a Catholic holiday - it is a Christian holiday - Holy-day.

Our contry's supposed "secular" status is just that - supposed.

Public schools are closed for Christmas holiday in Canada.

The Canadian calendars have Christmas day marked on the 25th of December, and the vacation for all is a direct result of the Christian holiday. So is Easter.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Community Advocate

[Guest American Woman]

Public Catholic schools are only in Ontario. Other provinces have private Christian schools.

Christmas is not a Catholic holiday - it is a Christian holiday - Holy-day.

Our contry's supposed "secular" status is just that - supposed.

It's kind of ironic that the U.S. is viewed as 'so religious,' yet we have no public religious schools. Public funds do not go towards religious schools here, which is the way it should be with separation of church and state. I'm surprised there are public Catholic schools in any province in Canada.

[guyser]

- any guesses at the age of the author?

No idea of the age.

Rest assured it certainly is not someone with a functioning brain. If it were to function he or she would see through the fake scam about Christmas being hijacked

[Wild Bill]

It's kind of ironic that the U.S. is viewed as 'so religious,' yet we have no public religious schools. Public funds do not go towards religious schools here, which is the way it should be with separation of church and state. I'm surprised there are public Catholic schools in any province in Canada.

Well, we do and we don't! As someone else mentioned, it's only an Ontario thing.

When Canada was founded in 1867 one of the documents akin to the American constitution stuff was the British North American Act. After it got through with defining Canada as a Dominion (no longer a simple colony of Britain) it tackled a few rights issues. At the time the two largest majority religions were Anglican/protestant (Churches of England)and Roman Catholic, particularly in french-speaking Quebec.

The BNA act guaranteed the right of Catholics to educate their children in their own religious schools, with the Catholic Church doing the primary job of supplying teachers from their priests, nuns and such. For generations this was an entirely separate and independent school system, distinct from the public school institutions.

In the 80's one of our Ontario premiers responded to a long-standing cry from Catholic citizens who felt it was unfair that they had to pay taxes that included a portion to the public school system, while they had to pay for their Catholic school system out of their own pocket. The BNA act was often quoted as entitling them to this funding in the name of equality. I downloaded the BNA act myself and read the entire thing. As expected it was kinda dry and legally technical for a layman like myself but while it plainly guaranteed the right of Catholics to have their own schools I couldn't see anything about guaranteed funding! I actually had occasion to ask a local Catholic principal about this and he told me that the right to funding was "implied", whatever that means. I'm not quite certain if in 1867 even public schools were government funded! Perhaps some other reader might chip in the passage I missed.

Anyhow, it was incredibly politically divisive. The premier involved was Bill Davis and he had never campaigned on the issue. He simply passed it just before he was stepping down anyway and left his successor to take the heat. The non-Catholics were upset about taxes lost to a separate system when all were welcome at the public schools. The Catholics were ecstatic, of course!

Forgotten at the time were all the non-Catholic religious schools like the Jews and various Christian sects, some Moslems and even non-religious private schools. They began to ask why they were not treated in the same manner as the Catholics? The politicians of course all dodged this one but over the years the issue kept growing. There was even a UN resolution condemning Ontario for being discriminatory!

Other related issues have cropped up. With the Catholic system taking government money, isn't the fact that they tend to refuse to hire all but a few token non-catholic teachers discriminatory and against our Charter of Rights? If they take public money how much right does the provincial government have in overseeing their curricula?

The pols have been successful in dodging these issues for a couple of decades now but last fall we had a provincial election where the opposition candidate was dumb enough to open his mouth about extending funding to other religions. At first glance it seems more fair but what his team seemed to have been ignorant about was that the entire idea of religious funding had been incredibly contentious when introduced in the 80's. It had never been publicly approved but simply passed down from on high with no formal sanction from the people as an election issue. Now this candidate reminded everyone all over again and he went down in flames at the polls! The incumbent had had serious worries about re-election but his opponent had obligingly "hung himself".

So that's the story, as I understand it. As said, it's only in the province of Ontario and it's not well accepted. It's just simmering away while the politicians keep trying to avoid taking any stand.

Who knows what the next election will bring! One idea that was proposed by a federal party was a voucher system, where every citizen/parent would get a voucher equal to his education portion of his taxes that he could assign to the school of his choice. If he wanted to give it to a public school, a particular religious school or even a different neighbourhood public school 'cuz he wasn't impressed with the one closest to him that would be his right! I had thought the idea had some merit. Perhaps it may crop up provincially someday.

[Community Advocate]

First off, thanks a lot for the history on Ontario Catholic schools, as well as the other history you noted.

In the 80's one of our Ontario premiers responded to a long-standing cry from Catholic citizens who felt it was unfair that they had to pay taxes that included a portion to the public school system, while they had to pay for their Catholic school system out of their own pocket.

This is the remaining complaint from parents who pay tuition for their kids to attend private schools, while their tax dollars are sent to the public system where their kids don’t attend. It’s a bit of a contentious issue because we all pay school taxes, whether we have kids in the public system or not – heck we still pay school taxes when we are retired, even if we have no grandchildren attending public schools. We all pay for public schools. And we all have the freedom of choice between public schools, alternate public schools, private schools, and home schooling. Either choice does not relieve you from paying public school taxes. Much like you still pay the transportation taxes, even if you don’t use the public transportation system. Some cities here even charge a surcharge tax on gasoline to fund the shortfall in the public transit system.

If they take public money how much right does the provincial government have in overseeing their curricula?

The schools that are funded with public money are most certainly accountable to the Ministry of Education for their curricula.

Who knows what the next election will bring! One idea that was proposed by a federal party was a voucher system, where every citizen/parent would get a voucher equal to his education portion of his taxes that he could assign to the school of his choice. If he wanted to give it to a public school, a particular religious school or even a different neighbourhood public school 'cuz he wasn't impressed with the one closest to him that would be his right! I had thought the idea had some merit. Perhaps it may crop up provincially someday.

I’ve heard this talk for the past two years, and it is looked upon favorably by most parents I know. I too think the idea has merit. When a student moves from one school to another the funding for that student is transferred to that school. However, my understanding is that this funding is not transferred to another school district, should your choice of public schooling be in a different district. I believe it might just be the way in the not too distant future.

I am reminded of those words of my very smart father, who said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can not please all of the people all of the time."

[Community Advocate]

and just for fun:

Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule.

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And any time my head I bow

Becomes a federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green.

That's no offense, it's the freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise,

And prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate.

God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues, and cheeks.

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant senior queen,

And the unwed daddy, our senior king.

But it's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth control,

Study witchcraft, vampires, and totem poles.

The Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.

It is scary here, I must confess,

When chaos reigns, the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot, my soul please take. --Anonymous

[Guest American Woman]

So that's the story, as I understand it. As said, it's only in the province of Ontario and it's not well accepted. It's just simmering away while the politicians keep trying to avoid taking any stand.

Who knows what the next election will bring! One idea that was proposed by a federal party was a voucher system, where every citizen/parent would get a voucher equal to his education portion of his taxes that he could assign to the school of his choice. If he wanted to give it to a public school, a particular religious school or even a different neighbourhood public school 'cuz he wasn't impressed with the one closest to him that would be his right! I had thought the idea had some merit. Perhaps it may crop up provincially someday.

Thank you for the information-- I appreciate it. I can see where this issue has been a problem from time to time. I imagine it will eventually become an issue that has to be dealt with.

As for the voucher system, I think it has it's problems too. For one thing, even though every parent gets a voucher and can choose where to send their child, it's still other people's tax money funding the vouchers too. Therefore, taxes are still funding the religious schools. Also, what if so many picked a religious school/school in another neighborhood that there were no longer enough students to fund a local public school?

Edited January 8, 2008 by American Woman

[guyser]

Also, what if so many picked a religious school/school in another neighborhood that there were no longer enough students to fund a local public school?

And that is precisely why we should have one board and one public school system. Demographics change in neighbour hoods , and in the same neighbourhood we could have a third full catholic and a regular school on the next block bursting at the seams.

[M.Dancer]

And that is precisely why we should have one board and one public school system. Demographics change in neighbour hoods , and in the same neighbourhood we could have a third full catholic and a regular school on the next block bursting at the seams.

Gosh I wish I knew where that 1/3 full catholic school was....

[guyser]

Gosh I wish I knew where that 1/3 full catholic school was....

point taken, but it could also be in reverse. I should have said that.

I know of two close by me, but in Etobicoke.

[M.Dancer]

point taken, but it could also be in reverse. I should have said that.

I know of two close by me, but in Etobicoke.

We were going to send our daughter to a separate school but didn't when we found out that most of the kids at our local were learning english as a second language.

....then for some reason we are sending her to french immersion....

Not far from us in Moore Park a friendsw daughter is going to a catholic school. Since she started there she has blossumed. student to teacher ratio is just below the provincial target (our daughter's class is 4 above) and they have numerous extra curricular activities that are free and staffed by teachers and volunteers.

Her father was initially dubious but now he feels sending her there is like sending her to a private school anbut saving $12,000 a year.....

We plan to send our daughter to a catholic igh school. If all things are equal, getting class conscious and fashion crazy teenage girls in a uniform is the deal maker....

[guyser]

We were going to send our daughter to a separate school but didn't when we found out that most of the kids at our local were learning english as a second language.

The myth of Rosedale is killed. Amongst those monster homes (Douglas Drive) are plenty of people who keep those homes operating.

....then for some reason we are sending her to french immersion....

TFS?

Not far from us in Moore Park a friendsw daughter is going to a catholic school. Since she started there she has blossumed. student to teacher ratio is just below the provincial target (our daughter's class is 4 above) and they have numerous extra curricular activities that are free and staffed by teachers and volunteers.

Her father was initially dubious but now he feels sending her there is like sending her to a private school anbut saving $12,000 a year.....

We plan to send our daughter to a catholic igh school. If all things are equal, getting class conscious and fashion crazy teenage girls in a uniform is the deal maker....

Moore Park is probably my favourite place in the city.(Withrow is the other) No one knows how to get there and everything dead ends in there. It is also a place where volunteers are like trees....everywhere. Very positive parent presence, but you already know that and why.

I understand why people want to send them to cath school. If I were a C I would take advantage of the system. But it should end, once your daughter graduates of course .nyuk nyuk

[M.Dancer]

The myth of Rosedale is killed. Amongst those monster homes (Douglas Drive) are plenty of people who keep those homes operating.

Yes but I live in Forest Hill. And just west of Forest Hill is a large Hipanic and Philipino community.

TFS?

No Toronto Public....we looked at 4 different schools when ou daughter was in daycare..we didn't know you were supposed to school shop...we checked out all of our local spots and rule out most for one reason or another. The one we settled on had the best facilities as well as after school care. Then we found out about districts. Then we found out about French Immersion. Soour daughter is in grade 3, speaks and reads passable french and our son will start there next september.

Moore Park is probably my favourite place in the city.(Withrow is the other) No one knows how to get there and everything dead ends in there. It is also a place where volunteers are like trees....everywhere. Very positive parent presence, but you already know that and why.

Yes but they have a shortage of good bars in walking distance. By walking distance I mean around the corner. I am found of leaside too.

I understand why people want to send them to cath school. If I were a C I would take advantage of the system. But it should end, once your daughter graduates of course .nyuk nyuk

I don't think you have to be catholic.....my wife is but I was born perfect.

[Shakeyhands]

Gosh I wish I knew where that 1/3 full catholic school was....

They seem to be closing alot of the Catholic schools out where I am in the east end... Seems enrollment numbers are declining.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Shakeyhands

[guyser]

Yes but I live in Forest Hill. And just west of Forest Hill is a large Hipanic and Philipino community.

No Toronto Public

Where? All I can think of is Bathurst and St Clair, and that area moving west is, at least on the north side isnt Hisp/phil Has it been that long since I was down there? You know I should go further west towards the old CP abbotoir?

Am I correct in Withrow being W of Bath S of St Clair?

Yes but they have a shortage of good bars in walking distance. By walking distance I mean around the corner. I am found of leaside too.

I don't think you have to be catholic.....my wife is but I was born perfect.

Walking up to Manor is not far. maybe two corners...Or the Legion at the community centre.

[M.Dancer]

Where? All I can think of is Bathurst and St Clair, and that area moving west is, at least on the north side isnt Hisp/phil Has it been that long since I was down there? You know I should go further west towards the old CP abbotoir?

It is now. Holy Rosary has a large spanish speaking congregation. All along St. Clair west of Bathurst to before Dufferin are ecuadorian restaurants, Philopino groceries and such. Quite a few Portuguese too. Either way it meant that Holy Rosary School was over half ESL and St Mike's wouldn't take her.....said her backhand and wristshot were weak....

[M.Dancer]

Walking up to Manor is not far. maybe two corners...Or the Legion at the community centre.

Yeah I guess moore park goes out that far....I sort of see it as St Clair and Mt Pleasant..which means the closest pub is st clair and Yonge...

[Artist Soul]

I'm a little skeptical about her reference to "us Christians" and I question what "her" true intent is with this letter.

Actually, she is a good friend of mine. I am not sure what you are meaning when you express your skepticism about "us Christians". I can assure you she is actually a Christian, she is an adult woman with a teenage daughter. The letter was written on a day when she had had to deal with a lot of "politically correct" crap regarding Christmas. She did not write it with the intention of having it published, it was a post on our church forum and she was encouraged by her friends to send it in to the local papers.

I'm not really sure what hidden "intent" you could possibly think she had. I am also not really sure why you put "her" in quotation marks.

Looking forward to your explanation...

[Artist Soul]

No idea of the age.

Rest assured it certainly is not someone with a functioning brain...

Nice blind judgement...

[Oleg Bach]

But school board chair Lynn Scott had this to say:

What would Lynn Scott care about Christian values when she herself could have maybe dressed in her civvies and left her hijab at home.

This is considering the strange fact that she acknowledges 'Christmas' and does not refer to it as the 'holiday season', although she came close to it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007...mas-071221.html

How could not understand how this woman can comment on Christian values when she knows nothing of them. Some seem to believe that the teachings of Christ are the same as the teachings of Ghandi. Not so - Christian values demand justice and some Christians have been known to make a whip and beat the crap out of offenders...wonder who that Christian was? Once they take Christmas away..that will be it for our culture...I am serious...I don't think we realize how firmly we are based in Christianity - it was the great doctrines of Christ that build the British Empire - the Holy Roman Empire and the Canadian Empire ...even the American revolutionary war cry was "No king but Jesus" - All of worth while western civilization was built not on the bones of Peter - but on the living spirit of Christ - a man who after 2000 years still has influence - now that is a something...some little twit thinks she can destroy that heritage? Not likely!

[guyser]

Nice blind judgement...

Naw, no blind judgement, just the truth. And she obviosuly does not look for the truth, but makes up some wild idea about christmas being PC'd.

Here....

Yes, it is a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Christ. If you don't believe in that, then don't celebrate Christmas. I'm sick and tired of stupid people saying it's discriminatory. No, it isn't. It's Christmas. Not Xmas. Not holiday time or whatever you want to say - it's Christmas.

In the context of schools or govt offices, it is discriminatory. Schools et al should not celebrate it at the exclusion of others,and that was ocurring.

Lots of people dont celebrate Christmas.And lots of people dont want to pay for HER to celebrate christmas on their tax chit.

But she couldnt see that. She has an agenda....or is dumb.

You don't see people pulling down menorahs because someone else might get offended, but now towns are not displaying the nativity because it's a religious symbol. It's a freakin' religious holiday!

Cant oull down what doesnt go up in the first place. But nope, she doesnt see that. Where were the diwali lights, the stainless steel poles?, the menorahs , where were they in schools and in govt offices? Oh yeah, they were not put up.

But boo hoo the christians being told to play fair.

What about us Christians? What about offending us by trying to change our holiday and turning it into something so completely commercial and politically correct that it's lost all of its meaning and symbolism?

UGGHHHHH, I am so freaking mad

Ok this is alright. She is mad at and should be mad at christians. They are part and parcel the reason it is commercial. Guess she didnt figure that one out either.

So...I'd say she is freaking stupid.

So it was posted on a church forum. Should have stayed there and saved herself the embarassment.

Edited January 12, 2008 by guyser

[Community Advocate]

Actually, she is a good friend of mine. I am not sure what you are meaning when you express your skepticism about "us Christians". I can assure you she is actually a Christian, she is an adult woman with a teenage daughter. The letter was written on a day when she had had to deal with a lot of "politically correct" crap regarding Christmas. She did not write it with the intention of having it published, it was a post on our church forum and she was encouraged by her friends to send it in to the local papers.

I'm not really sure what hidden "intent" you could possibly think she had. I am also not really sure why you put "her" in quotation marks.

Looking forward to your explanation...

Thanks for the insight!

[joan]

So this is another example of the kind of response they got. Very 'Christian', folks!

Canada is NOT a Christian country. Freedom of religion, remember?