Lose of jobs

[madmax]

Indeed it has....I would remind our dismayed members that US automotive manufacturing jobs were exported to Canada.....not much in the way of passionate Canadian complaints as I recall.

That was a great trade deal for Canada, and being a Canadian I am all for good trade deals. It did have its drawbacks, in that our multi vehicle facilities and design and managerial facilities took a back seat to the US. Canada had a problem of importing more parts for our facilities, and thus our auto ran a trade deficit. With the creation of the Auto Pact, we ran a trade surplus.

Good for us, to bad it is gone now. You win. BTW US Automakers sent word to their suppliers to relocate to China a few years ago. So enjoy.

Perhaps, but banking products and processes are going global. Canada never really had a strong Tier I automotive base until "global" manufacturers set up assembly plants. And that includes the former Ford and GM, who are more profitable with operations outside of North America.

Some Canadians act as if the automotive manufacturing base has always existed....not so.

Of course the base existed. It existed differently. The Auto Pact only ran from 1965 until watered down in NAFTA and finally erradicated by the WTO.

What do you think Canadians Did from 1907 till 1965? Ride Horses? Canada was a significant industrial power, and their are cities with a quite an industrial heritage.

You can thank Sir John A for putting together the nuts and bolts to make it work, and Brian Mulroney for tearing it apart.

As for Banking, you wanna hear, bloody murder, let some of these financial and insurance institutions face US competition here.

They would go the way of Canadian Manufacturing in a heartbeat.

But that is fantasy, for the people who have been losing their jobs recently, they are facing a new reality.

[Borg]

Will the federal government help the people who lose their jobs with their mortgages. People working in these factories have mostly all bought homes, lots of those people worked in the same place for over 20 years.

Another subsidy in the form of unemployment?

Tough to live on that.

Borg

[madmax]

But the point was made that the G8 needs to retain industry to stay inside the G8. That's not clear to me.

Which country in the G8 didn't have an industrial base? Perhaps there were other reasons to include these countries and it has nothing to do with industrial manufacturing.

[ScottSA]

Will the federal government help the people who lose their jobs with their mortgages. People working in these factories have mostly all bought homes, lots of those people worked in the same place for over 20 years.

So what? How is that relevant? Why should "government" come to help these people? Why don't they move or find new jobs? Christ, how did we ever get to the point that people lose a job and then sit and cry, waiting for someone else to come and rescue them? If you lose a job, find another. If you have to move, then move. If you have to change fields, then change fields. If you have to sell your house, then sell your house, or commute, or do whatever it is has to be done.

What has happened to our society that even breeds this defeatist attitude? How did this country ever get built in the first place? I can just imagine the first sod busters...."Dear Upper Canada: We had a bad harvest this year accch. Our sod hut lacks heat, the potatos are goin' bad, and the cow ain't milkin' right, aye? But we don't want to move. Come and give us a wee pittance, will ye?

[madmax]

Foreign trade is just a new technology .

Foreign Trade is just a new technology......????

Madmax, may I suggest that you take an introductory course in economics at a local college or university?

I have a degree thank you very much.

You might want to explain your comment above before I start to laugh.

[Canuck E Stan]

I have a degree thank you very much.

Yeh,bet do you have 22 honourary ones, like Suzuki?

[madmax]

So what? How is that relevant? Why should "government" come to help these people? Why don't they move or find new jobs? Christ, how did we ever get to the point that people lose a job and then sit and cry, waiting for someone else to come and rescue them? If you lose a job, find another. If you have to move, then move. If you have to change fields, then change fields. If you have to sell your house, then sell your house, or commute, or do whatever it is has to be done.

Your comments are what occurs under all circumstances, so I don't understand your rant.

You sound like some government sources I have met, who want to retrain an ex worker to be a nurse. Sounds good on paper, until by the time the training is done the person could well be in the nursing home.

We have to be realistic about what the possibilities are with regards to retraining.

Just like your comments about moving.

Today, many couples have to make the decision to stay in Ontario or Move to Greener pastures. To pick up and leave a 55 years of age is rather daunting to some, and convincing ones 50 year old wife who has a career in the Province to Move is often a recipe for marital breakdown.

I am using these ages, because people involved in manufacturing often have 25 years of experience or more behind them.

These are all transferable skills so there is little reason to worry about getting work. Age discrimination performed by screening agencies often proves to be a barrier.

Governments should help people when companies use the bankruptcy laws as a way to mask a planned closure. Often people have their pensions, benefits, and monies stolen from them legally. The government does nothing and often gives these companies tax cuts and technology grants which the monies and saving are used in foreign countries.

As this is a common trend in Ontario, you would think the governments would do something, or people would be outraged to see their tax dollars shipped off to China or Southern US, while the province is caught with retraining costs and Service Canada pays out the EI.

But as EI is awash in Cash, I don't think the feds are thinking about anything other then the factual information that the economy is growing that employment is being created.

But stats show that the largest employment growth is in the public sector. YIKES!!!

Replacing a Manufacturing Plant with a warehouse will always have a net loss in jobs.

There really isn't much that technology can't to outside of Canada. But if we don't address the methods that companies and countries take advantage of our wimpy and lenient ways, then we are the weaklings you speak about.

Our Federal Government is WEAK!!!

I tend to agree with Lou Dobbs and his take on Shipping jobs off to China.

We need people in our news media to speak out like he does on this issue.

[madmax]

Yeh,bet do you have 22 honourary ones, like Suzuki?

I have one. Economists are not highly thought of at the best of times. One is Degree in that is enough, but you better have something to go with it.

Suzuki is something I drive.

[bush_cheney2004]

That was a great trade deal for Canada, and being a Canadian I am all for good trade deals. It did have its drawbacks, in that our multi vehicle facilities and design and managerial facilities took a back seat to the US. Canada had a problem of importing more parts for our facilities, and thus our auto ran a trade deficit. With the creation of the Auto Pact, we ran a trade surplus.

Good for us, to bad it is gone now. You win. BTW US Automakers sent word to their suppliers to relocate to China a few years ago. So enjoy.

I am enjoying....went to Shanghai in the late 90's for technology tranfer of automotive parts manufacturing. Mexico too.....no big deal....no whining...no government rescues.

If you are "all for good trade deals", then adapt to the latest variety.

Of course the base existed. It existed differently. The Auto Pact only ran from 1965 until watered down in NAFTA and finally erradicated by the WTO.

What do you think Canadians Did from 1907 till 1965? Ride Horses? Canada was a significant industrial power, and their are cities with a quite an industrial heritage.

Such an industrial power that it suffered longer during and after the Great Depression. I will research all the great Canadian auto makes with Google.

You can thank Sir John A for putting together the nuts and bolts to make it work, and Brian Mulroney for tearing it apart.

As for Banking, you wanna hear, bloody murder, let some of these financial and insurance institutions face US competition here.

They would go the way of Canadian Manufacturing in a heartbeat.

But that is fantasy, for the people who have been losing their jobs recently, they are facing a new reality.

Then they should face the new reality without self-pity and paralysis.....better to retool and adapt. Haven't they heard....automobiles are not "green".

[bush_cheney2004]

Today, many couples have to make the decision to stay in Ontario or Move to Greener pastures. To pick up and leave a 55 years of age is rather daunting to some, and convincing ones 50 year old wife who has a career in the Province to Move is often a recipe for marital breakdown.

I am using these ages, because people involved in manufacturing often have 25 years of experience or more behind them.

Daunting? Too bad....sob stories exist the world over. Ironically, the bloated cushion they were sitting on helpe to cause its demise.

There really isn't much that technology can't to outside of Canada. But if we don't address the methods that companies and countries take advantage of our wimpy and lenient ways, then we are the weaklings you speak about.

Our Federal Government is WEAK!!!

Sound like protectionism to me....good for Canada, but a bad idea for other nations?

I tend to agree with Lou Dobbs and his take on Shipping jobs off to China.

We need people in our news media to speak out like he does on this issue.

But not "Lou Dobbs and the Canadian Menace":

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/08/04/LouDobbs/

[Wilber]

Daunting? Too bad....sob stories exist the world over. Ironically, the bloated cushion they were sitting on helpe to cause its demise.

Sound like protectionism to me....good for Canada, but a bad idea for other nations?

But not "Lou Dobbs and the Canadian Menace":

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/08/04/LouDobbs/

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs has in his portfolio. See whether he puts his money where his mouth is so to speak.

[Renegade]

Will the federal government help the people who lose their jobs with their mortgages. People working in these factories have mostly all bought homes, lots of those people worked in the same place for over 20 years.

Hmm, All these people who worked for 20 years in relatively high-paid jobs, without putting enough aside for a rainy day? And now the expectation is that other taxpayers should bail them out??

[ScottSA]

Then they should face the new reality without self-pity and paralysis.....better to retool and adapt. Haven't they heard....automobiles are not "green".

That's exactly the irony of the GW hysteria. The left is all in a tizzy as to why the evil conservative menace won't do something NOW! to stop the sky from falling, or at least from eking up a degree or two over the next century. After all, we'll just change jobs, and new technologies will bloom forth creating new green jobs and we'll live happily ever after and then some. That's how it sounds from the safety of a so-far secure job, anyway. But when the actuality hits home..."oh you mean MY job?" ...it's a very different story. Then it's the evil capitalists uprooting jobs and taking them to the squalor of Asia, because, after all, Asia can pollute all it wants under Kyoto, and eco-regulations and the unions don't make it impossible to do business.

The left should realize that there are costs to all the do-gooding they have in mind. Real costs that will hit them personally, and simply wearing hemp sandals and pasting "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers of their cars won't be enough. And they should realize that asking the "government" to help means that they have to pay for it themselves, through taxes. I honestly don't think many of them actually get that.

[Oleg Bach]

That's exactly the irony of the GW hysteria. The left is all in a tizzy as to why the evil conservative menace won't do something NOW! to stop the sky from falling, or at least from eking up a degree or two over the next century. After all, we'll just change jobs, and new technologies will bloom forth creating new green jobs and we'll live happily ever after and then some. That's how it sounds from the safety of a so-far secure job, anyway. But when the actuality hits home..."oh you mean MY job?" ...it's a very different story. Then it's the evil capitalists uprooting jobs and taking them to the squalor of Asia, because, after all, Asia can pollute all it wants under Kyoto, and eco-regulations and the unions don't make it impossible to do business.

The left should realize that there are costs to all the do-gooding they have in mind. Real costs that will hit them personally, and simply wearing hemp sandals and pasting "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers of their cars won't be enough. And they should realize that asking the "government" to help means that they have to pay for it themselves, through taxes. I honestly don't think many of them actually get that.

Hey don't worry so much - welcome to the unorderly new world order - your new job is to be a bureacratic bean counter and the peasant in China is the one who actually does the real work - but eventually they will get their tech up to spead and all the I T professionals will suffer internal displacement also..so be happy you get to be a parasite and click at a computer all day long creating absolutely no wealth and getting payed for it - your days are numbered - eat drink and be merry as you continue in the illusion that technology is real work worth getting paid for - the only real work is creating shelter - clothing - roads - perhaps the medical profession...oh yes - growing food - but Mexico does that now - hope that Mexico does not do a power play and cut off our rations? This could happened - does anyone here know how to tend a garden? Better learn - in time you can turn your monitor into a planter.

[jefferiah]

Will the federal government help the people who lose their jobs with their mortgages. People working in these factories have mostly all bought homes, lots of those people worked in the same place for over 20 years.

This is something I can never understand Margrace. I am not a rich business tycoon either. But it never fails to astound me how people can think that certain jobs are "Our Jobs". It's the union mentality. Union's own the jobs.

One big problem here is unions screwing themselves. They have five people doing the job of one guy and making the job last 10 times longer. And then when they demand more and refuse to work, a private contractor sends in one guy who agrees to do the job ten times faster for less pay, they threaten him with baseball bats cuz those are "their jobs".

So if I owned a company why woudn't I move shop to someplace where people are more than happy to work at a great job.

Edited December 17, 2007 by jefferiah

[Leafless]

Every time you find a new (and presumably better) way of doing something, the old way becomes obsolete. Is that bad?

If it displaces Canada's domestic workforce, yes it is bad.

[Michael Hardner]

Olech

Hey don't worry so much - welcome to the unorderly new world order - your new job is to be a bureacratic bean counter and the peasant in China is the one who actually does the real work - but eventually they will get their tech up to spead and all the I T professionals will suffer internal displacement also..so be happy you get to be a parasite and click at a computer all day long creating absolutely no wealth and getting payed for it - your days are numbered - eat drink and be merry as you continue in the illusion that technology is real work worth getting paid for - the only real work is creating shelter - clothing - roads - perhaps the medical profession...oh yes - growing food - but Mexico does that now - hope that Mexico does not do a power play and cut off our rations? This could happened - does anyone here know how to tend a garden? Better learn - in time you can turn your monitor into a planter.

All the jobs that can go have probably already gone to China.

'Creating Wealth' can happen with a computer, or with a shovel. There's no difference, economically. If you're doing something that somebody will pay you for, then you're doing the economy.

[Michael Hardner]

The left should realize that there are costs to all the do-gooding they have in mind. Real costs that will hit them personally, and simply wearing hemp sandals and pasting "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers of their cars won't be enough.

Again, the driving force behind your distaste for all leftist ideas is this weird caricature.