1 in 5 people in Canada are now immigrants

[Argus]

And when we get there, we'll be greeted by Australia.

According to the 2006 Australian census, about 25% of Australians were born outside of Australia.

IMV, this reflects the dynamic nature of Australian (and Canadian) society. I don't see many people queuing up to live in Iran or Sudan.

I am now going to chase August right out of this thread - the same way I always do when he inserts his I love immigration posts.

August, suppose we spread the immigrants out more and make sure Quebec gets its fair share. Surely it's not right that so many immigrants come to Ontario and BC every year while Quebec gets left out. I think we should put at least 100,000 new non-french speaking immigrants into Quebec each and every year in order to make Quebec a more "dynamic" society.

And as always, I expect you to now quietly withdraw. Because, as I've already discerned, you love the idea of a dynamic multi-ethnic society - as long as you don't have to live in it.

[Argus]

According tot he CBC Toronto News this evening, 45% of the people living in Toronto now were born outside of the country and only 54% consider English to be their mother tongue.

Time for the feds to start ponying up more for the cities. McGuinty is doing his bit (at least in Ontario) and has already started uploading. Even Ottawa gets a break from McGuinty.

Screw the cities. I mean that absolutely seriously. Let them all go bankrupt.

The reason their financing is all screwed up is NOT because they don't get enough money. It's because city councils are largely populated by morons and imbeciles. And, of course, this in itself is in large measure due to the fact the NDP organizes on municipal lines, while the other parties don't.

Thus we saw the spectacle of the Ottawa city council trooping down to Parliament Hill the other day demanding more money. This is the most incompetent bunch of feeble imbeciles the moronic electorate could ever have chosen to put in office. Most of them are completely incapable of even understanding that there is a difference between "want" and "need". They can't manage a budget - most can't even manage to understand what a budget is. Like Ottawa, Toronto is managed by a similar group of morons, and from what I've seen so are most other large cities.

Let them go bankrupt, and then maybe the pie-faced idiots who vote these slack-jawed cretins into office again and again and again will actually put some effort into supervising what the morons in office do.

[Argus]

Couple of points.

Immigrants work.....in many cases at two jobs...they buy houses and pay property taxes.

Really? All of them? Cause it's funny that in every poverty stricken part of the city I see tons of non-whites who can barely speak English. Where do you suppose they're coming from?

[Argus]

I have never viewed a sheet sale.....nor do I shop much at sears.

But seriously...how xenophobic immigramts like the one you describe woulpd want to come here, when there perfectly good land in Syria?

Because you don't get welfare, baby bonus cheques, CPP, top notch medical care and first rate education for your kids in Syria.

[Argus]

You find yourself swamped? How so?

In my old neighbourhood I was swamped. It went from about 10% immigrants to about 80% immigrants over the course of a decade or so. Crime rose, values plummeted, and the area became somewhat notorious.

[Argus]

This is quite simply wrong, defeatist, and naive. There is nothing 'inevitable' about it at all.

You forget that August is a Quebecer, and a nationalist. He doesn't mind hordes of immigrants coming to live in Canada as long as Quebec controls its own immigration and limits it as they have, and ensure all those coming in speak French.

Offer to bring over 100,000 non-french speaking immigrants to Quebec every year - which is something like what Ontario is experiencing - and watch him retreat.

[Argus]

Seems a vast number of you here believe that all non-white non-western European immigrants are only here to suck off our social welfare teat.

Seems the only way you know how to discuss an issue is to make things up and then attack them - rather than what people are saying.

First off, if you are not of First Nations stock, then you to come immigrant stock.

What a dumbass cliche. It's completely irrelevent when your grandparents came here. And the natives immigrated too.

I am currently engaged to a lady from the Philippines, have been for a couple of years now (wedding is next year in Manila). She is a University educated woman who graduated with B.Comm and Finance Honours. I met her was here when she was a care-giver working with a temporary work permit/visa.

That's nice. I hope it works out for you and she's not just using you to get her passport. A lot of foreign born women do, you know. Once they're here they can safely divorce the old man who they suckered into marrying them and still keep their passport - and get half his assets to boot.

The fact remains far too many immigrants come here without the necessary skills to make it. That's why statistics show immigrants today are poorer than Canadians, and not improving. They don't have the language skills or education to make it in this kind of job market. So they wind up on welfare (every slum is filled with immigrants) or working in subsistence jobs where their low income generally means they pay no income taxes and contribute little to society.

[Argus]

Multicult? Is that a new derogatory term coin by the anti-immigration, anti-ethnics talking head brigades? Let me ask you a question Scott, where did you descendant come from originally? When did they arrive? And why did they leave their homeland to come here in the first place?

Fact is, Canada is a nation build on immigration.

More cliches. Canada was built by people who largely had the skills needed for the agricultural economy we had then. We needed lots of strong backs, not necessarily skilled and educated people. Those strong backs are not what we need now. Yet we continue to get people who have no skills of any value in our technological job market.

Furthermore, in those days, you came here, and you made it - or you went home. You didn't go on welfare or unemployment and you didn't get a pension or health care. You took care of yourself and your family or you left. Many left. That's the untold story of Canada's immigration history.

Of course, today, those who can't make it just wind up in public housing drawing welfare.

[Argus]

I just hope that a lot of new Canadians are reading this board and seeing for themselves the mentality of the conservative base. Then they can help us vote out these kind of neanderthals in the next federal election. Do you get a white hood with your conservative party membership?

Yes, and then we can have lots more Muslims and Sikhs and Hindus who are soooo evolved in their social beliefs that they still think homosexuals should be killed on sight, and women should be beaten if they say one word out of line.

I'm sure you'll be happy then!

[Argus]

What do you say to the taxi driver with a PhD in physics?

Spend some time learning how to speak more than pidgeon English and maybe you'll get a better job.

In all higher job skills excellent communications is an absolute necessity, and most immigrants lack more than very basic language skills.

[jdobbin]

In my old neighbourhood I was swamped. It went from about 10% immigrants to about 80% immigrants over the course of a decade or so. Crime rose, values plummeted, and the area became somewhat notorious.

Sorry to hear that. We've certainly seen some problems with ethnic based crime where I am but then again, we have seen a rise in Aboriginal and white biker crime as well. It all seems related to the rise in the use of hard drugs.

According to the census, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have been taking the bulk of the immigrants but that Calgary, Winnipeg, Halifax and Hamilton have had huge increases as well.

In Winnipeg and Calgary's case, the increase in immigration has been important to each city's growth. Over the decades, immigration has been important to Toronto's growth.

I have no problem with looking at creating the right mix of immigrants and assisting in integration. However, I think the government needs to look at the recent rise in drug related crime as it pertains to meth and crack.

[capricorn]

We have to reconcile the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (the right to movement) with the immigration system.

If you are going to challenge the right to movement, I'm gonna start calling you names in languages that Charles Anthony will have to research...

Higgly, I think you're referring to mobility rights. Yes, Canadians have the right of mobility.

This freedom of mobility was formally granted to all Canadians when Canada signed the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1976. The Canadian government confirmed its commitment to freedom of mobility, along with other rights and freedoms, when the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was made a part of Canada's newly repatriated constitution in 1982.

Freedom of mobility has not always been available to all Canadians. Over the course of Canada's history, many Canadians have been prevented from living and working in the communities of their choice. Sometimes this has happened because the land people wanted was controlled or reserved for some reason. Some people have had their mobility restricted because they belonged to a particular racial or ethnic group. In that case, people were told either that they were not allowed to live in a place or that they could live only in certain places.

http://www.nlhra.org/Online%20Publications/FAR/farmrh.htm

In the context of this discussion, immigrants cannot be forced to settle in specific regions of the country in order to alleviate the burden on large urban centers. I would not agree to limit the mobility rights of immigrants when it is a right enjoyed by Canadians.

[jefferiah]

I just hope that a lot of new Canadians are reading this board and seeing for themselves the mentality of the conservative base. Then they can help us vote out these kind of neanderthals in the next federal election. Do you get a white hood with your conservative party membership?

You are stretching it quite a great deal here, Mr. Greenthumb, and I am confident most Canadians who would read this would be able to see through this cheap logic. Whether you agree with it or not, the suggestion that Canada's immigration policy is very lax and that it ought to be somewhat stricter is not outright hatred of immigrants. As others have said, Canada is quite easy to emigrate to when compared with a lot of other nations. The idea is not to stop immigration but to have some sort of screening process that achieves a good balance. I don't think that warrants a white hood comment.

Lazarus, as for your Filipina woman, best of luck. I think Mike David himself has said, in a thread here not so long ago, that people from the Phillipines tend to make great productive citizens. I don't think he is saying we should bar everyone out. He seems to be suggesting a stricter immigration system than the lax one we now have in place. I don't know much about this issue, and I don't know what is the best course of action. Maybe you think we ought to have wide open floodgates. That is fine. Everyone has an opinion. But I don't think its fair to label Mike as a bigot over his suggestion.

Edited December 6, 2007 by jefferiah

[DogOnPorch]

I wonder what it would take to get more 'non-recent immigrant' Canadians to have kids? I don't think I've ever heard our government members ever bring that subject up. Have they? Growing up I recall very large families...like mine was at the time. Seven kids, etc...

What happened?

----------------------------------------------

We already have the statistics for the future: the growth percentages of pollution, overpopulation, desertification. The future is already in place.

---Gunther Grass

[capricorn]

What happened?

Well for one thing, income and other tax increases.

The days of large families are long gone.

[kengs333]

I wonder what it would take to get more 'non-recent immigrant' Canadians to have kids? I don't think I've ever heard our government members ever bring that subject up. Have they? Growing up I recall very large families...like mine was at the time. Seven kids, etc...

What happened?

----------------------------------------------

We already have the statistics for the future: the growth percentages of pollution, overpopulation, desertification. The future is already in place.

---Gunther Grass

Radical Feminism and environmental contaniments; that's what's happened.

(By the way, Gunter Grass served in the Waffen SS during WWII)

Edited December 6, 2007 by kengs333

[kengs333]

Let's not forget the Finns, the Ukes, the Krauts, the Polacks....

Before WWI Germans were among the few preferred immigrants, largely because they were hardworking farmers, industrious, efficient, and rarely complained. Then the war came along and their culture was destroyed and Canada has suffered ever since.

[DogOnPorch]

Radical Feminism and environmental contaniments; that's what's happened.

Well for one thing, income and other tax increases.

I agree...sadly.

The days of large families are long gone.

At least for those families footing the bill.

By the way, Gunter Grass served in the Waffen SS during WWII

Yes...very young and late in the war...but serve he did. The Waffen SS were the actual military branch of the SS rather than being directly associated with death camps and such. But none-the-less....

Part of the times he grew up in, unfortunately.

------------------------------------------

Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't.

---Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher

[Wilber]

Radical Feminism and environmental contaniments; that's what's happened.

(By the way, Gunter Grass served in the Waffen SS during WWII)

You can add easier and more effective birth control and abortion on demand to that. Not PC I know but no one can deny they have had an effect on the birth rate.

It's hard work and expensive to bring up a lot of kids and these days fewer people are willing either to make that commitment or feel that they are financially unable to. Most of us have to make choices between our toys and careers or kids. Toys and careers are winning out more often than they used to. By the time a lot of couples decide they want kids, the option of a large family is gone and they have one or two at most, if any.

[Wild Bill]

Higgly, I think you're referring to mobility rights. Yes, Canadians have the right of mobility.

This freedom of mobility was formally granted to all Canadians when Canada signed the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1976. The Canadian government confirmed its commitment to freedom of mobility, along with other rights and freedoms, when the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was made a part of Canada's newly repatriated constitution in 1982.

In the context of this discussion, immigrants cannot be forced to settle in specific regions of the country in order to alleviate the burden on large urban centers. I would not agree to limit the mobility rights of immigrants when it is a right enjoyed by Canadians.

This point has become "muddy" today. To grant rights to non-citizens seems bizarre. Why be a citizen? Are rights reciprocal with other countries?

The Libs declared that the Charter applies to non-citizens. Jump out of the plane and as soon as your feet hit the ground you're covered!

Of course, this was done by mere fiat. They never campaigned on the issue. They simply did it once they got in power. Similar to the change of flag and the new Charter/Constitution in the first place!

Of course, if you define democratic as anything done by the Liberals then this wouldn't bother you.

I submit that this and many other such fiats were actually contrary to the views of the majority of Canadians. Most Canadians are not political junkies and only slowly came to realize what had happened. This disconnect between the government and the will of the people caused a buildup of simmering resentment that has not stopped after all these years. It can explain Mulroney's MASSIVE majorities and the eventual repudiation of the old Tory party, the rejection by the people of the Charletown Accords and the low regard for the Liberal party in the polls today, especially in Quebec.

Anyhow, it's common sense that if you allow immigrants to move ONLY to the big cities you will develop problems! You can argue moral points all you want but you still have to cope with the associated real world issues.

I also find it interesting that no one has mentioned the numbers of immigrants that came by claiming refugee status. While of course there are genuine refugees the amount of abuse by those using the system to "jump the queue is considerable. At my own daughters' elementary school we've seen a number of "refugee" families who supposedly could not stay in their home country for fear of their lives who nonetheless take summer vacations back to their old home every year. This is fact!

We've also had a huge influx of tuberculosis cases here in Hamilton (my wife has connections with the local board of health). Apparently we have not screened immigrants or refugees for years and years. It had been decided that this was too costly so we opted to accept a letter FROM A LOCAL DOCTOR IN THE ORIGINATING COUNTRY as to having done all tests and immunization shots!

How much do you think that letter costs in countries like Sudan? How easy is it to forge?

All this talk about immigration criteria is totally moot! The system is broken and a total sham! We get good immigrants IN SPITE of the system, not because of it!

And the Liberals never cared because it got them new votes! And not just the Liberals. In Toronto there was a serious motion to allow non-citizens to vote! I wondered why they were bothering. The scrutineering system of someone knocking on your door asking how many citizens of voting age are in your house has been totally an honour system since the last Ice Age. No one checks unless there's a challenge and no one will challenge either for fear of being accused as a racist or perhaps because they have fraudulent "shills" of their own!

[mikedavid00]

I've read through this thread in amazed disbelief. Since when did Canada and Canadians become such closed minded, closed hearted and ignorant gits?

No one is close minded and ignorant. We can't afford to have people just wandering into Canada any longer.

Seems a vast number of you here believe that all non-white non-western European immigrants are only here to suck off our social welfare teat.

They are here to better their lives. That is at our expense.

That it is a piece of cake immigrating here.

It is a peice of cake. You just don't understand the 1rst rule of immigrating to Canada:

Patience.

That the majority of non-white non-western European immigrants are a net loss to Canada as a whole.

Recently they have become a net loss to the lives of Canadians. The quality of life for a Canadian decreases in almost all economical and welfare state aspects when modern immigrants without a job.

Your fiance was a VERY rare case of a guest worker that was here on a work permit.

Which I support.

One gets the feeling many of you would just love to slam the door shut on these "undesirable" non-white non-western European immigrants.

No. That's a picture you paint in your head. I don't think people here were too egar to have the polish man who got tasered to come to Canada. This is the problem with our system, not your fiance here as a guest worker which ultimately HELPS our economy.

I am currently engaged to a lady from the Philippines, have been for a couple of years now (wedding is next year in Manila).

Be careful. Yes she's eduated and very smart. Smart enough to know how to get into other countries.

Just like you have a story, there are many others with stories similar to yours that don't have a happy ending. Go on a yahoo chat and you will have Filipino women all of the chats looking for husbands. I remeber a/s/l - 21/f/fil

She is a University educated woman who graduated with B.Comm and Finance Honours.

Canada does not have enough employment for her over here when we can't even fill jobs for our own grads. She might get lucky, but I highly doubt it.

I met her was here when she was a care-giver working with a temporary work permit/visa.

Wow. That's a miracle. You are the first person I ever heard of, or met in my life that even knows someone that came here on work permit. We should only allow people like her in.

She came here in order to support her family back in the Philippines.

Hehe.. don't be so sure about that. Trust me.

We dated for 18 months, until her permit expired and she dutifully went back home.

AMEN!

Somoene who actually came to Canada, benefitted both parties, and then left. AMEN!! A FUNCTIONING IMMIGRATION STORY

While going through the Immigration process, I meet dozen of other in the same boat telling the same story. Getting ones family here from overseas is not as easy as the press and talking heads would have you believe.

It is easy. You just aren't patient enough.

There are 10,000's clogging the system just like you trying to get loved ones over. The difference is, you are a Canadian, those also marrying are not even Canadians at all. Thus the system is clogged for the rare cases of people who need it like you.

Second story is about a family that immigrated here from China. He was a businessman and she was a trained electrical engineer who specialized in power transmission and generation and held a Master Degree in Engineering.

We've heard this story a million times.

There are NOT jobs in the engineering field for these people. Grads are not even finding work. Education means nothing when you can't comprehend an email and have trouble with basic English.

Canada is not a charity. We are a socialist country with capitalist values. We are NOT a world charity. Our lives come first.

She taught electrical engineering in Beijing and authored a number of text books that are still in use to this day.

That is the third time i've heard the 'text book' claim. I've met someone from Iran who claimed this, I saw another report on the CBC about immigration where some aunty claimed she wrote part of a text book. Now for the third time i'm hearing someone make claims that they wrote part of a textbook. 3 times a charm. They are such experts in their craft that they are writing text books.

China is a communist country yet the lady is a master in business and economics. She'll come into Canada and show us how it's done. How to do it properly. After all, she wrote the book on the subject. No pun intended.

Canada needed people with her skill sets, training and experience, so they got fast-tracked.

No they didn't. That's where the lies are. That's where the disconnect is. All economic immigrants are 'fast tracked'. Instead of waiting 3 years you wait 1 or 2. It's all part of the game.

Once they landed here, they learned that her qualifications amounted to a pile of rancid dog crap as far governing body of Electrical Engineers of BC were concerned.

THey know that before arriving these days. Everyone knows that there's no jobs in Canada. It's all over the immigrant forums. It's a WELL KNOWN FACT that we don't have professional jobs here. Even for Canadians. They aren't coming here for that though or else they would go back to where they came from.

Last I heard she is still in that factory doing manual labour while trying to raise her son on her own. Her husband has since divorced her and remarried.

Divorce happens. Becuase you have an foreign born fiance, it does NOT mean you aren't going to get divorced despite what she and others might have you believe:

http://www.visapro.com/Message-Board/showthread.php?t=19032

Go read about what can happen.

Ultimately, I wish you well and hope that nothing bad happens after she arrives.

Just to let you know, she's allowed to visit here and live here illegally with you while she is still able to apply for a spouce visa.. even if you are considered common law and don't actually get married.

Our immigration rules are made to be broken. Get her over here on a visit if you can, she'll stay with you, have a child, and then live with you illegally while you apply for resident status under common law partner. Get married then and your claim will garutneed go through becuase she has a child. She'll also be entitled to many benifits. She will then continue to bring her family over on family sponsorship while her family lives with you and all of a sudden no one in your house is speaking English.

And you can become another sad tale of a neieve man who got used. Your life beign turned into an immigration hell. Your house turning into an international hotel.. until you are the one almost pushed out the door.

Good luck to you and give this whole thing a sober second thought of where you want to take your life. You only get one shot at it. And your legacy shouldn't be getting used to benefit another families dreams.

Edited December 6, 2007 by mikedavid00

[M.Dancer]

It is a peice of cake. You just don't understand the 1rst rule of immigrating to Canada:

Pacience.

Before we let any more immigrants in we should spend more time and money making sure that home grown canadians can both read and write.

[mikedavid00]

Those hard working immigrants had no interest in living on welfare,

There was no welfare.

You had to go to the police station if you needed emergency assistance.

[mikedavid00]

In all higher job skills excellent communications is an absolute necessity, and most immigrants lack more than very basic language skills.

That is so true.

Education matters when you are directly out of school. Real jobs care about work experience and communication. A degree is just a line item at the back of your resume. Only the gov't and other illigitimate jobs care about paper certs and such.

Edited December 6, 2007 by mikedavid00

[Leafless]

Before we let any more immigrants in we should spend more time and money making sure that home grown canadians can both read and write.

You mean like how you spelled "canadians".

Obviously you are not a believer of your own diatribe.