1 in 5 people in Canada are now immigrants

[mikedavid00]

According to the census, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have been taking the bulk of the immigrants but that Calgary, Winnipeg, Halifax and Hamilton have had huge increases as well.

There has not been HUGE increases in those cities. Go re-read the cencus.

Please don't spread falsehoods around.

[mikedavid00]

At my own daughters' elementary school we've seen a number of "refugee" families who supposedly could not stay in their home country for fear of their lives who nonetheless take summer vacations back to their old home every year. This is fact!

Yes. That's just goes without saying.. i mean.. look at Meher Arar.. . I had a co-worker who 'fled pakistan!!' because he was being 'persecuted!!' just to go back every winter and bring more family over. I also love it how they keep their origional citizenship of the country they left.

We've also had a huge influx of tuberculosis cases here in Hamilton (my wife has connections with the local board of health). Apparently we have not screened immigrants or refugees for years and years. It had been decided that this was too costly so we opted to accept a letter FROM A LOCAL DOCTOR IN THE ORIGINATING COUNTRY as to having done all tests and immunization shots!

This again is goes without saying. The letters are faked very, very easily. There's no real medical exam. Everyone knows this...

Actually most Canadians don't know this.

What was suprising to all Canadians, is when 50,000 people were in Lebanon. That was shocking to most people.

Speaking of that, since your in Hamilton, I was listening to the CBC radio and they were showcasing some school in Hamilton where the kids are learning Arabic through half days of schools in a pilot program. When it's Arabic time, you are not allowed to speak English.

In our own public school system.

Half the stories I never even bring up on the forum becuase I just have so many.

[M.Dancer]

You mean like how you spelled "canadians".

Obviously you are not a believer of your own diatribe.

You have a problem with the correct spelling? And while you are improving your broken english, you might want to look up diatribe so that you might use it correctly and impress your friends at your remedial english class.....

[mikedavid00]

broken english

lol..

[guyser]

... some school in Hamilton where the kids are learning Arabic through half days of schools in a pilot program. When it's Arabic time, you are not allowed to speak English.

In our own public school system.

Just like Italian class , French class (or French School) , German class , and zoot alors...in our own public school system.

Half the stories I never even bring up on the forum becuase I just have so many.

..probably much like your links and investigative research. Not valid and not pertinent.

[Moxie]

Just like Italian class , French class (or French School) , German class , and zoot alors...in our own public school system.

..probably much like your links and investigative research. Not valid and not pertinent.

MikeDavid's point of view is pertinent to me. Speak for yourself, you are a poster on this forum not the voice of this forum.

A suggestion guyser, try debating instead of constantly attacking posters with your nonsensical diatribe.

Dancer the definitionof Diatribe: A piece of bitter criticism, invective, discourse, denounciation.

Leafless used it correctly Dancer, in future if you are going to be the forum "English Critic" could you please ask permission from Charles. Of course I may not of gotten the memo announcing your new forum "Position".

Mike, I've been told one has won a debate when the left starts pouncing on you for typos. I guess you won the debate.

[daniel]

I just glad the views of this forum aren't reflected in the general population. I look forward to the day when the term "visible minority" is irrelevant because then everybody will be one.

[Argus]

According to the census, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have been taking the bulk of the immigrants but that Calgary, Winnipeg, Halifax and Hamilton have had huge increases as well.

In Winnipeg and Calgary's case, the increase in immigration has been important to each city's growth. Over the decades, immigration has been important to Toronto's growth.

Why is growth important? Can you state how the growth in the size of Toronto over the past 25 years has, in any way, shape or form, made it a better place to live, or made the city better off as an economic entity?

You see, I was in Toronto 25 years ago. I thought it worked better as a city then. There were no street gangs, less congestion, less poverty, fewer "no go" areas, less ethnic tension, and fewer economic problems for the city.

[Argus]

I just glad the views of this forum aren't reflected in the general population. I look forward to the day when the term "visible minority" is irrelevant because then everybody will be one.

Another lefty who hates Canada.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Argus

[guyser]

MikeDavid's point of view is pertinent to me. Speak for yourself, you are a poster on this forum not the voice of this forum.

A suggestion guyser, try debating instead of constantly attacking posters with your nonsensical diatribe.

Pertinent should not equal false. But if that is your horse, enjoy the falsehoods.

Nonsensical diatribe. Hey thanks! Kind of like the Arabic school falsehoods that were posted? That kind of diatribe?

Perhaps if you had the history of mikeD's falsehoods with respect to immigration you might not want to back his position. But knock yourself out.

MikeD posts incorrect , and outright falsehoods with respect to immigration. Even his links suggest the opposite of what he is trying to say.

Mike, I've been told one has won a debate when the left starts pouncing on you for typos. I guess you won the debate.

You miss the point entirely.

[daniel]

Another lefty who hates Canada.

A trolling strawman.

[jdobbin]

Why is growth important? Can you state how the growth in the size of Toronto over the past 25 years has, in any way, shape or form, made it a better place to live, or made the city better off as an economic entity?

You see, I was in Toronto 25 years ago. I thought it worked better as a city then. There were no street gangs, less congestion, less poverty, fewer "no go" areas, less ethnic tension, and fewer economic problems for the city.

You're probably right about the congestion since the growth of the suburbs means more car traffic.

There were more murders and overall crime in Toronto 25 years ago. The statistics bear that out. I have no idea about street gangs.

The economic problems in Toronto seem to be self inflicted by the province and the city itself. Toronto taxes are lower than surrounding areas.

Toronto is more prosperous now, homeownership is up over rentals and GDP is up from 25 years earlier. Unemployment is down from 25 years earlier.

The city might be different from the ones that you remembered and maybe worse off in some ways but it certainly doesn't have more crime or is less prosperous than it was 25 years ago.

I know that in Winnipeg, the growth has been hugely important for economic growth.

[guyser]

Why is growth important? Can you state how the growth in the size of Toronto over the past 25 years has, in any way, shape or form, made it a better place to live, or made the city better off as an economic entity?

You see, I was in Toronto 25 years ago. I thought it worked better as a city then. There were no street gangs, less congestion, less poverty, fewer "no go" areas, less ethnic tension, and fewer economic problems for the city.

Show me an economist that thinks stagnation is better. Growth is a double edged sword.With the good comes the bad.

It is a better place to live in that the diversity offered is second to none in this country , and in some cases, this continent.

There have been street gangs as long as I have been in this city , and I was born here. If you are suggesting that they seem more prominent , then I would agree with you.

Less poverty? I dont think I can disagree , but that is not a problem unique to TO only. What we do get that is not factored into the Utopia you recall, is that the poor , and the homeless, migrate to TO since it offers the most beds, the most places to grab a free meal, the centre of social programmes is here, so in effect why wouldnt they come here.

Congestion is the result of 5M people trying to get around , and the lack of foresight by some planners . When succession after succession of Mayors and council being radical socialists, being anti-car, being fiscally naive , well then you get what we have. In spite of all this, things do move pretty well.

Couple that with the downloads the city gets, and the lack of money sent to assist in funding the same downloads means something has to give.

As for no-go areas, I would bet they are virtually the same. For instance I can tell you three spots that used to be no -go areas but are not that way anymore. One is Parkdale. Used to be filled with stately homes and mid to upper-mid class families. Then it hit the skids and throughout the late 80's into just recently, it was not a nice place. Hookers, rooming houses, crime all well founded there.

Now the homes are getting refurbished due to their elegant structure and prices are through the roof. The second is Leslieville and it too is seeing a surge in new owners moving in and regentrification happening all over the place.Last is Riverdale , and it too had many problems, but now that place is where everyone wants to live. Sales up 53% over last year.

The point is that some areas are bad, and perhaps people hear about these "new" spots but forget to erase the fact that the old spots are quite nice places to have a home.

As for ethnic tension , I dont see it nor do I hear about it, anymore than it ever was that is. So no idea what you mean or hear.

The economic problems for the city as stated earlier are not all of their own doing.

And if it is so bad , I seriously doubt that 7313 homes would have been bought and sold.(gta)

As for working better, it was smaller, so I guess in someways you are right. But man, this was one dull place back then. It wasnt much earlier , maybe a decade or decade and a half, that the City would put chains on swings for Sundays. Couldnt have fun you know. LCBO still had counter service where you filled out a slip and some guy would bring it out of the back. Movies were not shown on Sundays. Boring.....

Then we got baseball in the 70's, became the third best place for theatre on the planet, Ontario Place, Science Centre, Wonderland, a dearth of fine dining spots with plenty of thanks to the immigrant, and so on. The diversity that followed with festivals et al enlivening the city makes it a pretty damn good place to live and raise kids.

The dearth of families trying to live downtown is astonishing. There are not enough homes to satisfy this demand, and any that are can be had for $750,000 on the low end. And that is a small home.

As an economic entity, the flow of money out of TO to Queens park and to Ottawa is staggering and far exceeding any return monies. So, as an economic entity, this city provides a dearth of things to the rest of the province, and in some ways, the country.

[kengs333]

Yes...very young and late in the war...but serve he did. The Waffen SS were the actual military branch of the SS rather than being directly associated with death camps and such. But none-the-less....

Part of the times he grew up in, unfortunately.

It doesn't matter how young he was, though; Canada is currently trying to expell a handful of supposed war criminals, one of whom claims that at the age of 17 he was forced to become a translator for an SS unit in the Ukraine and never served in a combat role. The thing about Grass is that he hid the fact while being a leading left-wing intellectual; the influence that this man has had on several generations of Germans is immense. Also making the excuse that he was in the Waffen SS as opposed to one of the other branches is lame; the Waffen SS in its own right was brutal with civilians and did sometimes participate in the hunt for "partisans". In the dting days of the war they were also known to gun down members of the Wehrmacht who no longer wanted to fight, execute allied prisoners, etc.

[Riverwind]

Show me an economist that thinks stagnation is better. Growth is a double edged sword.With the good comes the bad.

Economic growth is not the same as population growth. Economic growth is good - population growth is bad. Any economic model that depends on a perpetually increasing population is a poor model that will eventually come crashing down. Edited December 7, 2007 by Riverwind

[kengs333]

No worries. It is like it always is, some are scared all the time by the little brown man and/or any other immigrant type.

They will always ask for proof of why we need them, but rarely, if ever, offer up any proof as to why we dont.

"They" want to keep discussing in the "feelings" mode.

And what is funny is that most of the anti's dont live in Mtl TO or Van . Oh well, be scared.

Your brilliance at misunderstanding and misrepresenting other people's opinions never ceases to amaze me.

I think if you were to really atlk to members of the Chinese or Muslim community you'd realize just how intolerant and bigoted they are; moreover, the one's that I've talked to don't really seem to consider Canada to be all that great of a place, rather is just a place where they can improve their lot in life and fund their family and lifestyle in the old country.

Skin colour has nothing to do with it for me, at least, as I'd love to see preference given to Japanese and members of Commonwealth countries, people who are already rooted in a western style education system and have the ability (or capacity to learn effectively) the English language.

[guyser]

Economic growth is not the same as population growth. Economic growth is good - population growth is bad. Any economic model that depends of a perpetually increasing population is a poor model that will eventually come crashing down.

I cannot argue that on its surface.Except for the pop is bad.

And I will be up front , I am not an economist if it wasnt apparent. If on its own , pop growth would be a Ponzi scheme. In some ways I bet it kind of is.

But, with eco growth comes , historically, the pop growth. Nothing could be produced in greater numbers if not with the increased pop to man the machines , the docks, the office etc. We are at this time able to produce more with less manpower, but the shift includes the emerging support lines that occur. Service for one.

If the attraction is not there anymore (the reason for someone moving here) then they will move elsewhere to gain employment. They will source the spots that are in an eco boom and they will make a pop boom. Look at Alberta. The eco grew, followed by the pop. When that is over, they will go home to nfld (kind of a joke) or back to Ont, like they have done before.

[guyser]

Your brilliance at misunderstanding and misrepresenting other people's opinions never ceases to amaze me.

I know I know, at least the brilliance part. As for the other, well , make no mistake, there are people on this board who run scared all the time at the "overwhelming" influx of people, (it isnt occuring) and demand that we close the borders (we arent) to preserve our culture , when our culture is not in any jeopardy.

I think if you were to really atlk to members of the Chinese or Muslim community you'd realize just how intolerant and bigoted they are; moreover, the one's that I've talked to don't really seem to consider Canada to be all that great of a place, rather is just a place where they can improve their lot in life and fund their family and lifestyle in the old country.

So, if I were to say the opposite, then what? My interactions with immigrants are mainly Guyanese, Trini's and since I work n Markham, the chinese. Its not that I ask them , but no one offers up any dissatisfaction with life in Canada, at least not in any numbers greater than those born here.

Skin colour has nothing to do with it for me, at least, as I'd love to see preference given to Japanese and members of Commonwealth countries, people who are already rooted in a western style education system and have the ability (or capacity to learn effectively) the English language.

Good luck with that. Japanese do not immigrate much, at least to here. Might have something to do with Canada not allowing Japanese to immigrate from 1940 to 1967.From 1928 to 1940, only 150 were allowed to do so each year by our govt.

[M.Dancer]

Dancer the definitionof Diatribe: A piece of bitter criticism, invective, discourse, denounciation.

My post had no invective nor was there a denounciation of any sort and it wasn't even a critisism. Better hurry, the spots in the remedial english class are going fast.....

[M.Dancer]

You see, I was in Toronto 25 years ago. I thought it worked better as a city then. There were no street gangs, less congestion, less poverty, fewer "no go" areas, less ethnic tension, and fewer economic problems for the city.

Note sure what part of Toronto you lived or is you followed the news.....I moved to toronto 23 years. Toronto could have been described back then as the largest small town in Canada that thought it was NYC. Small town mentality, big city issues.

There were latino and portiguese gangs in the Christie pits, Jamiacan Gangs in Mississaga and the racial tension between white anglo ontarians against everyonne else was palpable.

Since then the anglo ontarians have learned that immigrants don't eat babies and the tension that was so evident 23 years ago is pretty much non existant.

Toronto is a far better place to live now than in 1983.

[marcinmoka]

For example,

about one in five immigrants and

their children hold university degrees,

compared with one in seven of those

who have been in Canada for three

or more generations.

Link: Statscan

Damn them and their respect for education and hard work.

In fact, when it comes to the children of Chinese immigrants, I think the figure is closer to 1/3.

How can we as Canadians accept this barbarity.

In terms of the valorization of education, hard work and perseverance, I think the Jews are facing stiff competition, were it not for their secret weapon, the perpetually nagging triumvirate consisting of the wife, the mother and the grandmother.

[daniel]

It's no coincidence that Canada has been consistently listed amongst the top ten countries in which to live - sometimes even in the top five.

However, I'm sure that nipper-tipping is one activity that's a factor in keeping us from reaching #1 status. An activity I'm sure some members of this forum don't condemn.

[Argus]

A trolling strawman.

People like you have always been guilt ridden, and hated Canada. You want it to be filled with foreigners so you can feel a little less guilt and shame in your whiteness.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Argus

[Argus]

Show me an economist that thinks stagnation is better. Growth is a double edged sword.With the good comes the bad.

Stagnation means to go bad, does it not? How does staying at roughly the same population equate to going bad?

It is a better place to live in that the diversity offered is second to none in this country , and in some cases, this continent.

Funny how NO ONE calls it "New York run by the Swiss" like they used to. Funny how NO ONE says "Boy, i wish we could live in Toronto". Toronto is a sad mess of congestion and violence where people are afraid to send their kids to schools, a place with a growing network of slums filled with an underclass of unemployable visible minorities - almost all of them immigrants and the children of immigrants.

There have been street gangs as long as I have been in this city , and I was born here. If you are suggesting that they seem more prominent , then I would agree with you.

There were never street gangs in the sense they have them now. There was no such thing as drive bys, and if "gangs" fought it wasn't in the form of murderous shootouts in the middle of downtown. "Toronto the Good". Remember that? No one uses it any more. Remember how people used to take pride in how clean the city was? What a laugh. Not these days. It's neither clean, nor safe, nor well-run.

So how is it better again? Oh right, diversity. That's what pops your cork. Nothing else really matters.

[Argus]

Link: Statscan

Damn them and their respect for education and hard work.

Problem is that many of those with university degrees are working as taxi drivers or janitors because they don't speak English well enough to be hired in a professional capacity.

Btw, immigrants are also more likely than Canadian born to have less than a high school education, and more likely than Canadians - by a wider margin - of having less than a grade eight education.