Harper appoints Bernard Lord

[capricorn]

Lord's proposals are likely going to be controversial in parts of the west. It will alienate the base for the Conservatives who have never accepted the French language in federal offices outside of Quebec.

jd, listen to yourself. Lord hasn't even begun his work yet and you're already surmising how his report will be received. I could understand if you knew the contents of his final report following his work but your conclusions are a bit premature.

[jdobbin]

jd, listen to yourself. Lord hasn't even begun his work yet and you're already surmising how his report will be received. I could understand if you knew the contents of his final report following his work but your conclusions are a bit premature.

It really doesn't matter what report says. Any talk about the French language gets the back up for many in the west. I've seen it too many times not to know what the reaction will be.

Edited December 5, 2007 by jdobbin

[Michael Bluth]

jd, listen to yourself. Lord hasn't even begun his work yet and you're already surmising how his report will be received. I could understand if you knew the contents of his final report following his work but your conclusions are a bit premature.

It doesn't really matter what the report says. Anything done by the Conservatives is going to be interpreted negatively by jd. I've seen it too many times not to know what the reaction will be.

[jdobbin]

A pessimist would say that Harper is pandering to voters that are left of Center. An optimist would say that the Conservatives are trying to govern for all Canadians. A pragmatist like myself says, I don't really care - because the government is addressing issues from pretty much a central viewpoint. Most times they'll tip a bit right - but sometimes a teeny bit left (oh my god!)......but let's face it, any successful government has to placate their core constituency while extending their reach and broadening their base. You do that by sanding off the rough edges on the right and reaching beyond the center to address concerns of the center left. Harper's playing the pragmatist - slow and steady - incremental, comfortable change.

On the French language there is very little placating that can be done in the west. On something as simple as bilingual parking tickets in Winnipeg which as a fair size French population and a constitutional history of extending French rights, the issue exploded in one of fury.

I'm not saying that Harper shouldn't try to work with the French language and follow Lord's advice. I'm saying that the west has routinely been hostile to it.

[capricorn]

I'm saying that the west has routinely been hostile to it.

All jurisdictions outside Ottawa are routinely hostile about the policies of the central government foisted on regions.

[jdobbin]

All jurisdictions outside Ottawa are routinely hostile about the policies of the central government foisted on regions.

I wouldn't go that far. Language has been a particular sticking point even when it is the provinces that are making the policy, not just Ottawa.

Edited December 5, 2007 by jdobbin

[capricorn]

Language has been a particular sticking point over when it is the provinces that are making the policy, not just Ottawa.

I'm not referring to matters that are the exclusive purview of the provinces. Are you saying provinces set their own language policies?

[jdobbin]

I'm not referring to matters that are the exclusive purview of the provinces. Are you saying provinces set their own language policies?

They have and when they have done so, it has been controversial.

[capricorn]

They have and when they have done so, it has been controversial.

Especially when the Commissioner on Official Languages gets involved.

To get back to Bernard Lord's committee, let's hope he does a thorough job. The demographics of this country are changing. What worked 25 years ago may not work today and the whole approach to official languages needs to be re-thought. This is a necessary and worthwhile exercise.

[Michael Bluth]

To get back to Bernard Lord's committee, let's hope he does a thorough job. The demographics of this country are changing. What worked 25 years ago may not work today and the whole approach to official languages needs to be re-thought. This is a necessary and worthwhile exercise.

It is.

As long as people approach it with an open mind Lord has the background and mandate to do some good for the country.

Those who are already pre-judging his work ... well that goes to show that not all liberal leaning Canadians have an open mind.

[jdobbin]

Especially when the Commissioner on Official Languages gets involved.

To get back to Bernard Lord's committee, let's hope he does a thorough job. The demographics of this country are changing. What worked 25 years ago may not work today and the whole approach to official languages needs to be re-thought. This is a necessary and worthwhile exercise.

The Commissioner wasn't involved in New Brunswick or Manitoba's problems.

If Harper is planning a retreat on extending French services, he is hurt in Quebec. If he extends French services to the rest of Canada, he is hurt elsewhere. That hasn't changed much in 25 years.

[capricorn]

Those who are already pre-judging his work ... well that goes to show that not all liberal leaning Canadians have an open mind.

It also brings into question their commitment to the principle that this country was founded by two linguistic groups, English and French. This was the vision championed by Pearson and Trudeau, and generally embraced by Liberals. Now Harper is paying attention to official languages in Canada and this is seen by Liberals as a bad thing? The Liberal vision gets more confusing as time goes on.

[Michael Bluth]

Now Harper is paying attention to official languages in Canada and this is seen by Liberals as a bad thing? The Liberal vision gets more confusing as time goes on.

I don't think it's a *vision* anymore.

More power for the sake of it and nothing else.

Pearson would never have become Prime Minister leading the Liberals of today.

There is no way a Liberal leader would be able to lead the party into a third election after suffering two losses.

[capricorn]

The Commissioner wasn't involved in New Brunswick or Manitoba's problems.

If a province wants to declare itself bilingual (English and French) the federal government would not object. If Manitoba has linguistic problems, it will handle its problems internally and as it sees fit providing the provisions of the Official Languages Act are respected. If any province breaches the Official Languages Act, it will get its fingers rapped by the Commissioner.

If Harper is planning a retreat on extending French services, he is hurt in Quebec. If he extends French services to the rest of Canada, he is hurt elsewhere. That hasn't changed much in 25 years.

Harper has not made any moves other than asking Lord to review federal official languages policies and practices. There you go again anticipating his actions before anything has gone down.

[August1991]

Pearson would never have become Prime Minister leading the Liberals of today.

That's an interesting, and I think correct, point. Even John Turner got two kicks at the can.

The Liberals have been taken over by card-sharks and backroom players. Their only purpose now is to get power and then feel important.

----

As to Lord's appointment, I am of two minds: Harper must be thinking about winning a majority (yes, Harper too wants power) and Harper is on record about his views of bilingualism. I think appointing Lord is a smart move on both counts. Harper is sending out a signal that he wants bilingualism in Canada's federal state to work differently without compromising on the status of French in North America. Lord revamped the Official Languages Act in New Brunswick.

[jdobbin]

It also brings into question their commitment to the principle that this country was founded by two linguistic groups, English and French. This was the vision championed by Pearson and Trudeau, and generally embraced by Liberals. Now Harper is paying attention to official languages in Canada and this is seen by Liberals as a bad thing? The Liberal vision gets more confusing as time goes on.

Harper wasn't paying attention to the language issue and that is why he fared poorly with Official Languages Commissioner.

I have no problem if Harper wants to extend French language rights. I'm just saying it isn't an issue that does well in the west. You disagree with that?

[jdobbin]

If a province wants to declare itself bilingual (English and French) the federal government would not object. If Manitoba has linguistic problems, it will handle its problems internally and as it sees fit providing the provisions of the Official Languages Act are respected. If any province breaches the Official Languages Act, it will get its fingers rapped by the Commissioner.

Harper has not made any moves other than asking Lord to review federal official languages policies and practices. There you go again anticipating his actions before anything has gone down.

The Official Languages Commissioner doesn't rap provincial fingers. It is concerned with federal services.

I've said straight out that the review itself is subject to controversy. Just listening to Charles Adler today seems to be an indication of that.

[capricorn]

The Official Languages Commissioner doesn't rap provincial fingers. It is concerned with federal services.

You obviously have never read an annual report of the Commissioner.

I've said straight out that the review itself is subject to controversy. Just listening to Charles Adler today seems to be an indication of that.

Talk shows are a definitive source of public sentiment.

[jdobbin]

That's an interesting, and I think correct, point. Even John Turner got two kicks at the can.

The Liberals have been taken over by card-sharks and backroom players. Their only purpose now is to get power and then feel important.

----

As to Lord's appointment, I am of two minds: Harper must be thinking about winning a majority (yes, Harper too wants power) and Harper is on record about his views of bilingualism. I think appointing Lord is a smart move on both counts. Harper is sending out a signal that he wants bilingualism in Canada's federal state to work differently without compromising on the status of French in North America. Lord revamped the Official Languages Act in New Brunswick.

Turner got a second kick at the can because he was able to fend off Chretien at the 1986 convention and subsequently showed a boost in the polls to the point that the Liberals were showing majority support prior to the 1988 election. Turner doubled the seat count for the Liberals but a CBC report indicating that some in the party were looking to replace Turner with Chretien sent support downward.

The rest of your views on the Liberals you have mentioned before and could be said of all parties by the cynical.

I think you forget what the result was of the Lord's changes to the Official Languages Act in New Brunswick: The Liberals won more seats in the English part of the province since 1944. The changes were not without controversy and led to his defeat.

[jdobbin]

You obviously have never read an annual report of the Commissioner.

Talk shows are a definitive source of public sentiment.

I've read many a report and the criticism is with services provided by the federal government.

Here is the last one:

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/toc_tdm_2006_07_ar_ra_e.php

Don't see provincial governments being rapped.

Since Adler has a large following in the west, I'd say that it reflects a certain thinking on the issue.

[Michael Bluth]

The Liberals have been taken over by card-sharks and backroom players. Their only purpose now is to get power and then feel important.

----

As to Lord's appointment, I am of two minds: Harper must be thinking about winning a majority (yes, Harper too wants power) and Harper is on record about his views of bilingualism. I think appointing Lord is a smart move on both counts. Harper is sending out a signal that he wants bilingualism in Canada's federal state to work differently without compromising on the status of French in North America. Lord revamped the Official Languages Act in New Brunswick.

I believe that takeover as you call it was a long, long time ago. Towards the end of the Turner regime.

The appointment of Lord is smart on a third front. It keeps Lord in the public eye, making him more viable as a candidate in the next election if that comes to pass.

[Leafless]

Lord revamped the Official Languages Act in New Brunswick.

So what did Lord actually do outside of:

Under the Charter, New Brunswick Anglophones and Francophones have the right to distinct educational institutions and such distinct cultural institutions as are necessary for the preservation and promotion of those communities. The Charter also affirms the role of the legislature and government of New Brunswick to preserve and promote these rights and privileges and equality of status.

This is providing that:

The new Act will apply to all seven cities in New Brunswick as well as any municipality with a minority anglophone or francophone population of 20 per cent or more.

How is this so different compared to other municipalities in Canada 'where numbers warrant' excluding of course the requirement of undemocratically forcing seven cities in New Brunswick to adhere to the new legislation.

http://www.gnb.ca/cnb/promos/languages-langues/cron-e.asp

Why should lord be commended for forcing this kind of draconian language legislation on cities in New Brunswick.

[capricorn]

Don't see provincial governments being rapped.

You're right that the Commissioner has not criticized provinces directly in the annual report. The Commissioner may find non-compliance in federally regulated institutions but the Province where the non-compliance occurred is not an issue.

[M.Dancer]

Why should lord be commended for forcing this kind of draconian language legislation on cities in New Brunswick.

Given that you thought the former Premier of Nouveau Brunswick was a Quebec politician, is it worthwhile mentioning to you that the Province has been bilingual since 1969?

Probably not.....

[Topaz]

Harper will probably go with the low as far as the languages of French and English in Canada. He has two ministers, one being Bernier, who did alot of talking in English but his accent is so bad at times,so he speaks in French in question period. There also another from Quebec a woman, sorry can't remember her name, but she also only talks in French and of course the The Bloc speak in French except Dueppe does speak in English in question period at times.