pcml Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ALTERNET? You have a problem with them? I do not. And it had no virus for me and yes people can just do a simple search for their own links to the very same stories. We must remember that no weapon has ever been invented that has not then been over used. Do not fill in that old bomb shelter is one thing I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcml Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) RCMP watchdog slams officers who tasered Dziekanski http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Rights-Justice/2009/12/08/WatchdogSlams/ Edited December 9, 2009 by pcml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcml Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I guess Shavluk was as suspected completely correct all along .....http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/coroner-rules-dziekanski-death-at-hands-of-mounties-was-a-homicide-201987081.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlived Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) I guess Shavluk was as suspected completely correct all along ..... http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/coroner-rules-dziekanski-death-at-hands-of-mounties-was-a-homicide-201987081.html yeah, there was probably contributing causes, but the taserings were likely a major factor in the heart failure. Was there some doubt in how being tasered multiple times and a heart attack occuring at the same time might be related. Tax dollars at work. with each additional application it leads to greater contractions and increased acidosis, with increases in acidosis heart rate increases... it is self fullfilling, if an already excited heart rate exists, there is cause to push the heart rate beyond safe levels and lead to heart failure. Obviously a highly stressed and adrenalin induced person will already have an extremely elevated heart rate so increasing heart acidosis can contribute to heart attack much more easily than tasering a calm individual, not that you should need to. Now if that individual already has high blood pressure it is even greater risk. These things are no brainers for anyone who understand the basics of medical science. However gun shots lead to blood loss and trauma... Obviously there is a flaw in how the mounties procedure exists 1. they should have contacted a polish translator or a polish consulate or embassy. That was the point of failure. If detaining foreign nationals you should immediately contact their consulate or embassy of that intent. Edited April 9, 2013 by shortlived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) yeah, there was probably contributing causes, but the taserings were likely a major factor in the heart failure.How nice of you to opine without reading the link. So there was "probably contributing causes"...... Yes well, a Doctor is stated as saying... His report also found no other factors in the death, including drugs. "(The) autopsy showed no significant injuries and no natural disease process that would have likely led to sudden death," the report said These things are no brainers for anyone who understand the basics of medical science. Are you a Doctor or just a lousy reader? LOL! Edited April 9, 2013 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlived Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) How nice of you to opine without reading the link. So there was "probably contributing causes"...... Yes well, a Doctor is stated as saying... Are you a Doctor or just a lousy reader? LOL! The doctor is wrong, his heart rate was elevated due to adreniline, brought on by his rage, and physical exertion. Doctors arn't always right. What they are looking for is unnatural causes. He probably would have lived if he didn't have a high level of adrenaline in his system. Catecholamines (noradrenaline and adrenaline) are catabolic hormones secreted during stress. They initiate many metabolic processes including increased production of both ketoacids and lactic acid. Support for a direct participation of these hormones in the development and/or maintenance of ketoacidosis includes: (1) the high incidence of stress (approx. 70%) as a precipitating factor for ketoacidosis; (2) the elevated plasma levels of noradrenaline (norepinephrine) in patients with ketoacidosis; (3) the rise in plasma concentrations of ketone bodies during catecholamine infusion; and (4) the reduction in the incidence of ketoacidosis with beta-adrenergic pharmacological blockade. Support for a direct participation of catecholamines in the development and/or maintenance of lactic acidosis includes: (1) the common association of stress and lactic acidosis; (2) the rise in plasma lactate concentration during adrenaline (epinephrine) infusion; (3) the precipitation of lactic acidosis by adrenaline intoxication and phaeochromocytoma; and (4) the vasoconstrictor effects of catecholamines leading to tissue anoxia and lactic acid production. Edited April 9, 2013 by shortlived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 The doctor is wrong, his heart rate was elevated due to adreniline, brought on by his rage, and physical exertion. Doctors arn't always right. What they are looking for is unnatural causes. He probably would have lived if he didn't have a high level of adrenaline in his system. The Dr is wrong huh? Too funny, you were in on the autopsy and came to this conclusion against the other licenced practitioner did you? What year and Med School did you graduate from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlived Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) The school of common sense. high adrenaline levels may promote the initiation of arrythmias. Adrenaline infusion may actuely facilitate the induction of ventricular arrhythmias by a taser. Adrenaline is common in delirious conditions and may predispose the heart to higher capture rates and to VF induction. exceprt TASERª Conducted Electrical Weapons: Physiology, Pathology, and Law edited by Jeffrey D. Ho, Mark W. Kroll I'm not a sheep. I don't need a doctor to tell me what science already has. I'm familiar with the events and i know the guy was both over excited, out of control, and physically responsive which all indicate potential adrenaline intoxication and high adrenaline levels. The reason he was tasered according to the original story was because he became physically agressive (an indication of adrenaline intoxication. His fight flight mechanism was engaged and he was entrapped creating a feedback effect on his psychological state. Doctors arn't gods, I have enough medical knowledge and knowledge of the situation to tell you what happened. If adrenaline was not a factor the mounties lied about the situation, and they tasered a calm individual, which would indicate intentional homicide and a cover up. http://hcmcmn.org/index.php?content=physicianInfo&sid=116 http://www.forbes.com/profile/mark-kroll/ Adrenaline itself is the major factor in the need to have multiple applications of a taser so it is somewhat self fullfilling that heart failure will be more likely in individuals under psychotic adreniline intoxication. The guy was worked up for quite some time, provoked and frustrated multiple times... visibly agitated.. this is a no brainer, he must have had incredibly high adrenaline levels leadering up to the multiple taserings. Daily Business Review "Tasers are significantly more dangerous for bodies flooded with adrenaline" the risk of serious injury or death is increased with adrenaline in the bloodstream - San Francisco cardiologist and electrophysiologist Dr. Zian Tseng The taser was the instrument of death, but there were definitely other factors which lead to it being lethal specifically the effect of adrenaline, over a prolonged period of elevated stress, frustration, and rage. Adrenaline Adrenaline is a sympathomimetic agent, i.e. it stimulates the sympathetic nervous system.It stimulates all types of receptors: α, β1, β2 Effect of sympathetic stimuli on organ structures The target organs possess different receptors: α, β1, β2 Organ α β1 β2 Heart Heart rate ↑ Contractility ↑ Excitability ↑ Conductibility↑ The sympathetic nervous system's general action is to mobilize the body's nervous system fight or flight response. We also know that hearts that are under stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system are also more prone to developing abnormal heart rhythms. ... ... Discharge of the central nervous system and an increase of adrenaline-like products circulating through the body accelerate the heart rate and alter the electrical characteristics of heart cells, making them more prone to the development of heart arrhythmias. ... ... I cannot underscore the potential importance of the extreme agitated state and very high circulating adrenaline levels and high sympathetic nervous system discharge. Therefore, based on animal studies and the extremely agitated state of most people receiving a Taser shock, I believe that induction of ventricular fibrillation in man is possible. Dr. Kerr Submission to: Commissions of Inquiry under Thomas R. Braidwood, Q.C. The use of Neuromuscular Incapacitating Devices (Taser) and the Risk of Sudden Death He was already electrically saturated before he got hit, due to adrenaline saturation of his body that is why it took mulitple tases. A much more effective taser would first send out a striping field such as a high magnetic pulse, then send out the electrical charge. It would reduce the need for multiple activations of the electrical charge. Although anyone agitated especially over an extended period of time is a lethality threat, and other system such as "body foam" or knock out gas, would be better alternatives First off target strike to legs, of having the person stand somewhere that foam adhesive could be deployed from the floor. having a "foam gun port" into the room would provide defense without needing to physically engage None the less an alternative to tasers is needed for psychotics and people who have been agitated. -- although one must note that the taser under these circumstances is only useful for unprovoked self defence. Police not provoking the fight flight response might be a good start to non lethal use of weapons. Example they could have superman or panda suits for psychotic incident response or Barney the dinosaur suits. who would loose it on barney ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KGXiaRmvZ4 Edited April 9, 2013 by shortlived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) The school of common sense.Which I am assured you did not graduate. But thats for another thread.I'm not a sheep.You're also not a Doctor.I don't need a doctor to tell me what science already has.' Ok, Doc ! I'm familiar with the events and i know the guy was both over excited, out of control, and physically responsive which all indicate potential adrenaline intoxication and high adrenaline levels.Actually you dont know per se, but read, which is fine, but dont try and come on here and spout like you know. You dont....and that is obvious Doctors arn't gods, I have enough medical knowledge and knowledge of the situation to tell you what happened.They arent. Whats even worse is idiots without a degree trying to tell others 'they know'. You dont know shit from shinola and thats apparent. If adrenaline was not a factor the mounties lied about the situation, and they tasered a calm individual, which would indicate intentional homicide and a cover up.Oh here comes the dime store lawyer junk now ! ! Woot ! Isnt there a constitution violation in there somewhere? Dime store lawyer AND a certified quack. My my , you do get around. Edited April 9, 2013 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlived Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Which I am assured you did not graduate. But thats for another thread.You're also not a Doctor.' Ok, Doc !Actually you dont know per se, but read, which is fine, but dont try and come on here and spout like you know. You dont....and that is obvious They arent. Whats even worse is idiots without a degree trying to tell others 'they know'. You dont know shit from shinola and thats apparent.Oh here comes the dime store lawyer junk now ! ! Woot ! Isnt there a constitution violation in there somewhere? Dime store lawyer AND a certified quack. My my , you do get around. Arbitrary detention. My gosh Google translate exists... they had access to the internet why not use google translate to translate polish and english? http://translate.google.com Witam, Mam na imię Barney, musimy cię zabić, jeśli nie współpracują. Edited April 10, 2013 by shortlived Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 http://translate.google.com Witam, Mam na imię Barney, musimy cię zabić, jeśli nie współpracują. While its hard for you , dont be daft Barney. ....and in English too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 In my opinion, the RCMP killed an innocent man when they taered him 4-5 times. Surely they could have defused the situation by finding an interpreter. He was non threatening to the officers and others. He was holding a stapler for goodness sake and walking away. The police tasered him imprudently for their own extra-judical punishment and should have seen that he couldn't speak English. What is worse is that the RCMP were going toperjure them selves until they realized that an observer had a video of the incident. So much for upholding the law. My question is why do our judges still believe them??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 oops - should be tasered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 The reason he was tasered according to the original story was because he became physically agressive (an indication of adrenaline intoxication. His fight flight mechanism was engaged and he was entrapped creating a feedback effect on his psychological state. (...) If adrenaline was not a factor the mounties lied about the situation, and they tasered a calm individual, which would indicate intentional homicide and a cover up. Good grief, Shortlived, we had this thing called the Braidwood Inquiry that studied all of those questions in great detail. Yes, the mounties lied. Yes, there was a coverup. Intentional homicide? No. But (based on my limited understanding of the law) a charge of manslaughter might be appropriate. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 the Mounties have embarrassed the entire force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Oh man, shortlived has trolled the crap out of all of you and you fell for it. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.