Should Canada allow more immigrants into the country?

[Oleg Bach]

Congratulations, Jennie, on another thought-free post. I'm glad to see you save your thinking for video games and other important stuff.

My ancestors immigrated at a time there was no welfare, no unemployment insurance, and no federally funded medical care. They took care of themselves and their families then, or they went back home.

Yah more immigrants - and make sure they are economist and doctors who can not break into the old white guys monopoly - have these people drive cabs - I just can't stand a boring cabby --- better to have a PHD...jabber away and keep me entertained. Or we can be like California and Texas etc...and just absorb more throw away slaves that the Mexican Mafia have decieded they don't need or want to feed...yah bring em on....we need to have them take those 8 dollar an hour jobs at the super market - and bump that white trash out of there - just can't stand anglo cashiers when I buy my water melon - something creepy about the former children of abandoned Irish slaves from the 50s that really bugs me.

[M.Dancer]

Were the housing projects and prisons filled with them then?

Yes actually. But they were called slums back then. Ever hear of Cabbagetown, Goose Village and Pointe Saint Charles?

Know why the police bus used to be called a "paddy wagon"?

[Oleg Bach]

Yes actually. But they were called slums back then. Ever hear of Cabbagetown, Goose Village and Pointe Saint Charles?

Know why the police bus used to be called a "paddy wagon"?

Or Riverdale with the sandblasted hovels that lawyers and CBC welfare types now inhabit. Funny to see a crack house at the end of the street...with a "harm reduction" nurse at the ready to pass out a pipe and a needle...and yes what's left of the Paddy Wagoneers grandchildren are the skinny wasted addicts - the toss aways - seeing their grand parents built Toronto - they really don't need those genetically predisposed to addiction Irish around. They have been displaced by our immigration policy and tossed aside to die..by the way - their food bank was closed today - I guess they will be eating cake tonight. You would think that the powers that be would be loyal to the decendants of the people that built their wealth and got paid in booze that made their chidren wealthy enough to appoint judges to undermine Canadian democracy... what is that anyway - two governments in Canada - a private one and a public one with Jack Layton drones who don't have a clue how things work?

[Moonlight Graham]

There's too many bad immigrants coming into this country. We need quality, not quantity.

The gov't wants immigrants to keep the population up. Well, how about they give major tax breaks or other incentives for citizens ALREADY LIVING IN CANADA to have children. They should put as much money into incentives for new Canadian-born children as they do to bring in more immigrants, educate them, and provide them health care they've never paid a dime into.

Stop punishing mothers who want to stay home with their children. Yes gov't we know you want both parents working because it brings in more taxes, but 2 working parents usually means less children for that family.

[Michael Hardner]

Graham, please support your statements that there are too many 'bad' immigrants, thanks.

[Michael Hardner]

Arg,

I think it's patently obvious that the Conservative party is affected by two major considerations.

One is that the longstanding effort by the left to portray them as bigoted and racist has left them vulnerable to such charges the moment they make any changes to immigration law which are seen to be likely to reduce the number of non-white immigrants. That's very problematical in Ontario, where there are so many immigrants who vote strictly according to whose policies are best for their communities and their homelands.

The second is that many elements of the leadership hope that they can replace the Liberals as the choice for new immigrants, most of whom are very conservative by our standards, and are not enthusiastic, to say the least, about the elastic morals and the gay friendly, abortion loving left. This ain't the Reform party, after all. Realpolitik is at play with these guys.

So the conspiracy has spread to the CPC then ?

Could it possibly be the case that a growing population base provides for more demand for goods, more commerce, more home construction and a growing economy ?

Sometimes the simplest argument is the answer.

[Michael Hardner]

Arg,

QUOTE(Michael Hardner @ Nov 16 2007, 01:00 PM) *

It's truly odd to see some of the conservatives lobbying for higher wages, after all these years of lowered wages and manufacturing jobs losses.

Now, we're blaming feminists for flooding the workforce with women ?

I'm sorry if basic economics confuses you, but if you think economics is merely a plot by conservatives there's really nothing much I can do for you.

I support unions, by the way, as long as they function in an apolitical fashion for the protection and well-being of their membership.

Where did I say that ? The goal of trade agreements is to allow countries to specialize in whatever they're best at. Canada, with high labour costs, has no advantage in manufacturing.

Now, for some reason, I see conservatives on these boards complaining that there are no well-paying jobs. Why don't we just connect the dots ?

[mikedavid00]

make sure they are economist and doctors

I hate it, hate it, hate it when immigrants claim they are business people and economists.

"yes Mr. Pakistani sand person of Islam, why don't you tell us all about our complex 1st world industrialized nation. But please, speak slowely so I can understand you".

Damn.. i've seen an immigrant that were unshure how to use an elevator.. yet they are goign to come here claim to be economists, or be in the social sciences.

Pakistani's in social sciences.

I'm sure they can teach us a thing or two.

[mikedavid00]

Arg,

Where did I say that ? The goal of trade agreements is to allow countries to specialize in whatever they're best at. Canada, with high labour costs, has no advantage in manufacturing.

Now, for some reason, I see conservatives on these boards complaining that there are no well-paying jobs. Why don't we just connect the dots ?

There are many advantages to having local labor. The mattress I bought last weekend from Sears was made in Canada.

There are no well paying jobs becuase there is too much of a labor pool created by immigration which has defalated the price of labor. The exceptoins being the gov't jobs. Those are all high paying.

Jobs are not moving over seas in Canada. That just ins't a major factor in our country.

Canada is not a baskin for great jobs. Canada has great jobs, but the pay for them are garbage and they are all taken. If I was doing my same job in the US, I would be worth $70,000 US. But my job here is lower paying becuase we just have such a large, large supply of labor so employers can really drive down wages and up the experiencec levels..

It must be next to imposible to get a decent paying job in Nova Scotia.

That's the reality of the situation the our gov't has created foro us.

Time to take our gov't back.

[Oleg Bach]

I hate it, hate it, hate it when immigrants claim they are business people and economists.

"yes Mr. Pakistani sand person of Islam, why don't you tell us all about our complex 1st world industrialized nation. But please, speak slowely so I can understand you".

Damn.. i've seen an immigrant that were unshure how to use an elevator.. yet they are goign to come here claim to be economists, or be in the social sciences.

Pakistani's in social sciences.

I'm sure they can teach us a thing or two.

OK - so the two guys from Nigeria are just hustlers who found out that we were more protective of our weath than expected and we are not as stupid as they assumed...couldn't we just stroke the poor guys and tell them they are great and it is a free and open society....please - I promised them they could have your job...come on - help me be a hero for the poor and down trodden of the world..send my your tired and your poor and .......................who wants to be a millionare!??

[Moxie]

Would it not be in Canada's best interest to have new Immigrants go to Provinces that need immigrants (Even unskilled labours would be welcome in Alberta?) instead of having them move to Toronto, Vancouver and other major cities. I understand why some posters are frustrated, our major cities are baring more than their fair share of the finanical cost for "Social Programs". I'd favour an Immigration Policy that forces new immigrants to live in areas that need them, after said period the immigrant can move where she or he wishes. Flooding cities that can't afford new immigrants or refugees (Toronto, Vancouver etc) is costing those taxpayers to much money is it not?

[Michael Hardner]

MD,

There are many advantages to having local labor. The mattress I bought last weekend from Sears was made in Canada.

There are no well paying jobs becuase there is too much of a labor pool created by immigration which has defalated the price of labor. The exceptoins being the gov't jobs. Those are all high paying.

Jobs are not moving over seas in Canada. That just ins't a major factor in our country.

You're saying that jobs aren't going overseas ?

I thought that was a 'given'. Ok. We'll have to find some stats on this - you and I both.

[mikedavid00]

Would it not be in Canada's best interest to have new Immigrants go to Provinces that need immigrants (Even unskilled labours would be welcome in Alberta?) instead of having them move to Toronto, Vancouver and other major cities. I understand why some posters are frustrated, our major cities are baring more than their fair share of the finanical cost for "Social Programs". I'd favour an Immigration Policy that forces new immigrants to live in areas that need them, after said period the immigrant can move where she or he wishes. Flooding cities that can't afford new immigrants or refugees (Toronto, Vancouver etc) is costing those taxpayers to much money is it not?

Thanks for understanding what we're going through these last 15 years and it's worse than ever.

Remember this is a pure economic issue.

People can come from Mars, but when they come they need to be working or else.. .

why are they here?

To get immigrants where we need them, we just need them to be sponsored through a work visa (which already exists).

No, you wont be seing people coming from Jamaica, Mainland china, India, and Pakistan. You'll now see Christians comnig from Brazil, mexico, and eastern europe that will be here to work and work towards citizenship.

And yes, you'd see just a fraction fo the people coming because those would be the amount of people that are actually needed.

Hmmm.. sounds dumb?

Then why does almost every other country in the world have this very same policy?

[Moxie]

MD I was visiting an Aunt in Toronto, just on the outskirts, a few months ago and we went shopping. The area she lived in was a nice mix of different races the last time I visited ten years ago, I was gob smacked to see the entire area become a Muslim Enclave. I had a sundress on and the females regaled in Burkas were hissing at me like snakes, if this is the future of Canadian Cities I want no part of it. I should be safe and comfortable going anywhere in Canada, it's insane that we've allowed these gettos and enclaves to grow without trying to integrate these Immigrants into society. Will it become as bad as England where the cops have "No go" zones without a sniper unit? I hate what's happening to our cities, how can they continue to support cultures that expand faster the infrastructor can keep up.

I don't really care where an immigrant comes from, it's their refusal to integrate that angers me. If they don't like our way of life leave, I have no desire to turn Canada into the new Sweden with they tolerate other cultures while they cull their own.

.

[mikedavid00]

MD,

You're saying that jobs aren't going overseas ?

I thought that was a 'given'. Ok. We'll have to find some stats on this - you and I both.

Not really.

Our manufacturing downsizes, but does not move over seas all together.

What you're thinking of is USA media stories about something that happened to them.

Realize that Canada is a piss small, miss managed, corrupt country. Job's 'moving over sea's is not as it seems. That was America's problem more than it was our own.

I bought a matress that was made in Canada. But you can be sure that the steel used to make the springs were from China. You can also be shure that the fabric was made in Pakistan or Bangledesh.

However, it's always in our best interest to make the actual matress and use lumber in Canada. This will always be true for the next century until we figure out a magic shipping/fuel system.

Local manufacturing is in every country around the world and will always be there. Canada's manufacturing has declined as it has in Mexico, Europe, Japan, US, and everywhere else that isn't China.

Things are fine and our manufacturing jobs will rise again in the coming years.

We just really, really need to stop immigration.

[Oleg Bach]

Not really.

Our manufacturing downsizes, but does not move over seas all together.

What you're thinking of is USA media stories about something that happened to them.

Realize that Canada is a piss small, miss managed, corrupt country. Job's 'moving over sea's is not as it seems. That was America's problem more than it was our own.

I bought a matress that was made in Canada. But you can be sure that the steel used to make the springs were from China. You can also be shure that the fabric was made in Pakistan or Bangledesh.

However, it's always in our best interest to make the actual matress and use lumber in Canada. This will always be true for the next century until we figure out a magic shipping/fuel system.

Local manufacturing is in every country around the world and will always be there. Canada's manufacturing has declined as it has in Mexico, Europe, Japan, US, and everywhere else that isn't China.

Things are fine and our manufacturing jobs will rise again in the coming years.

We just really, really need to stop immigration.

Ask and establishe immigrant if they want more immigration and the anwer would be no. What is this thing about filling up the land mass just because we have it--- It's like having a comfortable living room and going out and buying more furniture and cramming the place tight till there is no room to move - what is the point of that - we have just enough - and it is barely managable..why make it more complex just for the sake of forcing them to labour for minimum wage so rich people who could not spend the money they have in ten life times have more wealth - there has to be a purpose for more immigration - I see none - do you? Unless you are wealthy and greedy..I suppose you would want more slaves...but to do what?

[jennie]

Not really.

Our manufacturing downsizes, but does not move over seas all together.

What you're thinking of is USA media stories about something that happened to them.

Realize that Canada is a piss small, miss managed, corrupt country. Job's 'moving over sea's is not as it seems. That was America's problem more than it was our own.

I bought a matress that was made in Canada. But you can be sure that the steel used to make the springs were from China. You can also be shure that the fabric was made in Pakistan or Bangledesh.

However, it's always in our best interest to make the actual matress and use lumber in Canada. This will always be true for the next century until we figure out a magic shipping/fuel system.

Local manufacturing is in every country around the world and will always be there. Canada's manufacturing has declined as it has in Mexico, Europe, Japan, US, and everywhere else that isn't China.

Things are fine and our manufacturing jobs will rise again in the coming years.

We just really, really need to stop immigration.

Why was that again?

[Oleg Bach]

Why was that again?

Manufacturing will not rise in the year to come no matter how much cheap material and lead goes into the production of so-called trash goods from China - it's over...our internationalist sold those positions to nations with slave labour..we are stuck being a managerial outpost of computer clickers producing nothing and counting the lead coated beads that come out of China and else where...seems that we are the ones being defrauded out of a territory by beads and booze.

[MountainMan]

Immigration is very good for Canada, and you can parrot your mantra 1000 times a day, but it doesn't make it any less true. The majority of immigrants come here to work and pay taxes. We are very lucky to have them. I'm not worried so much about who will take care of me, but your generation. I also don't fear for my safety because I am not paranoid and I make sure I get the facts. Fact is, violent crime is falling. Canada is a very safe place and it will remain that way. Thankfully there aren't many people like you who have no tolerance for others.

I have a lot of hispanics down here in the US I am willing to part with. You are more than welcome to them.

[jawapunk]

Your statement is not demonstrated by what precedes it. The fact we are moving towards a more technologically oriented job market in no way shows that we need immigrants at all, much less "more than ever". And, in fact, demographic data shows you're wrong.

An ever expanding service sector? Can you tell me how much it expanded last year? I'm betting - no. I'm betting you actually don't know anything about the service sector and what it is made up of.

Here's a hint, though. To provide a service you generally need to communicate well. Most mmigrants cannot communicate well. Many cannot communicate at all.

Pretty sure I understand what the service sector/industry is, but if you don't believe me or need a refresher yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_sector

Front line service sector jobs do require a basic need in communication. However many service industry jobs require no skills at all. These would include almost all restaurant jobs which have expanded incredibly in the last 20 years. I'm glad you told me that I couldn't say if the service sector expanded last year without giving any contrary data. It bascially means you couldn't answer that question yourself.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ40.htm

You'll notice from this table that the accommodation and food services aswell as the transportation and warehousing account for a large percent. You'll also notice that the service sector itself accounts for 2/3 of ALL INDUSTRIES. I know you willprobably try to come back at me here and say that there are many jobs here that require skills/degrees and communication and that is correct. This was not my contention however. I am saying that the service industry is expanding and is becoming very important to the total Canadian economy, this includes expansion of many non-skilled and low paying jobs that are well suited for immigrants to our country. This is because many Canadians will not be willing to take lower paying jobs when they have gone through University or trade schools in order to have a higher wage.

I guess I was right there then and not talking out of my ass. There are also a ton of other soite discussing the service sectors increasing importance in western societies. I can scan some of my business books for you too if it would help.

Anyways. Here's a hint. Read more.

Edited November 19, 2007 by jawapunk

[mikedavid00]

I have a lot of hispanics down here in the US I am willing to part with. You are more than welcome to them.

I have 40% of non-Christian, racist, political hijacking xenephobes who are a legal financial drain on Canadians here where i live.

Yes. Let's trade.

Edited November 19, 2007 by mikedavid00

[Borg]

Immigration kills us slowely.

.............................................

All we get are people who don't work, can't speak English, are xenephobic, and hold tremendous, tremendous amounts of cultural bagage.

While I do not completely agree with the fact stated - "All we get are people who don't ...."

I do agree we have serious probs now with the remainder of the statement.

Europe and Australia are beginning to address these issues - Canada is not.

We are importing some real trouble and doing little to combat it.

Canadian citizens are now becoming concerned as reported on this very site some time ago.

Borg

[Borg]

Thats not even funny. Our country relies on immigration to survive an it will become even more important in the future. There is nothing wrong with immigrants. Besides that, and not that it matters, many immigrants are Caucasian.

Even the Arab sitting two desks down from me today thought it was funny.

You need to lighten up a bit, stop taking yourself so seriously and perhaps smell the coffee.

"Some" are caucasion? Check it out sometime - well into the minority. The plan the Libs put into place will change the face of this country dramatically. All for the power of the vote.

Power corrupts .... blah, blah .....

Borg

Edited November 19, 2007 by Borg

[Michael Hardner]

Jobs are not moving over seas in Canada. That just ins't a major factor in our country.

MikeDavid,

You're right, they're not moving. The factories here are shutting down...

Graph

Edited November 20, 2007 by Michael Hardner

[MountainMan]

I have 40% of non-Christian, racist, political hijacking xenephobes who are a legal financial drain on Canadians here where i live.

Yes. Let's trade.

I never said I wanted to trade, just that I was willing to part with them.