Toronto School Board eyes "Afro-centric" school

[maxsyno]

G. Bambino said:

"there should be one history taught predominantly in our public schools, and that's the history of Canada".

I'm thinking that often the problem with racism or nationalism tends to stem from this very thing. I wish they would teach more world history in order for children to see just how integrated we are in many respects. I think the kids would love it actually. It would broaden there horizons and prick there curiosity toward the political realm.

[g_bambino]

G. Bambino said:

"there should be one history taught predominantly in our public schools, and that's the history of Canada".

I'm thinking that often the problem with racism or nationalism tends to stem from this very thing. I wish they would teach more world history in order for children to see just how integrated we are in many respects. I think the kids would love it actually. It would broaden there horizons and prick there curiosity toward the political realm.

I think the question to ask in response to that is: how do you teach the world's history to children in only eight years? I'd venture to say: you can't. And not doing so doesn't make one a racist or nationalist. It's just practical.

Using moments in other countries' histories to illustrate a point about a segment of ours would probably be a good technique for teaching history, and imprint that there is a world beyond our borders. But, when ours is long and complicated enough, how can we expect to also teach Canadian children the histories of other countries as well, let alone a whole continent? Which countries should we teach a multicultural bunch of kids about? Canadians already seem very poorly versed in their country's history; the Dominion Institute illustrates that every Canada Day. Is the answer to that really to draw even more primary students' attention away to learn in-depth about the history of, say, Brazil?

As I said, if someone, by high school or university, wants to pick a course or programme to learn about the detailed history of another country or culture, they should go right ahead. But elementary school is where the foundations are built, and if the kid's going to be a productive member of Canadian society then he should know more about the country in which he lives than about the country his parents came from.

Regardless, this doesn't really pertain to the discussion, as it's been said that any special school, despite catering exclusively to "black" students, would teach the Ontario curriculum, which, I hope, gives a good grounding in Canadian history.

Edited November 15, 2007 by g_bambino

[Moxie]

Well you got that one about as wrong as you possibly could. The Black Watch was formed and manned by Scots, not Nova Scotian blacks. I know you wont believe me so heres a link.

http://www.blackwatchcanada.com/en/index.htm

LOL is your assertion that Blacks didn't serve in this regiment? Well sorry to break or burst your bubble, but the majority of Vets from the Black Watch are black in Nova Scotia. Angus the KILT is a dead give away dahhhhhhhhh of the regiments roots. Then again perhaps Africian Immigrants designed the kilt. Try and stay focused this issue isn't about the Scotish, no issue is anymore.

AS Dancer stated just because it was a Highland Regiment didn't make those who served this country Scotish. Just the opposite, the second world war had people of all cultures and races fight against Hitler. I believe Alberta had a regiment made up of mostly MEN from Japan.

Dancer do you know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name of the Regiment.

Back to Race Based Schools, yep still a really bad idea.

[M.Dancer]

LOL is your assertion that Blacks didn't serve in this regiment? Well sorry to break or burst your bubble, but the majority of Vets from the Black Watch are black in Nova Scotia. Angus the KILT is a dead give away dahhhhhhhhh of the regiments roots. Then again perhaps Africian Immigrants designed the kilt. Try and stay focused this issue isn't about the Scotish, no issue is anymore.

AS Dancer stated just because it was a Highland Regiment didn't make those who served this country Scotish. Just the opposite, the second world war had people of all cultures and races fight against Hitler. I believe Alberta had a regiment made up of mostly MEN from Japan.

Dancer do you know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the name of the Regiment.

Back to Race Based Schools, yep still a really bad idea.

The kilt's tartan goes back to before confederation. I'm not saying blacks weren't in it....there is even a famous World War Two trooper who was known as McCohen.....The reg't itself goes back to just after the jacobite rebellion. I also doubt highly the the "majority" of the Nova scotia vets are black.....

[mikedavid00]

When my son was in a Scarborough high school, he was the only white kid in his class one year, and I'll bet, there aren't too many schools in Toronto that have a majority white classroom.

Note to everyone in small town Canada who really don't believe just how many immigrants are here. They think there is some UK/NY style mix of people.

No.

Whole cities is what i'm talking.

Segregated racism like you have never seen.

[mikedavid00]

Asian immigrant children seem to do okay, in fact, very well, so maybe it's about the students and their parents taking responsibility for their actions and attitudes towards learning.

Of course it is a parenting issues. That's the real issue here. We all know that.

Yes there are genetic issues when it comes to base intelligence, memory retention, etc.. but that isn't the issue here. The issues with the black kids is that they are hard to handle, miss-behaving, missing class etc. The bad single moms feel the schools are being 'racist' on their kids and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

I should know, my mom is the same sort of garbage parent as their mothers so I understand their issues quite well.

[mikedavid00]

In Nova Scotia we have the largest African Community in Canada.

Lol..

Dude. My suburb of Toronto has almost the same population of the whole province of Nova Scotia.

There are more Jamaicans and 2nd gens in Canada then the WHOLE POVINCE of Nova Scotia.

I don't care if Nova scotia has 5000 african decendants.

They are Canadians like us. I don't care what their skin color or history is. If they want to learn it, that's their issue, not ours.

[mikedavid00]

I agree that, at least from my experience, that component of Canada's history which pertains to Afro-North Americans is not covered enough in current curricula, even as small as it is.

If we had to put every small thing in Canada's history in our classrooms our kids would learn nothing but history.

I agree that we should teach Who founded the country, our political system, and major wars.

But you have to draw the line one what our school should teach, and what someone should learn on their own.

History is actually over rated depending on how you look at it.

Sitting around reading about history and trying to make intellectual equations is something that is done in the 3rd world, not in modern economies.

[M.Dancer]

There are more Jamaicans and 2nd gens in Canada then the WHOLE POVINCE of Nova Scotia.

Lets see.......

population of NS is 934,000

Jaimacan Canadians....211,720

[mikedavid00]

Secondly, Asians aren't part of Canadian Culture? Who do you think laid the railway in the Country?

Asian are not part of our culture.

The majority just 'live' here and they do not identify themselves as Canadians as many polls point out.

The day the majority of them identify themselves as 'Canadian' then they will be part of our culture.

But then they won't be Asians anymore.

(that post was short, but had many deeper meanings if you read it close enough.)

[M.Dancer]

Sitting around reading about history and trying to make intellectual equations is something that is done in the 3rd world, not in modern economies.

Absolutely.

Why would an economist want to know about the industrial revolution, the rise of mercantilism, the Tulip Speculation Crisis, The causes of the great depression and perhaps yesterday?

[M.Dancer]

Asian are not part of our culture.

The majority just 'live' here and they do not identify themselves as Canadians as many polls point out.

election day, rain

Ontario in front asians

Me, in back, in line

Do you like my poem?

It's done in Haiku

[mikedavid00]

I mean there was a time when blacks would "die" literally trying to read, so how ironic that this rise of anti-achievement is ever so challenging. To me it seems like the blacks are simply sabotaging themselves in a circle of self-destruction.

our problems are cultural/immigration/political issues in Canada and Europe, not a historic black issue as in the USA.

There is a night and day diffrence between the two. (no pun)

[mikedavid00]

Lets see.......

population of NS is 934,000

Jaimacan Canadians....211,720

Ah ah ah.

I send second gen also. So multiply that 3.

Saying that NS has this historic black population basically means nothnig to Canada or NS as a whole and is no different then saying: "Baby boomers are retiring". While both are technically try, the numbers are so small it's a moot statement.

Of course, it does make a catchy phrase here on the forum.

[mikedavid00]

Absolutely.

Why would an economist want to know about the industrial revolution, the rise of mercantilism, the Tulip Speculation Crisis, The causes of the great depression and perhaps yesterday?

Again,

Go to the third world or hand around 3rd world immigrants and history is the discussion of topics ALL DAY.

Mursharraf gives a speach and starts to bring up history lessons.

Let the 3rd world make equations and harp on history becuase they don't have jobs adn like to make themselves feel smart.

We should teach basics but that's it.

I want our kids to be employed and raising the standard of our living, not writing the CBC and newspapers and not paying taxes while they feel they are entitled to the public purse because they are 'well read schollars'.

The elderly Sikhs are all over brampton.

Walkin down the street.

Long white beards.

Lost in their thoughts.

Pondering history and tribal based politics and socialism.

In his mind, he is a schollar. An archritect. He's achieved something. He's a wise man.

Work? In his mind he's too intellectual to work. Labor is not for him. Politics and racism is his prime focus. Let the women work at Tim Hortons and he can just bum around his tribal poltical circle.

And in my mind?

I HAVE TO PAY FOR HIM AND HIS DAMN HEALTHCARE TABS WHICH IS MAKING ME BANKRUPT. HE SHOULD GET A LABOR JOB THAT IS NEEDED OR SHOULDN'T BE HERE AT ALL.

[M.Dancer]

Ah ah ah.

I send second gen also. So multiply that 3.

ERRR....wrong again......

Jamaican Canadian is a Canadian-born person of Jamaican descent, or a Jamaican-born person with Canadian citizenship.

Total population

211,720

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaican_Canadian

That's the danger of you pulling numbers out of the bottom orafice. They tend to be crap.

[mikedavid00]

ERRR....wrong again......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaican_Canadian

That's the danger of you pulling numbers out of the bottom orafice. They tend to be crap.

593,335 was how many blacks there were in Canada with most from the Carribian.

6 years later the number is probably up at 800k figure when factoring in illegals which puts it in the same ball park..

[M.Dancer]

593,335 was how many blacks there were in Canada with most from the Carribian.

6 years later the number is probably up at 800k figure when factoring in illegals which puts it in the same ball park..

[M.Dancer]

593,335 was how many blacks there were in Canada with most from the Carribian.

6 years later the number is probably up at 800k figure when factoring in illegals which puts it in the same ball park..

You still reaching in the goatse bag for more numbers that don't have anything to do with anything else?

Edited November 15, 2007 by M.Dancer

[guyser]

It's done in Haiku

He doesnt wear cologne , so he wont get it.

...where is my smiley face

[maxsyno]

maxsyno said:

"I'm thinking that often the problem with racism or nationalism tends to stem from this very thing. I wish they would teach more world history in order for children to see just how integrated we are in many respects. I think the kids would love it actually. It would broaden there horizons and prick there curiosity toward the political realm".

Bambino said:

"I think the question to ask in response to that is: how do you teach the world's history to children in only eight years? I'd venture to say: you can't. And not doing so doesn't make one a racist or nationalist. It's just practical."

Absolutely! That is, not teaching world history results in racism. I guess that because I'm european i think it is possible since we had to learn about europes development from an early age. So it is only natural that I would be concerned that a majority Canadian curicculum could result in kids believing that their country is the 'best of all possible worlds' so to speak. . . .and that other cultures throughout the world are strange as opposed to simply different.

I think that it is more then possible to compare effects of major historical events For example the industrial revolution and the differing repercussions of it internationally; or the effects of the cold war, Vietnam, two world wars and so on.

Kids can be facinated by history. I remember a few of us thinking that history was akin to 'The Lord of the Rings'. I don't under estimate childrens ability to draw from major events and there consequences. In fact I believe that today there imaginations are being stifled ( I digress, a new thread maybe?).

Afterall, comparing different provinces is a similar exercise to comparing different countries, especially if the young student has never visited a different province. Effect from one place to another is geographical as opposed to what we consider to be 'mind boggling'.

Perhaps it becomes easier to teach more world history if it is kept in the context of how and why countries have gone to war, responded to major changes in the economy and so fourth. At least the kids would be able to grasp patterns of events rather than having to percieve in a subliminal way something akin to 'seperatism' and countries as novelty 'items'. Afterall, we all are participants in history despite borders.

At least it becomes possible for any student to equally assess which/or what country/ies they would like to study later if they so wish. Apart from that they may become 'informed' voters.

[Moxie]

Ah ah ah.

I send second gen also. So multiply that 3.

Saying that NS has this historic black population basically means nothnig to Canada or NS as a whole and is no different then saying: "Baby boomers are retiring". While both are technically try, the numbers are so small it's a moot statement.

Of course, it does make a catchy phrase here on the forum.

Moot to you, but here in NS we are proud of our Black Community and it's roots in our Culture. Unlike Toronto we co-exist living together peacefully. Perhaps Toronto could learn from our Diversity (oh god did I use the D word) and our abilty to intergrate with each other.

[guyser]

Moot to you, but here in NS we are proud of our Black Community and it's roots in our Culture. Unlike Toronto we co-exist living together peacefully.

We co-exist here in TO quite fine too, although some would be loathe to admit it.

[RB]

our problems are cultural/immigration/political issues in Canada and Europe, not a historic black issue as in the USA.

There is a night and day difference between the two. (no pun)

Well, let's try this again.

Since Canada is in very close proximity with the US, (our economies are intermingled), we are influence and bombarded with black music, rap music, a dominant black culture from US TV, we get all sorts of information on blacks, the way they dress, talk slang, steal, shoot, rob, we see blacks in a million different ways and it has influence and help shape Canadians existence. US documented black history gives us some reference to follow, simply, pick a time-frame. For example, if an Afro-Centric school was developed in the US (note: not Europe) not so long ago and deem successful, it would be very useful and of particular interest to Canadian educators and taxpayers when the school board do present some conclusive direction with regards to black schools in Canada. Make sense to me.

I can tell you now that experiments and efforts to reverse black failures, to give blacks some good esteem, encouragement to do some good in school, to revive themselves in education have failed and failed and tried and failed.

Yes, life is full of incongruities. I refer to current efforts made to table "Afro" schools in order to move forward, yes, and while we are at it why not reimpose limitations that can have some oppressive effect removing possibilities and new opportunities for blacks. For example, streamline blacks to trades and use their hands. They are not interested in education anyway. In times of recession, and hardship also make sure there are some plans to subsidize an entire population of unemployment.

Yes? There is a major culture problem within the black community. I pointed to one idea of anti-achievement. To expand on the thought, there seem to be a vicious regress in that old conundrum of "community bonding" now charge with race in how blacks handle their education, their failures, their rejects to traditional paths of self-improvement, their wrong attitude and the sad, sad irony of rejecting achievement. Welcome to a full circle of common education value linkages associated as insidious stigma in the black community. Yes, there is a pattern of failure. And, there is a pattern of black value system that do not prize education. So now, I would like to question your opinion Mikedavid00 on your basis for this rejection of anti-achievement.

We are concerned that blacks are failing to make it to the end of high school and wind up on welfare, prison, with drugs and dead. Black people are powerless no doubt, they have no wealth.

Education and achievement is one way out.

The funny thing about attitudes that people adopt in general is a interesting one. The observation is that failing cultures such as the black culture seem to creep up silently upon us and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, like we expect blacks to fail and hello, they are failing. No surprises there.

[Moxie]

We co-exist here in TO quite fine too, although some would be loathe to admit it.

Dah guyser if you were co-existing together just FINE then Black only schools would not be an issue. Deny, deny no matter how you stack it Toronto SUCKS.

RB I don't expect Blacks to fail, but it's they who decide weather or not they will succeed. They aren't victims, they just choose to wear that cloak to blur the truth. Black parents, or lack there of are the problem. If you want ten kids, support them it's not my or society's responsibility to support them. The black community in Torona seems to think screaming "Victim" will award them with special status. Nope not interested, racism is a two way street and it's the blacks that are being racist using their lack of ability to educate and control their children using "Whity" and the system as a scrapegoat. Children fail because of lazy idle parents, the system isn't broke the community lacks values and morals. Blaming society is always a cop-out.

The "Welfare Mentality" is a choice, we are now into the third generation. They have the choice to get educated or sell drugs and draw a welfare check at the same time. Personal Choice is always there, but it's easyier to scream "Victim".