Musharraf declares state of emergency

[Leafless]

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency in Pakistan on Saturday, state-run television reported.

"The chief of army staff has proclaimed a state of emergency and issued a provisional constitutional order," a newscaster on Pakistan TV said, adding that Musharraf, who took power in a 1999 coup, would address the nation later Saturday.

Political analysts believe Musharraf is trying to curb the powers of the Supreme Court, which has been hearing constitutional arguments against his re-election last month.

This state of emergency is based on dual concerns:

"One, there is an Islamic insurgency in the northwest of the country, which the army is already dealing with. But perhaps what is more pertinent is that most analysts here think he has moved because the Supreme Court is about to rule on whether Musharraf can be eligible to be president while being chief of [army] staff."

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/southas...istan__Roundup_

Sort of sounds like what would happen in Canada if a Canadian PM revoked our constitution as being discriminatory and unconstitutional.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Leafless

[Higgly]

Sort of sounds like what would happen in Canada if a Canadian PM revoked our constitution as being discriminatory and unconstitutional.

Which he might very well be able to do if he succeeds in his campaign to hobble the judiciary.

[Leafless]

Which he might very well be able to do if he succeeds in his campaign to hobble the judiciary.

I hope he does.

A commentary at the end of the article I posted is one I kind of agree with.

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF has taken wholly prudent and necessary 'emergency actions' for the safety and protection of the peoples of PALISTAN against the 'GROWING TERROR of the ISLAMIC CALIPHATE'. In the UNITED STATES in the 1790's no less than GEORGE WASHINGTON instituted 'martial law' and the raising of FEDERAL TROOPS against Western PENNSYLVANIANS & others involved in the 'WHISKEY REBELLION'. LET US HOPE MUSHARRAF AND THE ARMY PREVAIL QUICKLY VERSUS THE ISLAMIC TERRORISTS WHO WISH TO STRIP PAKISTAN OF ALL ITS FUNDEMENTAL DEMOCRACY AND ALLIGNMENT WITH THE WESTERN POWERS/CULTURE. A nuclear armed PAKISTAN in the control of MUSLIM MANIACS is not thinkable as it must be unsettling to INDIA or any nations of the world? GOOD LUCK MR.MUSHARRAF AND TO DEMOCRACY IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD.

It's one huge problem to contend with.

[DogOnPorch]

Pakistan under control of the religious fascists = Iran having nuclear weapons pronto.

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The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country.

---J. Robert Oppenheimer

Edited November 3, 2007 by DogOnPorch

[Higgly]

The general feeling in the international community - at least among those who actually know what they are talking about - is that Musharraf is more interested in forestalling the supreme court ruling that could challenge his position.

His playing of the Islamic terrorist card will take in the less sohisticated though.

[DogOnPorch]

The general feeling in the international community - at least among those who actually know what they are talking about - is that Musharraf is more interested in forestalling the supreme court ruling that could challenge his position.

I agree...as well, Musharraf is no doubt more interested in what India is going to do rather than fighting the War on Terror with any seriousness. However, we have to watch Pakistan and what it does carefully. They've given away nuclear secrets before. If ol' two-faced Musharraf isn't going to take care of the radical elements...who will?

His playing of the Islamic terrorist card will take in the less sohisticated though.

It's still pretty much the truth, though. Twenty-five million dollars isn't enough to get Pakistanis interested in turning in bin Laden. What we have to worry about now, if it hasn't already happened, is this 'War on Terror' becoming an 'Islamic People's War' with grass roots support across the Muslim world for the Taliban, Al Qaeda and other radical groups. Like I said, though...it's probably already a fact in many areas of Pakistan.

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Acquiring weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank God for enabling me to do so. And if I seek to acquire these weapons, I am carrying out a duty. It would be a sin for Muslims not to try to possess the weapons that would prevent the infidels from inflicting harm on Muslims.

---Osama bin Laden re: nuclear and chemical weapons: Dec 1998.

[Higgly]

Senator Joe iden was interviewed on CNN this morning and his take on this was that If Musharraf gets his way, the moderate middle will have to side with the Islamic radicals in order to try to get rid of Musharraf. He's right.

Musharraf is loathe to give up either his military or presidential roles because by losing either he becomes vulnerable: if he loses his role in the military, then one election could make him powerless. If he loses his role as president, then he would have to call an election and would not be able to run unless he gave up his general's hat, which would leave him potentially empty-handed. If he didn't run and decided to keep his military power, he could very well end up taking orders from Benazir Bhutto. Now that would be entertaining!

In any case, Musharraf is betting that the supreme court will rule against him, or is not willing to take the chance.

This stuff about the Islamic threat is just smoke and mirrors, which is why the US, via Condoleeza Rice, issued a statement today threatening to "review" US aid to Pakistan. The US is not all that happy with Musharraf when it comes to fighting the Islamic threat, in any case.

[DogOnPorch]

The border area of Pakistan isn't really under government control. If Mussaraf shows his head there he's likely to get it shot-off. Warlords and gun dealers hold sway there and I don't think they've been talking to Condi...

World's largest gun market is located right at the mouth of the Khyber Pass...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M

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It is not an arrogant government that chooses priorities, it's an irresponsible government that fails to choose.

---Tony Blair

[Higgly]

The border area of Pakistan isn't really under government control. If Mussaraf shows his head there he's likely to get it shot-off. Warlords and gun dealers hold sway there and I don't think they've been talking to Condi...

World's largest gun market is located right at the mouth of the Khyber Pass...

Youtube. Now there's a reliable source. Getting your news from Youtube is like going to Tombstone Arizona in the 1880s for justice. Even if you are right, how many votes do they have?

Edited November 4, 2007 by Higgly

[DogOnPorch]

Youtube. Now there's a reliable source. Getting your news from Youtube is like going to Tombstone Arizona in the 1880s for justice.

Better than a guy going where reporters can not? OK...perhaps you get your news from

.

Gee...that's YouTube as well.

Even if you are right, how many votes do they have?

Like votes matter in a land where everyone carries (and fires) an AK-47 out in the open.

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Who's leg do I have to hump to get a dry martini around here?

---Brian, Family Guy

[Higgly]

Like votes matter in a land where everyone carries (and fires) an AK-47 out in the open.

Votes are what this thread is all about. Votes are about who might address the issues Pakistan faces, including the ones you might think are important.

I do believe CNN when I am seeing an interview with a political figure so I know what I am hearing. As far as a lot of the rest of it - especially anything that involves only a CNN talking head, I give it a pass.

[DogOnPorch]

I do believe CNN when I am seeing an interview with a political figure so I know what I am hearing. As far as a lot of the rest of it - especially anything that involves only a CNN talking head, I give it a pass.

Excellent. So where do you get your information about the border region of Pakistan? I'd enjoy reading your sources.

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I met George Bush when he was at College. He was talking about invading Iraq back then, but, he was sh*t faced at the time so I didnt take him seriously.

---Duke: Doonesbury

Edited November 4, 2007 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

Looks like another of America's friendly dictators, those who were expected to bring democracy to the world is going south.

[CLRV]

Only the latest and greatest on the list of reasons why we should haul our troops asses out of Afghanistan while they still have asses to haul. Experts agree this is going to hand carte blanche to the Taliban and other insurgents in the area, rendering the mission over there quite impossible.

OTTAWA–The imposition of emergency rule in Pakistan this weekend could turn the difficult task of fighting Afghanistan's Taliban insurgency into an impossible mission, military and diplomatic analysts warned yesterday.

"The Taliban and the rest of that gangster crew is going to have an easier time in Pakistan, which in turn means that the situation in Afghanistan may continue to be unstable," said Alex Morrison, president of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies. "The equation is that the more Pakistan is unsettled, the more Afghanistan is unsettled."

Only the most deluded fool imaginable would buy into Musharref's rhetoric about the "terrorist threat". Osama must be laughing his ass off.

[Leafless]

Looks like another of America's friendly dictators, those who were expected to bring democracy to the world is going south.

What choice does Pakistan have but to play the games of Western powers.

Either that or possibly complete annihilation at some point.

Europe divided and conquered the Islamic world.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Leafless

[mikedavid00]

Sort of sounds like what would happen in Canada if a Canadian PM revoked our constitution as being discriminatory and unconstitutional.

I support Musharraf.

Their politics are religious and full of smoke, mirrors, and 5 hour long lessons of complexitities. Musharraf knows what these groups are trying to do and he's stopping it.

If it wasn't for Musharraf, the Islamists would have been in power long ago.

I don't give 2 damsn about Pakistan and their people though.

What upsets me, is not that there is marshal law and 'Lawyers' with special interest getting arrested, this human trash will now come over to Canada as refugees and join their families here. Anyone with a claim of arrest or political stripe will now be landing here. English speaking or not, criminal or not, all relatives now having an excuse to send money over and get thier relatives here.

Our gov't should be strong like Musharrafs gov't and STOP these refugees from flooding into Canada.

[mikedavid00]

Looks like another of America's friendly dictators, those who were expected to bring democracy to the world is going south.

It's more complex than that.

At any point in a countries development, you must oppress in order for a better end result. Look at China and how succesful they became. They banned religions and forced people to have a standard education. If it wasn't for this strong fist rule, Chinese would be no different than Indians and be a country corrupt and stripe with cultural baggage, wars, 50 religions. etc.

They beleive the Daly Lama is a re-carnation of a 5 year old who was blah blah blah... These things hold a country back from succeeding and create problems. Look at how Canada is actually moving backwards.

The west has already succeeded and for the most part seperated church from state and is at a point where people can rule.

Pakistan is a WHOLE other ball game of religouis and cultural corruption.

These judges, lawyers, and other activists are trying to get power that they have not been elected for. They are Islamic groups.

Democracy is easily, easily exploitable (as we are discovering in Canada) when small groups unite. This is how things are done over there.

Muscharraf knows the games that these people are up to and is acting accordingly.

And it's not just me:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/11/st...eclared_in.html

Zarmeen Zubair

Calgary

Well I think what Musharraf did was right. There is no word called Democracy. Everywhere there has been only one man show.

Mau

Toronto,ON

Canadian Conservatives must be absolutely giddy with the TV news of the military cracking down on “activist judges,†pesky lawyers and whiny human rights protesters.

You know those "liberals" they have been condemning themselves here for years. Hopefully now they see the danger in their rhetoric and what happens when you vilify a segment of the population for your own gains.

chuk

Edmtonon

Brian says "we don't want democracy, we want obediance" and I have to reluctantly, sadly, agree with him.

Canadians have been complacent for too long, though not nearly as much as their neighbours to the South.

Victor

Toronto

Not an action we want to see but what are the alternatives?

Beaconsfield Ray

The phrase, "...we don't want democracy, we want obediance..." has been bandied about in this post. This is not necessarily contradictory.

Democracy entails obedience to democratic principles, where each individual is treated equally, with an equal voice, and equal opportunities.

Despite what people may currently think of Pakistan and its government, the current moves, ugly as they may be, are necessary to prevent factions intent on total subjugation from eventually running rough-shod over the populace.

Or do you honetsly think that any radical Islamist faction embraces democracy and equality?

Edited November 5, 2007 by mikedavid00

[Leafless]

Canadian Conservatives must be absolutely giddy with the TV news of the military cracking down on “activist judges,†pesky lawyers and whiny human rights protesters.

I think Musharraf is doing the right thing also, under the circumstances.

[Smallc]

I think Musharraf is doing the right thing also, under the circumstances.

He is not in any way doing the right thing. All he is trying to do is hold onto power as long as possible.

[capricorn]

Musharraf to quit the military; elections planned

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home

No democratic country should be led by a General in a military uniform. The uniform does, of course, serve to intimidate those who vie to replace him.

[Smallc]

Musharraf to quit the military; elections planned

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ernational/home

No democratic country should be led by a General in a military uniform. The uniform does, of course, serve to intimidate those who vie to replace him.

What he has done has ended all forward progress in Pakistan, all for self serving interests.

[Higgly]

I see that now Bush is stating publicly that he is staying with his ally in the "war on terror". That would be Musharraf, for those of you who don't remember that not so long ago, the US, Canada, and a few others were chiding Musharraf for not doing enough about terrorists operating from inside of Pakistan.

So now we have Rice saying that the US is "reviewing" all aid to Pakistan while Bush publicly announces that Musharraf is the best bet for "freeedom". As is often said, the US does not have a Pakistan policy, it has a Musharraf policy.

Musharraf has announced that he will be taking off his general's uniform; I'll believe it when I see it. Musharraf is also now making the stock announcement that dictators everywhere love to make when their backs are to the wall: "We'll be calling elections when the time is right." My guess is that he is waiting for Burma to call elections first.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Higgly

[mikedavid00]

Musharraf is also now making the stock announcement that dictators everywhere love to make when their backs are to the wall: "We'll be calling elections when the time is right."

Lets make this simple for you.

Do you support these actions in Canada.

-Canada has a stable gov't. No war. No problems.

-Islamists who feel they are another 'faction' of Canadians, althrough a minority, have heavy political ties and make their way into our political and court system over the years.

-Islamists who are anti-US and terrorist sympathizers, then decide that our political leader is being too soft to this cuase. (stephen harper)

-Islamists feel they can do a better job and make an effort to throw the current gov't out, DESPITE the fact that this leader was democratically elected.

-They setup fake shams and fake court trials and smoke and mirror politics to play poltiical games and get their leader out.

-In order to battle this, our priminister calls martial law (after all, that's why it's there) and ousts all these judges in order to prevent this from happening and keep order in the country.

-Then the world media goes on this left wing wacko HATE FEST calling our PM a cruel dictor and telling all the people that we should give into these poor, minority poeple who are attempting to over throw our stable gov't.

-Despite the fact that the protests are litterally 200-500 people in the street in a country of 30,000.

-Other media organations like the 'American CBC' use exiled islamic parties who are anti-Harper to brainwash the masses that everyone hates Harper in Canada.

-In order to retain order, Harper then bans the media and begins to arrest the perpetrators.

Listen.

EVERY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY HAS HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS.

There is going to be a protest now in downtown Toronto of Pakistani's in less than an hour. They are terrorist sympathises, islamists, and people who support terror.

If you do not like Musharraf and want radicals to take over the gov't, you are supporting terror and possible Nuclear mayhem.

Think about the situation realistically.

[mikedavid00]

UPDATE.

Just to show everyone the smoke and mirrors poltics of Pakistan.

They have been reportin on the CBC all morning that there was goign to be a Pakistani protest at the Pakistani councelit in North Toronto. Usually their turn outs are in the thousands. Especially to support Hezbollah.

Get this.

The CBC reports LIVE with their media and cameras and such. THey have a phone interview with the organizer. There's people yelling in the background. Sounding like about 4 people yelling. No joke.

The host notices and says 'Umm.. how many people are actually there?'

The Pakistani anti-Bush organizer on the phone says:

"Err.. uh.. well we have about 2 dozen people here."

Guys. Trust me. TRUST ME. Don't get involved or take seriously anything that comes out of the third world, the media hype, and media spin.

THere is a small group of Islamists trying to oust Musharraf and the common Pakistani person may change their mind by by believing media hype. The CBC did this group of '2 dozen' a favor. They fed into their anti-US cause.

[DogOnPorch]

Those actually interested in Pakistan's nuclear program can watch this BBC documentary on the subject and feel quite informed...or not.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=documentary5

This man was and still is...the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan

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Well, you know boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like women. You just have to read the manual and press the right button.

---Homer J Simpson