Harper launches another coup

[ScottSA]

Harper has just appointed a panel to determine Canada's future in Afghanistan, led by John Manley. Another brilliant move by Harper, which has in one fell swoop knocked another leg out from under Dion.

[shavluk]

Unless you were one of those Canadians with an actual memory and can see the smoke screen for what it is and see that Harper added 3+ new choices for them to consider when they in fact shouldn't be exploring any thing but the one that is in place.

It should be clear to all Canadians that Harper seems to want to keep us there.

Good shell game distraction, Yes come over and lets evaluate how we cant end this.

Simple question:

Do you want us to have our children dying in Afghanistan after 2009 holding the Americans golf bags or don't you?

[ScottSA]

Simple question:

Do you want us to have our children dying in Afghanistan after 2009 holding the Americans golf bags or don't you?

"Simple" is the operant here.

[jdobbin]

Harper has just appointed a panel to determine Canada's future in Afghanistan, led by John Manley. Another brilliant move by Harper, which has in one fell swoop knocked another leg out from under Dion.

This only becomes an issue if Harper decides to extend the mission even before the panel reports. Otherwise, it is a repeat of previous votes in the House where the NDP vote for immediate withdrawal and the other parties vote no.

[scribblet]

Harper has just appointed a panel to determine Canada's future in Afghanistan, led by John Manley. Another brilliant move by Harper, which has in one fell swoop knocked another leg out from under Dion.

Pretty good political strategy, he's making some good moves lately. The Liberals will have a hard time forcing an election with two of their hacks on the panel.

[Higgly]

Pretty good political strategy, he's making some good moves lately. The Liberals will have a hard time forcing an election with two of their hacks on the panel.

I agree. They are left with only Ignatieff and Dion, and neither one has any credibility. Ignatieff because he is a stranger to Canada, and Dion because he is tainted by Chretien.

Steve is a great strategist, I have to give him that, but he is a lousy constitutionalist, and that is what I don't like. Wake me up when he is able to undertand the importance of the Supreme Court to the values we hold so dear.

[ScottSA]

This only becomes an issue if Harper decides to extend the mission even before the panel reports. Otherwise, it is a repeat of previous votes in the House where the NDP vote for immediate withdrawal and the other parties vote no.

It effectively gives Harper a way to avoid fighting the next election on Afghanistan. After all, how can the Liberals dare presume what the panel will arrive at? Poor Rae was falling all over himself today to find some way to tiptoe through this minefield...he admitted that Manley was knowledgeable and that the panel would be very helpful, and couldn't quite answer the question as to why, if that were so, the Liberals planned to stick to their own policy of w/d before hearing the findings of the panel in 08. If the Liberals stick to their avowed policy of w/d in 09, now that they've for all intents and purposes accepted Manley and the panel, they have squeezed themselves into a conundrum that will make them look inconsistent on one hand and downright ridiculous on the other. It's not an issue...it removes an issue from play. Unless of course Dion blunders right into it, which is a distinct possibility, given his record.

[sharkman]

Oh he'll blunder alright. It's kind of fun to see what blunders he makes week after week.

[Higgly]

It effectively gives Harper a way to avoid fighting the next election on Afghanistan. After all, how can the Liberals dare presume what the panel will arrive at?

No doubt Beaker knows all this. I am wondering what his thinking is behind the mask. Maybe he's got his eye on the UN. Many have wandered that path....

[scribblet]

Oh he'll blunder alright. It's kind of fun to see what blunders he makes week after week.

Your right about Dion of course, he's in a pickle now for sure...

[Argus]

I agree. They are left with only Ignatieff and Dion, and neither one has any credibility. Ignatieff because he is a stranger to Canada, and Dion because he is tainted by Chretien.

Steve is a great strategist, I have to give him that, but he is a lousy constitutionalist, and that is what I don't like. Wake me up when he is able to undertand the importance of the Supreme Court to the values we hold so dear.

The Supreme Court!? Stuffed with political hacks appointed strictly by ideological loyalty? This is important to you for some reason? Nuke the place and start over.

[Topaz]

John Manly was the big part of the Canadian side of the North American Union and they still haven't made public what is going down with that, either! IF Harper REALLY want to know about Afghanistan he should have expanded more with more journalist who know about the war and the country than his own ministers do. Bernier couldn't even tell the difference between the Canadian, US and British soldiers! The way Harper is handling this, it wouldn't surpsise me he will give Bush backup IF/WHEN, Bush goes into Iran. Perhaps that is why Canadians soldiers are being trained by Blackwater USA. We can't do any reconstruction until the fighting stops and who knows when that will be. Why did Canada ever say we would fight in the south, that is the US problem but now its ours. As much as I want Harper out of there, I now want to leave him as PM and watch as the war, HIS WAR brings down his gov't and make him one of the hated PM's in our history by the time he leaves office!

[ScottSA]

John Manly was the big part of the Canadian side of the North American Union and they still haven't made public what is going down with that, either! IF Harper REALLY want to know about Afghanistan he should have expanded more with more journalist who know about the war and the country than his own ministers do. Bernier couldn't even tell the difference between the Canadian, US and British soldiers! The way Harper is handling this, it wouldn't surpsise me he will give Bush backup IF/WHEN, Bush goes into Iran. Perhaps that is why Canadians soldiers are being trained by Blackwater USA. We can't do any reconstruction until the fighting stops and who knows when that will be. Why did Canada ever say we would fight in the south, that is the US problem but now its ours. As much as I want Harper out of there, I now want to leave him as PM and watch as the war, HIS WAR brings down his gov't and make him one of the hated PM's in our history by the time he leaves office!

What in God's name are you talking about?

[M.Dancer]

What in God's name are you talking about?

Tinfoil futures........Maybe he works with JLK?

[fellowtraveller]

It is a strategic masterstroke by Harper, but I think he has another thing happening in the background as motivation and I'm afraid it is wholly cynical. I'm one of those that thinks he wants an election ASAP, which is reinforced by the latest polls today which put him at 40% support, within reach of a majority.

The Taliban are not fools, they know that if there is an election here they will do their best to mount an assault and kill Canadian soldiers. During a campaign, body bags arriving in Canada would be the worst possible optics for Harper. The existence of this panel, headed by the perfect chairman, John Manley, just takes that out of the Opposition bag of weapons.

But... it is also one less reason for the Libs to vote aginst the Government.

Now I'm not so sure what Harper will come up with to oblige everybody to vote aganst him. Big tax cuts? Major Senate reform?

[jbg]

Steve is a great strategist, I have to give him that, but he is a lousy constitutionalist, and that is what I don't like. Wake me up when he is able to undertand the importance of the Supreme Court to the values we hold so dear.

Good backhanded compliment, but in what respect is he a "lousy constitutionalist"? He seems to be providing good, clean, competent government, something that you'd have to go back before 1867 to find in Canada.

[ScottSA]

Good backhanded compliment, but in what respect is he a "lousy constitutionalist"? He seems to be providing good, clean, competent government, something that you'd have to go back before 1867 to find in Canada.

You mean the values the Supreme Court has taken to making up on the fly of late?

[bk59]

I just don't see this panel as that big of a deal. I mean, let's be honest... if the Liberals had any brains they could spin this the way they want. "Harper had to go to a known Liberal in order to really examine the options available with respect to Afghanistan."

And up until the panel reports it's findings the Liberals can certainly say "We think we should withdraw in 2009. We will examine the findings of the panel when they are released, but until then, based on what we have seen, we believe that Canadian troops should come home in 2009." It is a perfectly legitimate stance and valid right up until the panel reports back. Chances are, if Harper keeps trying like he has been lately, there will be an election before that happens. And Afghanistan will still be an election issue if the election comes before the panel reports back.

That being said, it is (hopefully) a good sign that Harper appointed Manley. The optimist in me wants to think that maybe we can put some partisanship behind us. The "realist" in me thinks this is just a cynical move to try to gain points without really wanting to hear what the panel has to say. Especially in light of the last week or so where it seems like Harper is daring the opposition parties and doing everything he can to force an election.

[bk59]

You mean the values the Supreme Court has taken to making up on the fly of late?

Such as?

[old_bold&cold]

While I will agree that Harper does want an election to happen asap, I also believe that now that he has been deprived of this, he will simply roll on with plan B, and that is to put forward a good solid fiscal budget, with wide reaching tax cuts, and it will be drawn from a wish list of things the Canadian people want. Once that buget gets past, it will be next to impossible to stop a CPC majority from happening. The Liberals swallowed all their credibility to survive the last round, but at a cost that will be even larger later. Dion will never unite the party and it is only a matter of time before the rest of the liberals see this and want desperately for an elction to be called, just so they can lose it and get rid of Dion. I do not see Dion resigning as leader before he has had an election, but it sure would be the smart move for the party, but they are too busy trying to shore up their own asses, as much as possible. There does not even seem to be any good backroom advice coming out and I guess that is because they are all pointing fingers, while the ship sinks. Sadly, we have seen this on smaller scales before, but I guess the lessons learned then, are not being used now. This only helps Harper and his plans, so from that point, I think Harper must look at this like Christmas come early. I wonder just how far this will go in melting down of the liberal party. It may well go down the the last man, if someone does not take hold of them and give then a good shaking. I never liked Manley and I do not think of him as PM material, but yes he is a good team player and maybe that is the type of thing that needs to come forward now, and in a big way.