Army Guy

Betsy: Yes lets talk about reprisals for a minute. If we had used our common sense and shown alittle respect in the first place there would not have been any need for "reprisals" would there. Once reprisals start, they don't stop it's tit for tat, so again what price are we willing to pay to exericise our so called freedom of speech. So this is not about freedom of speech, it's about you being tired of threats and intimidations and down right terrorism, and this incident is just the straw that broke the camels back. And now your just waking-up, So where were you when the west slamed it's fist on the table and decided to declare WAR on terrorism. Yes it's easy to sit in your armchair and post "we are making a stand" we're tired of being pushed around. But what price are you willing to pay in making your stand, are you willing to pay with your life. Are you willing to die, are you willing to die over a cartoon. As for me boosting the moral of these terrorists, I'm sorry but where were you when i was patroling the hills of Kabul looking to put a round in one of those terrorist. i thought you looked familar, oh wait , nope i don't recogize the arm chair. You see i've been there, i know first hand what these people are capable of. These radical muslims don't need very much of an excuse to get worked into a frenzy. SO while your here back in Canada spouting of about your freedom of rights "we can print what the F**k we want, your actually helping them(the Terrorist) convince those moderate Muslims(non Terrorist) to join thier cause. So when the snow leaves the mountains in Afgan soon, all the work, all the death and destruction will be for nothing because thier ranks would have swelled in numbers because of you recruiting efforts. Because you wanted to print a few cartoons. So when a few army guys print those storys or inform you that we are not scared, but concerned over your actions, maybe would should have another look at what you are doing. Or maybe before you decide to broaden the conflict, that will produce more Canadian casualities you should take a more direct approach by going down to your local recruiting station and strapping on a pair of boots. because i could use some more company when i'm out there again in late 06.

Wiber: What is it your trying to say we should broaden the WAR on terrorism, to include all muslims, better yet why not include all those that do not see the world as we do.

Wilber: It was'nt aimed at just those radical muslims, it was aimed at all muslims and thier religion something they believe deeply in. These cartoons are proving to be just as deadly as any bomb planted by those radical muslims. And it is being used by both sides. By the west for profits and what some think as promoting "freedom of speech" and by the radicals to incite violence and recruitment. and until one side backs down it will continue to boil over. The question is ,is it all worth it? And if it is all worth it why wait why show control why show common sense and respect "thats for the weak" lets crank up the presses and pump this shit out every where lets really stir the pot, get them really worked up. or better yet screw the middle man lets just bomb something. Because it's all about our freedom to insult "sorry" our freedom of speech.

Is there not a double standard here, those bilingual postions were created in ont so that Canadians could be provided with services in both offical languages. Correct me if i'm wrong. but i thought this whole program of providing all government services in both languages was created so that ALL Canadians both french and english could be served in thier mother tongues. Is this a private Hospital, is it funded by any level of goverment?. Are those postions in that hospital Bilingual? sounds like a form of discrimination to me.

Betsy: I'm assuming your talking about Canadain christians and not the christians mention in the Below link. My Webpage So when this is all over ,and said and done they are going to be sitting down trying to figure out just all this got started. and recorded in history it will read that the begining of this conflict was started with the printing of a cartoon. yes ladies and gentlemen a cartoon. And The survivors will be sitting on top of a pile of dead buddies saying we showed them bastards did'nt we. Them muslim dinks, what a bunch of cry babies. burn my church down will ya. And we will be shouting from the roof tops, Martha grab me my shotgun were going hunting.

I hope he does commit to it, Not only will it be a great for moral of the troops, but he'll be able to see for himself the problems in Afgan and perhaps that will reflect in future decisions of Aid packages, re-constrution measures or even military equipment needed for the job. How that equates into war mongering i don't know. Whats wrong with shaking a few soldiers hands, and allow them to meet the man that holds thier furture in his hands. Or for that matter give him a better picture of whats going on in Afgan. Thats not war mongering just showing good leadership. As for security, aside from his JTF escort he'll have a good portion of those 2200 armed military personal securing the area, he'll be safer there than in is own living room. But then again nothing is 100 % secure is it.

Another view. My Webpage And who said there is no profit to be made from cartons. My Webpage

Betsy: No, they are not claiming to talk for the whole army, just themselfs. i did post the links in previous posts, but if your having troubles with the link feature here is the whole story below. I'm sure if you really tried you could find more. Story number one. RUSSELL D STORRING: Canadian soldiers and the cartoon controversy CBC News Viewpoint | February 14, 2006 | More from Russell D. Storring -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Russell Storring is a Master Corporal with the Canadian Army, and has been a signals operator for the 14 years he has been in the military. He recently returned from his second tour of duty in Afghanistan, having served there previously in 2003, and with the UN in Rwanda in 1994. His columns give a first-person account from the field and the life of a soldier. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like many people in Canada and around the world, I have watched in horror and disbelief as Islamic riots are waged over the printing of cartoons of Muhammad. From Europe to the Middle East, Africa to Indonesia, thousands of protests have been staged; many becoming violent as Muslims denounce what they believe is the defamation of their Prophet Muhammad. In Afghanistan, upwards of ten people have been killed with scores injured (including NATO soldiers), as police battle unruly crowds in an effort to protect foreign embassies, personnel and NATO bases. The Taliban have gone so far as to place bounties of gold on the heads of the cartoonists and NATO soldiers from Denmark, Norway and Germany -- those they consider the chief offenders in this controversy. Having served two tours of duty in Afghanistan with the military, I have seen first hand how people often do not actually associate a flag with a nation. Rather, all western soldiers are viewed as exactly that – "western soldiers." Sure, once people had an opportunity to talk to us, they recognized that we were Canadian -- but the difference might be moot in a frenzied moment. When someone is looking for a target to hit, whether with an improvised explosive device, a suicide bomb, or something as simple as a well-aimed rock, they are looking for a "western soldier." Whoever generally matches their target ends up their prey. I had hoped that Canadians serving overseas would avoid most of the brunt of this cartoon controversy as mainstream Canadian media opted not to run the controversial cartoons. Everyday life can often be risky enough for our soldiers (at least in Afghanistan). I followed the flow of comments about freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of expression and how western countries shouldn't be afraid of protesting or rioting Muslims; that it's our inherent right to print those cartoons. But I couldn't help noting that this slew of "freedoms" come from people who take for granted what our fathers and grandfathers paid for in blood, and what our own soldiers pay for today. Freedoms are something many people here in Canada and around the world take for granted; the minute someone perceives that those freedoms are being infringed upon, a whole movement begins that can quickly snowball out of control. I am a soldier that believes deeply in freedom, and by virtue of service for my country I have and am willing to put my life on the line for what my country believes in. With freedom of anything comes the responsibility to make sound decisions and common-sense choices. Deciding to not print those controversial cartoons has nothing to do with being cowed by fear of Islamic retribution; it has everything to do with respecting another person's beliefs and the common sense that Canadians have always been known for around the world. When we as soldiers move into another country, whether to keep or enforce the peace, we respect the fact that the host country is unique in its beliefs and culture. We try to leave the country (at some point) with minimal cultural impact. We respect their holidays and events; we go so far as to try not to eat or drink in front of Muslims during Ramadan out of respect for their culture, even while in our own camp. This has nothing to do with fear of offending them, but has to do with respect and our ability to live in a multi-cultural environment -- whether overseas or here in Canada. Some publishers here in Canada have used their "freedoms" to inflame an already volatile situation in order, they say, to make a point. If now, like so many European countries, our troops become targets over what boils down to so-called freedoms of press or expression, where will be the position of those Canadian publishers then? If one of our troops is killed as a target of "blasphemy," I highly doubt those publishers will thank the soldier's family for allowing their magazine to express their belief. Canada has always been a country of tolerance, a country of compassion and a country of moral standards. Now we risk all that for the sake of a few cartoons. I have my doubts that any media organization here in Canada would run a series of anti-Catholic cartoons that the Vatican felt were strongly offensive. By infringing on other people's freedoms of belief, religion or thought, as an expression of our own freedoms -- what have we accomplished? I truly hope that this isn't the kind of society that we are becoming. Story number two. Making it worse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I completed a seven-month tour of duty in Afghanistan and we in the Western world are not well liked there. We are in enough danger as it is, and this little publicity stunt by the Western Standard is probably going to get more of our soldiers killed. The current threats our troops face on a daily basis in the new region, which is now in the middle of the Taliban and al-Qaeda resistance, is already enough risk without adding more fuel to the fire. If publisher Ezra Levant is so brave to publish the cartoons, why does he now need personal security? If this is just freedom of expression, why is he scared? I hope his stunt was worth it. Sgt. Stephen Piccolo, Edmonton How you got that out of what i said i don't know. But heres the mental picture i got some soldier being pulled out of a burning veh because some radical muslim decided to put an RPG round into the side of it. Because he's be inflamed by some cartoon. I'm sure his buddie who his busy stuffing his best friends guts back in his belly will feel better that you and the media are keeping up the fight back home. when it all started over some stupid cartoon. Here is a few links below, maybe it will paint another picture other than the one of a soldier pissing his pants. there are dozens more if you want them. My Webpage My Webpage My Webpage My Webpage

Argus: You have a piont, i'll give you that one, as i don't have that info and my comment was base on opinion. but it works both ways you've said they the media was united and standing -up for our freedom of speech, when in fact not every media outlet in Europe or for that matter in Denmark published those cartoons, so they are not united and not all of them believe it's a freedom of speech issue. At no time did have i said that any of our freedoms are not worth fighting over or preserving. And if you actually read the above quote it clearly suggests that our soldiers are not in Afgan for the money but because they believe in freedom and what they are doing in Afgan. Why don't you read those links i gave you they were written by soldiers who don't think that this "so called errosion of our freedoms" as you have suggested are worth the risk as they don't see it as a errosion but a media stunt to earn more dollars. As for me not thinking our freedoms are worth a nickel, thats your opinion. I have served this country for 26 years and am still serving ,I've have been on 8 tours of world shitholes. I've seen first hand the aftermath of caused by men fighting over freedoms.(real problems) So when i say that one Candian soldiers life is worth more than one damn cartoon or what some precieve as an errosion of our freedom of speech i think i know what i'm talking about. But hey thats my opinion, and thier like A$$holes everyone has got one. QUOTE(Army Guy @ Feb 22 2006, 11:49 AM) QUOTE I disagree that the European newspapers which published the cartoons were doing so in order to sell newspapers. I don't see the likelihood of major profits in this, and if there were, I think more would have done so. No, I believe that those few media outlets which saw the controversy, saw the attacks on the Danes, honestly wanted to stand up for freedom of the press, in solidarity with the Danes, and tell the Muslims that here in the West we believe in freedom of speech - so if you're going to attack the Danes, you're going to have to attack us all. The media is a business, like any business it is driven by profit. not some noble idea of keeping us informed, that is a by product. If the news does not sell papers it's not going to recieve the same coverage. That is too cheap and pat an answer. Yes, the media is a business. That does not mean that no one involved thinks of it as more than just a profit generating enterprise. Perhaps journalists and editors do not always do enough to live up to it, but there is a concept of journalistic bravery, integrity and freedom which many of them ascribe to. Is it a cheap and pat answer, i will agree that there are editors and journalist that do live up to those ideals you have discribe. and perhaps i've become jaded with my experiances with journalist in a war zone, who's only interest was getting the graphic story or pictures that sells papers. they want to see bodies not the re building of schools or hospitals. So common sense and respect play no role in thier decision, Just fear.

Argus: Actually, it is a very normal response to push back when you're being bullied So you agree that it is OK to say or print something offensive to someone or group when ever you want but when they throw a trantrum or take action again'st you, "you call them a bully." and you would consider it a normal response to push back. Sounds like something kids do on the play ground. It's not the actions of a grown-up or for that matter a media outlet who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us normal citizens. I'm i really being self- righteous when i and other soldiers "you know the group of large armed men" have said that they do not appriaciate the added dangers that we will have to face because of some stupid cartoon. printed to provoke a response. Because the some of the media has not shown alittle common sense and respect. These are the same men and women who hold the line and defend your freedom of rights daily. And when these radical muslims actually do restrict any of your freedoms they will gladly take the fight to them no questions asked. Yes they were dying well before the cartoon broke out, but all those riots,killings that are happening right now that can be directly linked to the publishing of these cartoons directly have an impact on our Soldiers that are serving in Afgan right now. So ask a soldier serving over there now does he think all this grief is worth a few cartoons so some dick head can put a few more dollars in his pocket. We don't need to unnessicarily give these crack head radical muslims any more of an excuses to kill than they already have. What have these media god's done except re-publish the same cartoons for profits. Ya that 's it i've had enough of this shit re-publish the cartoons that will show them we are serious No i'm not frightened, more like very concerned that a Canadian soldier may have to pay with his life, because some stupid cartoon enraged some radical muslim, and i don't think that price would be worth a cartoon, just so we could prove a piont.

Betsy: So you agree that it is OK to say or print something offensive to someone or group when ever you want but when they throw a trantrum or take action again'st you, "you call them a bully." and you would consider it a normal response to push back. Sounds like something kids do on the play ground. It's not the actions of a grown-up or for that matter a media outlet who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us normal citizens. No actually my piont was that those media outlets were not standing -up for our rights, they were not protecting our freedom of speech or some other noble deed. They did what they did because of the bottom line "money". and strung along their readers by hiding behind Our freedom of speech. Thats the real beauty about free enterprise is'nt it. it's all about the money not about what is right or wrong. Yes they were dying well before the cartoon broke out, but all those riots,killings that are happening right now that can be directly linked to the publishing of these cartoons directly have an impact on our Soldiers that are serving in Afgan right now. So ask a soldier serving over there now does he think all this grief is worth a few cartoons so some dick head can put a few more dollars in his pocket. We don't need to unnessicarily give these crack head radical muslims any more of an excuses to kill than they already have. What have these media god's done except re-publish the same cartoons for profits. Ya that 's it i've had enough of this shit re-publish the cartoons that will show them we are serious. Why don't you read a few comments made by soldiers, the same soldiers that have sacraficed so much for those freedoms you only talk about. These are the thoughts of a few of those that are serving over there now or who have recently returned from Afgan. None of our current freedoms are in danger or being dismantled. My Webpage My Webpage You have still not answer the question do you think they are news worthy, or where they printed to provoke a group. Can anyone out there educate me on why these cartoons are news worthy when they were first printed , or do you think they were printed to provoke a response.

Betsy: And ? have you been following along here, Argus piont was that he seen it as the Media standing-up in solidarity for thiers and ours, freedom of speech, bullshit.... they did it for profit. What is not dollar driven, The soldiers that are actually standing the line, overseas right now are not dollar driven "because if you think the pay is worth plus 45 degrees in an hostile enviroment your wrong." The same soldiers who's lives have been put in greater danger because some dick head decisded he and his paper could make a few dollars. Lets not forget the every day average citizen who may be taken hostage or worse killed so that some radical may prove his piont. All this over a stupid carton is it worth it. Tell us all how you have suffered. tell us how anyone in Canada has suffered. Perhaps you can educate me , explain to me how those cartoons are news worthy, perhaps you can explain to me what was the piont in printing them if not to provoke the muslims. I don't recall speaking for you,or deciding anything for you, or for that matter making any judgements for you. I have been quoted in saying most normal Canadians perhaps you don't fit into that catagory. But then again freedom of speech is only good if we all comply to your way of thinking. That we can insult anyone ,anytime because it's falls under our freedom of speech. You can call them what ever you want, however as i pionted out a million times that your freedom speech has limitations. and yes there are laws governing what you can't say, I've mentioned before that some of those laws are covered under the harrasment laws which have a broad spectrum of Interputation "harrassment is anything that one individual percieves to be offensive, degrading,etc etc " it does not have to be directed at you, it could be part of a privite conversation you are not meant to hear. all that is need is for that on individual to say i find that offensive and you may find yourself in court. I did not write the laws or regulations i just passed on that info.

Argus: The media is a business, like any business it is driven by profit. not some noble idea of keeping us informed, that is a by product. If the news does not sell papers it's not going to recieve the same coverage. By using your logic if all europe had seen it as you do then why did they not all stand-up in solidarity, Why did'nt the european union stand-up and say enough is enough. because they are not united on this issue. First off it was a cartoon, it had nothing to do with presenting a news worthy story, it's intention was to make fun of or show in a bad light a certain ethinic group. You've been defending your right to insult someone, or group when ever you want, and declaring your justified under freedom of speech. If i as an individual say or do something that is offensive to someone or some group and that person or group of people inform me that it is offensive a "normal" person would chalk that up to a learning experiance and not repeat it. IE telling ethinic jokes in front of that ethinic group, either you did not know it was offensive or you are looking to provoke something. Are you telling me that the media are not capable of express or reporting news without being offensive. Yes we are human and make mistakes or use bad judgement, we admit that and carry on with our lives. Most normal people do not continue to be offensive unless they are looking to provoke a response. There is a big difference between calmly discussing things of substance or trying to make a piont through insults. Because we both know that in this country we are capable of sitting down and discussing almost any topic without being offensive towards both sides. Would we be able to have the same conversation if a news paper depicted a cartoon depicting naked gay man bent over a table with a wedding gown on and another gay man jamming him up the arse with a tuxedo on.

I've said in previous posts that i am not making excuses for the muslims actions, and like you agree that they have gone way overboard. However, the danes Muslim community have told them at the very start of this chain of events that they find these cartoons offensive, (this is where it should have stopped) that would have been the common sense thing to do. But that is not what happens because it does not sell papers. Thats not what i'm getting from some of the remarks. You mean the same way you would react to a total stranger commenting on your wifes chest, or some other remark that you find extremely offensive. who are we to say how they should react, when we don't know just how offensive the remark is to them. We have already proven that we as Canadians can and will react to remarks we find offensive perhaps not burning down buildings or death threats but exchange physical blows with those responsable. It's easy for us to sit in our easy chairs and comment on our freedoms and to preach to those that we think are not acting the way we want them to. And then tell them in the same breath i can make any comments i'd like because it's my right, and if you don't like it F--k you. and then to think we are not escalating the whole problem. I think respect is a two way street, and if we want to sit in our chairs and pass judgement on others then we should be setting the example for them to follow. Not telling them it's my right to insult you, when i want , however i want. Shut the f--k -up. Because that is what we have done, but will it solve anything. Will it bring the world closer to being able to function the way we want them to. or is it only going to escalate things.

Argus: perhaps i am confused, I will agree with you the "first time the cartoon appeared" it could have been incidental, and perhaps they did not know it was offensive( Unlikely,but for sake of augument) after the cartoon was shown for the first time the muslim community in europe had told the media that it was offensive to thier culture. ( My piont is that this is when the publishing of these cartoons should have stopped, once it is found it is offensive) But that does not sell papers, they continued to publish the cartoons, quoting it was thier right under freedom of speach. The continues publishing of these cartoons were deliberate and understandably offensive conduct directed at specific group within thier communities. Because it may not be offensive to me or you does not mean it may not be offensive to others, and they do see it as a challenge that will incite a violent reaction. As we have already seen on the media. It's aimed at no one Give me a break, what group of people do you think it was aimed at, what ethinic group first poped into your mind. OK i agree, but what is your piont one can use common sense and respect at the bar, but not on the internet or in this case the media because you fell safe from physical violence. Nobody is saying "we must obey" anything it is after all our freedom of speach, what I'm saying is that freedom has limitations and in using that freedom wantonly there are consquences. I don't see the big deal here we as Canadians use common sense and respect when we deal with different minorities in our every day lives, why should we then not make our media do the same. Do they have different rights and freedoms than we do. Or are you saying that it is impossiable to report on world affairs without using common sense and respect. and what does the showing of cartoons have to do with the reporting of the news, other than to poke fun at an ethinic group. This is not about freedom of speech, it's about selling news papers, and headlines...Since when does the Media care about your freedoms. for them It's all about money it always has been... Freedom of speech does not allow you to say what ever you want, when you want without consquences . and if you don't like that: tough.. Yes it is, for good reason be it censorship in the media or self censorship it's here and has been forever, and is not likely to go anytime soon.

I think we have blown this all out of proportion. And we are using arguments that really don't apply. The press are claiming that thier freedom of speach is being curtailed. When in fact it is not being curtailed but they are finding out it has limitations. The same limitations that normal every day Canadians use everyday. Like walking down a crowded mall a commenting on every womens Ass or breast out loud , or from making racist remarks, or just using profanity around a crowd of elderly women. Millions of muslims have already said it is insulting to them and thier religion that much we know already thru thier actions or thier media. (thier actions being right or wrong here are not the piont) the piont being we already know they find it insulting. Again MOST normal Canadians don't continue to insult someone once they find out the remark is insulting I said most... There are those that say" i like to see them to make up my own mind", "WHY" is my question to them, do you have to decide anything when millions have already said it's insulting to thier culture. do we continue to insult them until everyone in the globe gets to see these stupid cartoons. so that they can make -up thier own minds. Give me a break.... If i told you SHIT stinks do you actually have to bend down a take a whiff, "YUP" shit stinks, i guess you were right. or poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick hurts. This whole thing is not about stomping on our freedom of speach because of threats or actions that the muslims are taking. It was about the media using good judgement in the first place. again common sense and respecting other races or culture. I find it at little ironic that europe has brought to court a man whom was a Pro Nazi whom was expressing is own opinions on the holocaust. Expressing his freedoms of speach so he says . And yet thier media continue to publish these cartoons knowing full well it provokes them (muslims) into violence. My Webpage Do we continue to provoke them until something stupid happens and a conflict breaks out. When do we stop. where do we draw the line. It's not about us standing the line flexing our muscles "don't F--k with our freedom of speach". And it's not about "let everyone see them and judge for themselfs" it's about showing respect and using common sense.

What i find impossiable to imagine is how could any sub dept spend 1 bil let alone 4 bil dollars, they have no major equipment to purchase. If what FTA is saying is true that security is the issue could the goverment not have purchase a wpns locker for each gun owner for that amount of money. Are they still hiring because they must be paying pretty good.

kimmy: I don't see it as protecting anyone, i see it as showing respect and using common sense. We already know what thier (muslims) reaction is going to be, they have already told us it is offensive. This situation could be compared to calling a African American the N word to thier face, we know already it is an offensive remark and most people refrain from using it because of respect, or common sense. Not all jews or christians can handle this stuff, as history will show us. It's not about protecting anyone it's about showing respect and using our common sense. Actually it is a right, it is a form of harassment and the federal government definition for harassment is what ever an individual perceices to be offensive. Which as you can see by the definition can encompass just about anything. I can't speak for any other Goverment dept, but here in the military it has a major impact to the piont they have manitory harassment, ethics, lectures for all personal both military and civilian, and a 2 week course for harassment advisors. Again as i stated before it is a right, however i will agree with you the news should be covered, but it should be done with common sense and respect. And that can be done with out being offensive. You make it sound like we can't cover the news with out being offensive, i think that was already proven with the Canadain media coverage of the cartoons. or do we really need to see them, do we need to see beheadings, or bannana stuck in an anus to actually get the real feel of the news. or can we use common sense and respect and still get our piont across.

I don't know if this was intended for me or not. But i'll respond anyways. I think that the Canadian muslims are handling this subject in a Canadian way. The way that most Canadians would handle it. They have told us that they find the cartoons offensive and the canadian media with a few exceptions have listened and respected thier rights as Canadians and have not printed the cartoons. How does this infringe on our freedom of speech. My piont here is that this is not about freedom of speech but respecting another culture. they have let us know that they have crossed the line...(be it thru violence or not they have made it clear that it is offensive) It is our turn to say OK ,sorry won't happen again...but that is not happening because it does not sell papers It's not about provoking the muslims but doing what is right.

Betsy: Has your freedom of speech been surpressed here in Canada. NO, it has not, your freedoms and rights stop at the borders. you do not have the same freedoms that you enjoy here in Canada, in say Afgan, Iraq, or any where else. you may think so but they do not. Are thier actions having a effect on your freedom of speech here in Canada. "None that i'm aware of". In the situation i gave you on another post you said both parties were wrong, one more than the other ,but both were wrong. Why can't the media admit that they are sorry that the cartoons were found to be offensive and no offense was meant. and let the issue fad away. It is what most grown-ups do when in that situation. But the media has not shown the world that they are grown-up and continue to re-print these cartoons insiting more violence, because that sells more papers, this has stopped being about freedom of speech long ago and now is about profits. What does that have to do with freedoms of speech, nothing...I'm not making excuses for any of the violence that the muslims have done nor trying to justify it...My piont here is the media is hidding behind freedoms of speech ,to cover-up thier part in all this. there the ones pulling the strings to sell more news papers. It has got nothing to do with Freedom of speech. What credibility have we lost, it was reported , the public is informed , they have done their jobs. If anything they have gained credibility by not printing something that another culture finds offensive.

fixer1 My piont here is that my common sense tells me that by me exericising my freedoms of speech do have consquences and can draw a violent reaction. i knew all that before the remarks were said, but said them anyways and yet now i'm hiding being my freedom of speech to prove i'm justified in what i said. that i have the right to freedom of speech and can say what ever comes to mind regardless of consquences or outcome. Most grown-ups know the limitations to thier freedoms and exericise them accordingly, this was not the case with the media.

I agree with Black dog this issue has nothing to do with freedom of speech, Here in Canada it is now being used for profit and recongition and to provoke futher action,thats it. We do this everday, which is why we use common sense when using our freedom of speech. Tell an over wieght women She's a cow, have a complete stranger comment on your wife or girlfriends breasts while your standing next to her. These examples would be an irresponsible use of my freedoms of speech, because they would proably provoke a violent response either verbal or punch in the face. But then again i knew that before hand, what the proable outcome would be. So while i'm wiping the blood from my nose and watching you being arrested for assualt ,who's right here Me for exericising my freedom of speech and not exericising common sense or you for finding the comment offensive and punching me in the face.

Betsy: Yes we do have to be viligant in protecting these freedoms, But in using of freedoms we must use common sense, and to use those freedoms as there were intended to be used. These freedoms does not give us the right to say or print what ever we like. Perhaps you can explain what was gained by printing these cartoons? What have most Canadian media outlets lost from not printing them ? I'm well aware of the sacrifice that our nations soldiers have made to ensure our freedoms, as i am one. My piont is that those freedoms are not being used as they were intended to be used, and there are limitations to all our freedoms.

We in Canada are among the many countries that have more freedoms than most, those freedoms should be used as they were intended, and should be used with caution and common sense. They do not give us the right to insult, mock, make racist comments etc. While we are here in Canada protected under the umbrella of all our rights and freedoms we must remain viligant on how we use our freedoms. A soldiers opinon.

This soldier has sworn and signed alligance to serve his country both home and abroad. No soldier has the right to decide which war or conflict they will serve in. This contract is no different than any other contract signed by any individual and it must be upheld in a court of law.. And as explained before He and the others that are in the same situation are Cowards. and should be returned to the US for what ever punishment they deserve. His claim that he will be forced to commit crimes/ kill innocent people is utterly bullshit...Nobody can make a soldier kill or for that matter fire a wpn on the battlefield. If he's that concerned he could be a medical assistantant or strecher bearer You don't have to pull the trigger but you have to atleast show-up. By not doing so he forces another individual to serve in his place.