Army Guy

BD: Yes and NO, insurgent leaders do base thier strikes on public opinion. And will do so to maximism there results. The mission success depends on alot of things, the soldiers jobs over there, but also what and how the mission is percieved at home, IE Vietnam was not lost on the battle field but at home so Yes the home front plays a big role in the operation. Before Canada agrees to the next mandate ? but then again the way we are going perhaps once a week...

I'm alittle confused and have asked this question to others who believe that our present commitment to Afgan needs to be debated. WHY ? Why do we need to debate a misssion that has already been approved by our government. or should i say previous governments dating back to MR Cretien... WHERE was everyone back then ? Did we not need to debate it because it was a Liberal directive ? Today everyone is just waking up NOW that we have been there for over 2 years and still have another 1.5 years to go we suddenily need to debate. How many times do we need to debate this topic once a year, every 6 months or when ever a soldier comes home draped in a flag? In the military indecision is a sign of bad leadership, the time for debate is over, and will serve no purpose, If our government has the balls to send us over there then they should stand by the decissions, not second guess them every time a NDP, or Liberal wants to make polictical pionts. And that is all this is about ....IF the Canadian People still today do not know about Afgan it is because they choose not to...Who many out there believe we should be debating something else say health care or education instead of going over old decissions.

piercj2: I provided you with 4 web pages, and if you had bothered to read thru them i think you'll find some of the answers you asked. If you are looking for an entire army made up of women then NO there is none, but then again name me an army that was made up of entirely men. Women have played a role, in modern combat dating back before WWII. and have fought consistently in those armies since then. Why is that so hard for you to believe. These are not facts but some pionts you have convinced your self into believing , back them up with some ref or sources. These are NOT facts but what you've lead yourself to believe...Your the one making these bold statements you should be the one providing the proof not heresay. Are you for real ,Did some chick handcuff you to a bed with a lite candle jammed up your arse and left you to your own demise, and now it hurts to fart, and passing gas still makes you nervous, that and your arse now craves candles ....Your psychiatrist said you should vent your problems verbally instead thru your arse. You can't expect me us to take you serious when your opinons are based on half baked ideas.

Black dog: I can not find anything on the Net, and will conceed..that being said i find it hard to believe that those that did move to Trans jordan just found an empty space and set up shop. It's done every where in every country, normally done in the exchange of money or goods but even in Canada we have done it . Example just last week there was CBC snipe on those farmers moved from thier lands around the Montreal airport during it's expansion some time ago. Nope: that's the number used by most credible historians (I'm citing Benny Morris, the Israeli historian and population transfer advocate). This number has grown to include over 4.6 million displaced Palestinians today, about 3.7 million of whom are currently registered as refugees with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA). Of these, somewhat over a million live in camps run by UNRWA. Generally, refugees living in the camps live in conditions of abject poverty and overcrowding. They constitute a monumental humanitarian and political problem, and no resolution of the conflict can ignore them.The refugee problem has been at the heart of peace negotiations since 1949. Refugee camps are located in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, and house somewhat over a million refugees. About 100,000 Arabs living in Israel were displaced from their own villages by force by Israeli forces And at the same time it would be impossiable to say how many left with no intention of returning. so it does play a role in determining numbers. And just when do you stop, giving them land, the orginal document intended to give the jews all of trans jordan, and the 2 and and 3 rd agreements the jews were left with just 23 % of the orginal deal. and at this piont in time the Muslims are still not satisfied. WHY the want it 'ALL". My Webpage And whom was going to give them justice, The British. americans, hell the Canadians . nobody wanted them, and do you really blame the jews for wanting to flee europe. after 6 million of them were slaughtered. What justice did the jews get anyway, if that had been 6 million brits or US citizens germany would have been erased from our history. much like the indians in NFLD. It was a sound decision to give the jews some place to go, since nobody else wanted them, and the fact Trans jorden still had a large jewish population in the area, plus it's historical ties. Both sides were being compasated for thier troubles, in the promise of land, and a chance to build a nation. Actually Yes, perhaps you can explain the division of germany's lands or the Turks lands after WWI ending in 1919 (slightly after 1907) and why it was upheld after WW II. And yet when you look at a map these lands lost by germany are not marked "occupied" nor are the new boundries in bosina marked Occupied nor are the lands that nations have won in combat be it for what ever reason. Just Israel is so divided. After many hours of research i found this article which supports more of your aggument than mine but i found it very interesting. But his solutions to correct this problem are not feesiable. bringing everything back to square one. My Webpage

piercj2: This was my quote i believe, Which was in response to your retarded remark...It is your opinion nothing more and one that is not based on fact. You'll just have to get used to the fact that there are women out there that can out perform men. Thats why, i really think woman should just stay at home (expecially when it comes to anything physical) they are not as strong and athletic as a guys, they get thier feelings hurt easier, they cry when they get mad, they gossip and talk behind people's backs like its nothing- and thats why they did stay up home up until the middle of the twentieth century. One day they people may start attempting to figure this out. WTF is your piont that a man the same statue of a women is 60 % stronger, OK big deal, i agree ...however having strength is not the end all be all. there is more to it. Drive, determination, and will can over power strength any day. IE most women in the Infantry are between 110 and 130 lbs and carry loads nearing thier own body wieght, the avg Infantry male is between 150 and 180 lbs and carrys the same load of a 110 lbs on thier back. My piont is if they want to do the JOB, they'll do it, and they should be given the oportunity to do so. regardless of what your opinion is. You must of sleep during that class in history, or were you at the Gym pumping iron. You should really learn to do your own research before making stupid remarks about subjects you know little about. My Webpage Below is a few sites that list famous women that were in combat. My Webpage My Webpage Perhaps you should also take a look at WWII in general, the Russian, Nazi, Polish, all used women in front line units. CONCLUSION- woman will always complain about not having something because they cannot acheive what a man can acheive and be satisfied with who they are- they will never get there way because their way changes whenever they cannot acheive something and then blame someone or something for it- That sounds like womans history in the last sixty years now doesen't it???? Conclusion - You've based your beliefs on opinion not fact, your scared now that there may be a girl out there that can kick your ass, at anything you can do....time to grow up

Black dog: Regardless of who was the majority, the bulk of the Muslims had taken up the british offer and had no problems setting up what is today called Jordan, The land set aside for all muslims to call thier own. Why is it we do not hear about those muslims that already lived in jordan that were displaced to make room for the many that did take the offer and move. And they also fail to mention the many jews that were evicted from these lands . That number is also questionable, as both sides declare different numbers depending on the site. Also included in those numbers were those fleeing the upcoming war, those that had taken up the advise from other Muslim countries to leave. I'm not contesting that some forms of ethinic cleansing did not take place, but not in these numbers. And this cleansing was also done on both sides. This whole history of these agreements are one sided, muslims were given everything they asked for, and in the end still refused because they wanted it all. Coming back to the orginal question did the jews deserve a homeland or a nation. And do you think that the sides would have been reversed if the jews had gotten nothing. Yes, but in those times land captured in battle was acceptable, for example look at germany after WWI or WWII, historically that is what made nations. The only nation not subjected to this had been Israel it has been forced.

Black dog: No i'm not thinking of Jordan. If you had read The Balfour declaration of 1917 then the palestine mandate of 1921 you would clearly see that the British were in fact trying to make both sides happy, Jewish and Muslim by creating countries for both sides. and if you follow all the documents since the balfour you'll clearly see that in thrying to appease the muslims that the terroritory finally granted to Israel shrunk to but a small chunk of the orginal agreement. You mention that Muslims were displaced, yes they were but again if you had read the a history that followed the agreements you would clearly see that so were the Jewish forced to moved from Trans jordan into what is now called Israel. Both sides were uprooted, But because thier were more Muslims to be moved they again agreed to change the rules. No jewish settlers were allowed into muslim Trans jordan. But those Muslims that refused to move to Jordan could stay in what is known as Israel. "sounds fair to me" In fact perhaps you can tell me how many jews are in jordan today, how many are in Syria, Iraq, or any of the other nations that were created just after WW I. Are the numbers comparable with the Arabs living in Israel as Israelis citizens. In fact lets just for shits and giggles include ALL NON- Muslims that are citizens of a muslim country. My Webpage Why is it that those muslim countries have no problems accepting the land that was given to them. Not true, many were trans planted into the area. You mean like our own case of the american indian, Governance is important because it clearly shows who actually owns the land or it's title. for example land in Canada is either own by a person, corp, or the government. you can't just find a vacant lot and set up shop, and call it yours,"well you could " but you would not have any legal claim to it. Yes i am, but then again i'm sure you've heard that people in glass houses should not throw rocks. And what gives us the right to judge another nation for acting the same way we did. Besides when Canada was being settled, it was not because we were forced out of our countries, nor was it because nobody else wanted us, nor was it because we were being slaughtered by the millions and stuffed into ovens. It was because of the chance of getting rich,adventure, starting over."much better reasons than that of the jewish population. How far back can you trace your lineage, So i doubt even the Muslims can trace thier linage back to thier claims. So now we are at a stalemate, we have historical text that state that everyone involved could have a claim against the HOLY LAND, at one time or another. which one do you want to use. because if you go back far enough you'll find that niether the jews or muslims were the orginal owners . Thier claim is spelled out in those acts and agreements we've been talking about. Israel does not want to expand it's terroritories it wants to be left alone. It wants what ever nation wants peace. Actually i mean NON muslim, if Israelis were muslims i doubt there would be such a stink. Ive never said that, but has all the muslim nations said "we will not stop until all sunni/shiite is wiped off the map. have they all banded together and tried to wiped them out.

Black dog: Did'nt we already go through this. Yes i said lemons, Jewish people already in the region at the same time that your muslim brothers occupied the land were under constant attack by our muslim brothers you know the ones that are so toleratant of other religions, customs, Israel has been under siege since it's inception. In fact Israel is still at a constant state of readiness. Correct me if i'm wrong but Israel was not the only nation that was created at the time. Why is it that those muslim countries have no problems accepting the land that was given to them. They don't, they are happy with that, thier problem is that they will not tolerate Jews in any form, And those so called people you stated, that occupied what is now called Israel were part of what nation, what flag. In fact whose flag were they governed under. was it the British flag, and before that was it turkey. They have no more claim to that land than squatters in your backyard. Did we give a shit when we ejected the Indians from what is called Canada. Nope in fact we rounded them all up and put them in reservations...sound familar...What gives us a right to judge them when we ourselfs share the same history. I will agree that the division of land was not the best solution to the problem. But it's not the cause of a festering wound that divides the region. It's the fact they are jewish period. The muslim countries that were created at the same time even sharing the same borders do not have any problems with each other. Why is that because they are not Jewish that is why.

I see your piont. however the Canadian government did authorize the use of force in Crypus to stop the fighting, does that count. The Airbourne Regt actually made a combat jump between the two sides, engaging both until they both agreed to stop fighting temporily atleast. But then again one could use germany as an example could it not we were there until 1992.

I did say most not all, your forgeting Algeria,Iran,Iraq,Libya,sudan,syria,Yemen, and i'm not sure about the UAE or Saudi Arabia which i think just did so in 2005 i can't remember. And this is just the ME countries what about the other Muslim countries there is 32 nations after all. I'm not saying Israel is not capable of dealing from the bottom of the deck. but this is a nation that has been handed lemons from day one. And despite the muslim nations constant aggresion it is still there. That is what pisses them all off. and from hundard years from now it will still piss them off. 1967 war, BD your reading to many muslim web sites..Yes Israel did invade lebanon, but then again who did'nt but that conflict was spilling over into Israel. The Osirak bombing another good one, in fact one could bet that if they had'nt the chances of Bush finding that magical WMD would have been increased. Lets not forget killing a Canadian Citizen because he was in charge of Sadams long range arty projects. Not even close , Egypt has over 300,000 ground troops alone, even Syria has more combat troops than Israel. Survival is the question, and sometimes it baffals me just how they manged to survive to this piont.

Black dog: Canada just pulled out of Sryia after more than 30 years there, what about Cyprus. This country is no stranger to long term commitments. i personal don't see things changing in afgan for awhile yet...Peace needs a generation to take hold, those people need to see what could be lost if they take back up an armed struggle. right now they now nothing of peace. so they think they have nothing to lose. It makes you nervous, I'm going back for my second tour in August, along with my wife who is also in the military. that makes me nervous...But i would'nt have asked to go back if i did not think it was all worth something.

Black dog: My Webpage lets call a dog a dog, you don't have to go back that many years and your list of ME countries that supported terrorists to undermine Israel would have been as long as my arm. If you mean have Isrealis citizens strapped explosives onto themselfs and dentonated themselfs in a crowded plaza, church, I'd like to read about that.. If you mean an Isrealis citizen walking into a crowded place armed with a machine gun ,yes there has been a few, but they are rare when compared how often it was done by PLO or Hamas or for that matter any known muslim terrorist organization. But if you mean that Israel hunted down terrorists and killed them regardless of the cost ...I'd say YES when your surrounded, out gunned, out manned, go on the offensive. I will agree with you, that i don't think both sides actually know just how it all started, nor care. what they do know is the hate that this has brought to both sides.

Black dog: Harper has already commented on this, he predicts a long term mission, however he can not comment on Canada's role past our mandate in 07. Harper has already commented on this as well, there are no commitments past the 07 year. and Aid will vary year to year. If you mean how much are we going to spend on the military MY answer is not enough, the Canadian answer as little as possiable.

Black dog: Harper has already commented on this, he predicts a long term mission, however he can not comment on Canada's role past our mandate in 07. Harper has already commented on this as well, there are no commitments past the 07 year. and Aid will vary year to year. If you mean how much are we going to spend on the military MY answer is not enough, the Canadian answer as little as possiable.

politika: There is not many operations that are carried out with out a media tail. and they report est numbers. Such as those that were reported last week. My question is why do we need to know the exact numbers killed ? are we keeping score is it not enough to know that the Taliban are paying the same price we are. The military has been very clear about our mission, the CDS has made numerous speachs and comments on "why" we are over there. It's time the Canadian people start listening "we are not handing out teddy bears and candy, as the CDS said we are hunting down these scumbags. The mission has not changed since the liberals left. We were sent over there to bring peace to this nation, and in order to do that we have to use force.

Leafless: Not true, Canadian military had a full mech inf Brigade group along with a complete fighter air wing in germany up until 1992, plus the military is responsable for a majority of the SAR (search and rescue), it provides Naval ves to US carrier battle groups, carries out any major NATO naval exericises. the list goes on and on and on, and when the got 5 mins they go to floods and ice storms etc etc... As much as i dislike the liberals, we can't blame all this on them, the conservatives can take thier share as well, disbandment of the airbourne regt, Cutting military funding, etc etc.... I think it is alittle unfair to say that we have no functional army, air, or navy forces when we have completed any mission Canada has given to us. It's unfair in the sense that you may be judging those that serve our country. After all it is the government and the people of Canada that truely decide how large we are , how we are equiped, etc etc....perhaps you should direct your frustrations towards them. I'd also like to piont out that we do have some of the best equipment in the world, OK only in limited numbers most of which is in Afgan now, ..My piont is that that equipment has been purchased because Canadian soldiers have died using the old ,cheapest bidder stuff...not because the Canadian tax payer decided to educate themselfs on the plight of thier military and demanded from our government they purchase something...Because the military proved over and over again that it was unsafe....it is a sad day when a nation places the lives of it's soldiers over a dollar. My piont is this the Canadian taxpayer is the guy grumbling about the state of our military and yet "they" and the government of thier choosing are the ones responsable for that condition. If everyone grab thier balls and squezed and demanded from our goverment to just finish off equiping the forces we have now, i'm sure hell would freeze over, and toronto would finally win the cup.

Canadians don't know about thier military because they choose not to. As for the Afgan mission, this mission has recieve more media coverage than any other, a soldier can't even fart over there without reading about it in all the national papers. In the last month or more it has been debated in every media outlet in Canada. If Canadians don't know the facts now it's because they again choose not to. So my question is what facts do the Canadian people need That they don't already have access to ?

WIlber: Thats what he gets paid for, keeping these guys off the street, i would hope that after a few times of this guy getting arrested, spending some time in local jail until the cops sorted out what was going on ,that it would motivate the convict to get his life sorted out. What other measure do we have to make this bad guys pay thier debt for thier crimes. Perhaps adding the cost of his return to his new sentence would make sense. I asked the question, to see if his traval outside the country would be impaired as well.

I think it's great, and if it had been my credit card he'd stole i'd be even happier, in knowing that ever time this guy gets pulled over he it cost him his own time, and money to get his life back on track. I also agree about each province not paying for his transportation back to the scene of the crime. He's cost the taxpayers enough already. If this guy was serious about putting his life back together let him take a bus back to Ont to get this sorted out. until then lets keep locking him up. Just a question what happens to this guy if he travels out of country, do this arrest warrents show-up on say the US police computers.

I'm afraid BD is right, most Canadians do have happy images of Canadian peacekeepers. Why because it is more palatable perhaps. It is the line that past governments has feed the tax payer. be it to justify spending some money on military equipment which never seems to arrive "unless it can be directly tied to peacekeeping" or to justify the occasional dead soldier. I would attribute all this, to a majority of Canadians not being versed in our own Military history. In a world where most of us take for granted the freedoms and rights that we have today. Most of which are tied to that very history. But somewhere, some time we as a country have decided that having a military is bad, arming them for WAR even worse, going as far as removing it from school history programs. Canadian soldiers primary mission is not peacekeeping, never has been, But rather a polictical instrument of our government to solve problems that they can not solve verbally, but require the use of force, and violence. Of which Canada has used force and violence to solve peacekeeping issues, but these things are not so widely made public are they "god forbid we destroy the image our government has painted" Canadian soldiers have been living this lie for more than 40 or more years. You don't get a good reputation for peacekeeping just for handing out teddy bears and candy, you get it because we can get the job done thru the use of military presence and if required the use of force. Below are some interesting news articles on this very topic. My Webpage My Webpage My Webpage My Webpage

Sami: So what is Pakistan action plan to deal with these "freedom Fighters". The NATO including the US has repeatily asked them to take action again'st Terrorist EX Taliban fighters, And they have somewhat. And we both know that the Pakistan people or thier government will not allow the west to go in thier and clean them out. So that leaves Pakistan to come up with a plan to drive them out , or have them put down thier wpns. With Afgan land locked US troops would have had to enter from somewhere, and that country would have been allied with the US in other words subject to Soviet aggresion as well. It is my opinon that any confrontation with Russia would have spread quickly around the globe. That whole area would have been one smoking hole for years to come. So madebe the indirect role was the best chioce in regards to lives lost. There are many facts pionting in that direction. A majority of ME countries have refused to recongize Israel as a nation, Most ME countries have a defense pact with palistine to deter attacks from Israel, Most ME countries have in the past vowed to push Israel into the sea, and have taken military action on serveral occasions. Some ME countries have sponsored terror activities in Israel. Egypts ground forces alone are well over 300,000 and continues to grow at a rapid pace. UAE ground forces are over 100,000 with a defense budget over 18.3 bil or 13 % of GDP. (which of all the ME countries is one of the smallest Militaries) Thats alot of money put out for just fighting terrorists, yes terrorist are a problem but nothing on this scale. In fact Egypt holds regular military exericises where it's objectives are Israel.

Thanks BD, it's good to have you back, educate me... Is the sole purpose of the Chinese government the destruction of another nation through terrorism ? what about Saudi Arabia ? do they openily support terrorists and thier activities. Is most of thier governments made up of known terrorists. These nations are not angels by no means. But i find it alittle ironic that we have declared war on terrorism but only agree to fighting the little guys. And are we saying that we are that dependant on "made in China" that we could not live with out that trade. just curious but how much trade do the chinese get from us "made in Canada". I mean could those labels not read Made in mexico, or tawain, some other 3 rd world nation. Or are we as a nation going to just puff our chests out when we know we can take that guy ,slam him, nobody will care.

Sami: Are there not more ME countries that have invited western troops into thier countries than have not. Am having a difficult time seeing how the ME people are seeing this as a second crusade, And can only see Iraq as an example of western interferance, unless you are also taking into account Afgan. And did they not think that Sadam's regime was a threat ,or for that matter the Talibans regime. Was there a ME plan to look after these problems, If there was then it was not made public to the west. Yes there is, and yet we have seen most of these ME countries use this wealth to build massive armies, invest in Nuke wpns, for what reasons, to combat the Israelis, to fight each other, or to stop western influence in the area. they have not chosen to improve thier peoples quality of life but rather chase the dream of destruction of the Israelis and punsh the west. I've been to the Uof E and it is a fantasic country, richer than most western nations by far. The quality of life for thier citizens is light years ahead of the rest of the ME. Is this the fault of western countries or thier own rulers. I will not argue that business beats war any day. But the nations interest must be on business and in the ME it is not. They are focused on Israel and the US militarily, only a few nations in the ME are concentrating on Business but even the U of E and Egypt have been steadily increasing it's military forces. This extremism is a ME problem, that should be solved at their level, The west needs to see that the ME is at least taking steps to curve it. but it is not. Religion rules the ME it's Clerics educate the people as they see fit. it only takes a few bad apples to spread the hate as you called it. The ME governments are control to a great extent by religion. when they learn to control religion then they can concentrate on bringing everyone to the same page and bring about change for the better. Yes they did, but even that did not work out that well did it, are you saying that Iranians are better off now, that the Iranian government is not oppresive. The US has made bad chioces in the past i believe all nations have and i also believe that we in the west are ignorant of the Situation in the ME. So educate us, not terrorize us. It would be alot more cost effective. I stand corrected, i agree. The muslim religion itself is not spreading hatred, but clerics are using thier religious services to spread hate, giving quotes from the Koran to back thier message. I've just started reading the Koran to try to understand more about the religion so i'm no expert. And why is that, and what does that say about ME muslims. I agree totally, but with so much hate of the west do ME muslims think this will further their cause and improve thier lives. hatred only breds hatred.

Perhaps you should do some reading up on Israel dating back just before 1948 and find out why the Country of Israel has so much occupied land with the Israelis flag flying over it. Before you accuse them of sanctioned genocide.

A second crusade in which way ? Muslims extremist have brought the war to the west, in more ways than (9/11). and what do you mean having the west leave thier countries , do you mean western military forces or are you applying all western companys ,civilians etc, please explain. as for being hypocrites i will agree the west has in the past formed relations with some unsaviory ME dictators. but then again most ME countries have engaged in the same process "acted when ever it benifits thier own state" or own means. And Iran would be an example of this, Syria, there is a few more...ME has a long history of dictatorships that the west has not had hand in creating . These nations have no problem supressing thier own people for thier own gains. These dictatorships thrive because the people of those nations allow it, not because they are supported by the west or east for that matter. ME history is full of examples of ME countries throwing of the yokes of the west or east. Yes the west has some ownership in some of the problems in the ME, But to sit there and blame just the west for all thier problems is just fantasy...We have not decided to blame religion, ME countries are using religion to spread thier messages, to recruit, and to kill why would we not blame religion. Stop blaming the west for all the problems in the world, let the ME take ownership of thier own problems and find thier own solutions.