CANADIEN

Actually, an empath would listen to whatever is daid by any Muslim, no matter or bigoted it may be, and if they had anything in mind that they keep would help mend fene they would renounce it, but after all it's Christians who burned the book.

Indeed, it does not preclude the building of that centre. Not one bit.

To be fait. I do not think it was lack of empathy. I would personally describe it as a cop-out.

As I said before, and don't worry I will not need to repeat it again, I will not fail to see that what you call empathy is a call for the proponents of the Cordoba Project to act as if THEY were responsible for 9-11. You will notice, btw, that I have never said you had demonized Muslims, or that you had misrepresentated their intent. Try to stick to what I say. Good thing to know that anybody on this thread respect their views, considering that nobody to my knowledge has seen fit to even acknowledge their existence until now. As for the fact they are not in the majority. It is irrelevant. Their feelings as people who have lost loved ones on 9-11 count as much as those of the people who have lost loved one on 9-11 and oppose the project. The only reason why it is not achieving the stated goal is because of those who refuse to let that goal be accomplished.

Feel free to delude yourself into thinking what you are asking the proponents of the project to do des not amount to assuming guilt for what happened. I don't have to. And feel free to call me ignorant or any other epithet that comes to your mind because I won't share in your self-delusion. I have been called far worse things by far better people than you, and at least some of them happened to be right on the target.

Want to talk about empathy, AW¬ Let's talk about empathy... Empathy is understanding where other people come from. what it is NOT is saying silent and stop doing what one consider the right thing to do to heal wounds when people demonize Muslims, twist their intention, and act like if they should personally bear responsibility for what happened. Which is what some of the relatives of the victims have done. Empathy does NOT mean agreeing with those people. And if you want to talk about empathy for the relatives of the victims, how about the following relatives: Orlando Rodriguez and Phyllis Schaefer Rodriguez, whose son died in the attack, and said they "support the building of the Islamic community center in lower Manhattan" and "feel that it would honor our son and other victims". Herb Ouida, whose son Todd died, and said: "To say that we're going to condemn a religion and castigate a billion people in the world because they're Muslims, to say that they shouldn't have the ability to pray near the World Trade Center—I don't think that's going to bring people together and cross the divide. Donna O'Connor, whose pregnant daughter died on 9/11, who expressed the opinion that "This building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans ... recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent." Bruce Wallace, whose nephew died as he rushed in to help the victims, who said"the media seems eager to trumpet the feelings of those hurt by the idea of the center. They mostly ignore my feelings and those, like me, who feel the center is an important step for Americans." Terry Rockefeller, whose sister was killed, said: "this doesn't insult her at all. This celebrates the city she loved living in. It is what makes America what we are." Empathy does not mean agreeing with these people. But empathy ibncludes recognizing their feelings. Something that has been missing (from all sides of the debate, may I add) here.

Will talk in a moment about what empathy is, and what it isn't. As for now... Apt description of people who insist that the promoters of the Cordoba Project want to celebrate Islam when they have clearly stated otherwise, don't you think? (and know, I am not saying you made such a claim) Please spare the victimhood bit. No matter how much you want to self-delude yourself otherwise, what you call empathy is nothing more than a call for Muslims to stay silent and act like they personally needed to atone for what occured on 9-11. Feel free to buy it, I won't.

Let,s talk about hypocrisy, indeeed. Like the one displayed by those who say that they don't view all Muslims as being guilty while clearly insisting that Muslims act like if they were. This is exactly what the repeated chant of "show empathy" combined with "Muslims did it" is.

Scroll back and see what I think the connotation is. No need to waste my time repeating it. Nothing that interesting. Most people will bend backward only to some extent to please people who insist they assume guilt for something they didn't do. Because let's not be fooled here. This is exactly what the "be emphatic towards the families of the victims" bit is, even if some manage to delude themselves in believing otherwise. As for my opposition to the project, nothing about being holier-than-thou. It has to do with the fact the project will act as a lightning rod for bigots, hate-mongerers and those who believe Muslims should act as if they were all personally responsible for 9-11. That's why I am critical of most of the opponents of the projects and their motives. But they are free to continue. For one thing, it is entertaining to see them being their own worse enemies over and oer again.

I beg to differ. As far as ignorant statements "the proposed mosque is a celebration of 9-11" wins the prize every day.

LOL

Of course. The screams of "they're calling it Cordoba, it's a symbol of Muslim domination!" had nothing to do with it.

The fact the issue of Tamil refugee claimants have nothing to do with this thread aside, I sued to listen to CFRB a lot. Was good for a hearty laugh most of the time.

One will never know what MLK thought on the issues of gay rights and abortion. Althoguh I can hardly imagine him supporting the second. That's why Alveeda King's co-opting of her uncle's legacy rings hollow. And anybody who believes that he would have agreed with the pro-military tone of the rallye needs to take a second look at what he said and what he wrote. If anything, if he was still alive today, he would likely be near the top of the list of people Beck and Co. deem not patriotic enough.

Have I offended you? I am so sorry. Imagine the audacity. Expressing my disagreemnt with a point of view I dsiagree with. Saying something is wrong when I blieve is wrong. Guess I am better just to put you on ignore, just incase I might offend you just by not agreeing with others on this site. After all, it would interfere with that particular form of censorship of yours which consists of claiming that nobody should take exception to whatever is being said here.

Nope. Merely one who is doing a very good imitation of one. Why even bother asking? You already came up with the answer. Never mind what the promotors of the project may say. No matter what supporters of the project may say, including families of victims of 9-11 and Christian and Jewish religious figures. It's because, deep down, they all are glad that 9-11 happened and they want to rub it in New-Yorker's face, right? Congratulations. You are actually turning me into a supporter.

Like Muslims should waste their time listening or phoning to talk shows considering that most of the people phoning there and quite a few of the hosts spend their time engaging in hate-mongering. Also, considering that most of the time, when ever a Muslim dares to speak against violence of any sort the response will be "it's Muslims who did it". Besides, why should any individuals who have not committed a hateful or criminal act have a special obligation to go out of their way to speak against them?

On the contrary, the Government is very smart. The information is so useless they'll keep asking it, but in such a way that the data will be unreliable, and it will cost more money to do it. But hey, the government is smarted then most everybody who knows about the importance of indormation. But wait a minute, isn't the government a bad thing to start with?

Typical... It is, as we shall never forget, intolerant to be against hateful acts. Let me introduce myself. I'm the kettle and you're the pot, right?

Thank you for pointing out to this very important document. It certainly points to the thinking behind the Separation of Church and State. I would still argue, though, that there is a difference between Jefferson's notion and securalism as it often understood and propagated today, which goes far beyond the separation of Church and State and strives to elimiate religious expression or religion based opinions from the public space (France is an example of this).

The fact that Glenn Beck has no reason to want to inflate the numbers aside, size DOES matters. The numbers at both rallies prove that people on the left size of the spectrum have better things to do than waste their time listening at the rambling of a hate-mongerer (talking about Sharpton).

Actually, name calling would simply be the use of a technique perfected by haters (at both ends of the spectrum). As for my choice of words, it happen to be a matter of facts. The unproven claim that the promoters of the Cordoba project are celebrating 9-11 when they have made clear time and time again that such is not their intend belongs in the toilet, the same as Bin Laden's garbage propaganda. And only ignorance and fear-mongering can explain how the REAL symbolism behind the choice of the name can be missed. But hey, feel free to show images of promoters of the Cordoba project celebrating the 9-11 "victory"

You mean right in the toilet, right. And note that the name of the project was changed because ignoramous and hate-mongerers distorted the symbolism of the initial name. AFter all, it would be incredibly dangerous to have any reference to a city that was, at the peak of its glory, a place of meeting and dialogyue between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

Coming from someone who think the U Government is never wrong no matter what it does... typical laughable non-sense. I think that inflammatory bigoted stements are wrong, and I'll say it. Don't like it, nobody forces you to read it.

Please, feel free to keep making a fool of your self by harping on what is ultimately nothing more than a statistical glitch on a question (religious affiliation) that is not even asked anymore.